and you wonder why our country is broke...

[Dancing Fire]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/cheers-photos-show-embattled-gsa-official-enjoying-wine-and-soak-in-spa-tub-at-m-hotel-during-pre-conference-meeting/

 

[Imdanny]

It. is. not. broke.

We would have to have a whole thread and a very complicated one to discuss this. And wow, that would take a lot of work on my part.

Putting aside even the concept of 'debt' as it relates to a sovereign government, we have a fiat money system. "Money' is printed or created electronically.

There is no shortage of it. We can pay our 'debts' forever.

I'll give some links if anyone wants to read about this stuff, but trust me, it is complicated and the truth has no resemblance to what the corporate media and major political parties are telling us.

I don't have a hot tub, but I wish I could go swimming now. I would find it very relaxing and it wouldn't cost a dime. But you can't go swimming after dark because of sharks.

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

 

[ksinger]

It. is. not. broke.

We would have to have a whole thread and a very complicated one to discuss this. And wow, that would take a lot of work on my part.

Putting aside even the concept of 'debt' as it relates to a sovereign government, we have a fiat money system. "Money' is printed or created electronically.

There is no shortage of it. We can pay our 'debts' forever.

I'll give some links if anyone wants to read about this stuff, but trust me, it is complicated and the truth has no resemblance to what the corporate media and major political parties are telling us.

I don't have a hot tub, but I wish I could go swimming now. I would find it very relaxing and it wouldn't cost a dime. But you can't go swimming after dark because of sharks.

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

Complex indeed! Extremely. While debt going forward IS a problem that needs to be addressed, applying microeconomic thinking to the economic and monetary policies of a country as part of a larger global economy, is a huge mistake. But people do crave the simple solutions over the ones that require quite a bunch of effort to wrap their heads around.

As for the GSA, I honestly have no idea how that stuff got approved. Corruption all the way up the chain is the only way that I can think of, because right now, there still seems to be quite a damper on travel and increased scrutiny of those expenditures. The budgets are taking huge hits. But that WAS 2009, and I guess it depends on what agency you're working for...

 

[movie zombie]

It. is. not. broke.

We would have to have a whole thread and a very complicated one to discuss this. And wow, that would take a lot of work on my part.

Putting aside even the concept of 'debt' as it relates to a sovereign government, we have a fiat money system. "Money' is printed or created electronically.

There is no shortage of it. We can pay our 'debts' forever.

I'll give some links if anyone wants to read about this stuff, but trust me, it is complicated and the truth has no resemblance to what the corporate media and major political parties are telling us.

I don't have a hot tub, but I wish I could go swimming now. I would find it very relaxing and it wouldn't cost a dime. But you can't go swimming after dark because of sharks.

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

 

[ame]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/cheers-photos-show-embattled-gsa-official-enjoying-wine-and-soak-in-spa-tub-at-m-hotel-during-pre-conference-meeting/

lol I do not wonder why at all. I know many many reasons why.

 

[Lula]

I agree with Danny and Ksinger. The federal budget and your household budget are apples and oranges. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[iLander]

I can see the gist of DF's point; the GSA is specifically charged with saving the government money. Their job is to see that our money is spent wisely. Throwing an $800,000 party in the middle of a recession is ridiculous, unconscionable, and insensitive. It goes against their mission.

I think the head of the GSA, Martha Something, deserved to get canned.

I think DF's point is that all the government agencies run around frittering away money on nothing, then that is plain wrong.

I agree with that.

But then I realize that $800K is less than one day of "war" in Iraq. And rebuilding Iraq (WHY did we wander in there in the first place? Wasn't Bin Laden a Saudi Prince?) has cost us $48 BILLION so far. And we're not nearly done.

So worrying about the party (yes, it was wrong) is like clipping a 50¢ coupon by the light of a stack of burning $500 bills . . .

 

[iheartscience]

I can see the gist of DF's point; the GSA is specifically charged with saving the government money. Their job is to see that our money is spent wisely. Throwing an $800,000 party in the middle of a recession is ridiculous, unconscionable, and insensitive. It goes against their mission.

I think the head of the GSA, Martha Something, deserved to get canned.

I think DF's point is that all the government agencies run around frittering away money on nothing, then that is plain wrong.

I agree with that.

But then I realize that $800K is less than one day of "war" in Iraq. And rebuilding Iraq (WHY did we wander in there in the first place? Wasn't Bin Laden a Saudi Prince?) has cost us $48 BILLION so far. And we're not nearly done.

So worrying about the party (yes, it was wrong) is like clipping a 50¢ coupon by the light of a stack of burning $500 bills . . .

to the bolded!

And I agree with the rest, too!

 

[Dancing Fire]

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

i sold the watch to pay my income tax so that these guys can have more fun.

 

[natascha]

It. is. not. broke.

We would have to have a whole thread and a very complicated one to discuss this. And wow, that would take a lot of work on my part.

Putting aside even the concept of 'debt' as it relates to a sovereign government, we have a fiat money system. "Money' is printed or created electronically.

There is no shortage of it. We can pay our 'debts' forever.

I'll give some links if anyone wants to read about this stuff, but trust me, it is complicated and the truth has no resemblance to what the corporate media and major political parties are telling us.

I don't have a hot tub, but I wish I could go swimming now. I would find it very relaxing and it wouldn't cost a dime. But you can't go swimming after dark because of sharks.

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

Imdanny- I am assuming that you understand the concepts of money, debt, foreign exchange rates, inflation, etc but not everyone understands how they work and interact with each other. So I would be cautious of using this type of statements (I am assuming that you are being ironic) because some people may get the wrong impression .

 

[Octavia]

Great post, iLander. These things (GSA, Secret Service scandals etc) make me SO ANGRY because I work for the government and they are so far from the reality for 99.99% of the workforce. A few bad apples making all the rest of us look bad. Want to know what the vast majority of us deal with? At my former agency, the budget for office supplies ran out before Congress allocated any more money. We had no paper. The office manager was bartering with other field offices to exchange things we had that they needed, for things we needed but couldn't buy -- a box of mamilla envelopes for a couple reams of paper, or pens for rubber bands. It got so bad that the boss actually bought a box of paper on her own dime so we could receive faxes. Things are a little better at my new agency, but not much...our paralegal spent months sitting in a chair held together by duct tape because we didn't have funding to order her a new one. THAT's what really happens in the government on a day-to-day basis. So yes, this idiotic GSA thing does really piss me off on many levels, but don't kid yourself that it's a normal occurrence or generally accepted practice (and as an aside, I have no idea how it got approved because anything budget-related is so tightly controlled and we have to account for every cent spent, through multiple levels of review).

 

[zoebartlett]

I can see the gist of DF's point; the GSA is specifically charged with saving the government money. Their job is to see that our money is spent wisely. Throwing an $800,000 party in the middle of a recession is ridiculous, unconscionable, and insensitive. It goes against their mission.

I think the head of the GSA, Martha Something, deserved to get canned.

I think DF's point is that all the government agencies run around frittering away money on nothing, then that is plain wrong.

I agree with that.

But then I realize that $800K is less than one day of "war" in Iraq. And rebuilding Iraq (WHY did we wander in there in the first place? Wasn't Bin Laden a Saudi Prince?) has cost us $48 BILLION so far. And we're not nearly done.

So worrying about the party (yes, it was wrong) is like clipping a 50¢ coupon by the light of a stack of burning $500 bills . . .

to the bolded!

And I agree with the rest, too!

Yup. I see DF's point as well.

 

[canuk-gal]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/cheers-photos-show-embattled-gsa-official-enjoying-wine-and-soak-in-spa-tub-at-m-hotel-during-pre-conference-meeting/

Take heart DF, it was probably two buck chuck.....

 

[movie zombie]

no pity, DF, no pity. if you could afford the watch you can afford the taxes....at least you had the watch to pay with. we had to dip into savings....

the one thing about paying the house off early is that we're losing the interest deduction. we're down to almost all payment going to principal. but then there are those that want to delete the home interest deduction[benefits the middle class, not the 1%] so perhaps we're ahead of that one.

 

[mary poppins]

To add insult to injury, the investigation will probably cost more than the initial expenditure for the GSA conference and associated activities.

 

[minousbijoux]

What I want to know is why, as a public servant, I never EVER got those perks or anything close to it!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

no pity, DF, no pity. if you could afford the watch you can afford the taxes....at least you had the watch to pay with. we had to dip into savings....

the one thing about paying the house off early is that we're losing the interest deduction. we're down to almost all payment going to principal. but then there are those that want to delete the home interest deduction[benefits the middle class, not the 1%] so perhaps we're ahead of that one.

i don't believe in interest deduction B.S. b/c no matter what tax bracket you are in you will still come out on the short end ..i.e. if i pay the bank $100 in interest i'll probably get a return of $30.

so,MZ IYO ...i should go borrow $200k just to get some interest deduction?... a 2.75ct would sure look nice on my finger...

 

[movie zombie]

w/o the interest deduction, dear DF, most americans would never have been able to afford to buy in the first place. its a perk for the middle class AND the banks AND the housing industry from real estate agents to builders, to roofers, etc.

there would be no american dream of homeownership without it. look at the difficulty many here have getting 20% down.......

while you may not believe in the interest deduction, i'm sure there are plenty that do.

personally, i want out in 9 years rather than 30......and it shall be so.

 

[Imdanny]

I agree with Danny and Ksinger. The federal budget and your household budget are apples and oranges. Rinse. Repeat.

Bingo.

 

[Imdanny]

It. is. not. broke.

We would have to have a whole thread and a very complicated one to discuss this. And wow, that would take a lot of work on my part.

Putting aside even the concept of 'debt' as it relates to a sovereign government, we have a fiat money system. "Money' is printed or created electronically.

There is no shortage of it. We can pay our 'debts' forever.

I'll give some links if anyone wants to read about this stuff, but trust me, it is complicated and the truth has no resemblance to what the corporate media and major political parties are telling us.

I don't have a hot tub, but I wish I could go swimming now. I would find it very relaxing and it wouldn't cost a dime. But you can't go swimming after dark because of sharks.

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

Imdanny- I am assuming that you understand the concepts of money, debt, foreign exchange rates, inflation, etc but not everyone understands how they work and interact with each other. So I would be cautious of using this type of statements (I am assuming that you are being ironic) because some people may get the wrong impression .

May I recommend the eminent economist Whose first name escapes me at the moment but whose last name is Galbraith. Not the father but the son. I am absolutely stating a fact. I am not being sarcastic.

 

[Imdanny]

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

i sold the watch to pay my income tax so that these guys can have more fun.

No! tell me you're joking. That's one of the most beautiful watches I've seen. You didn't really sell it, did you?

 

[Dancing Fire]

w/o the interest deduction, dear DF, most americans would never have been able to afford to buy in the first place. its a perk for the middle class AND the banks AND the housing industry from real estate agents to builders, to roofers, etc.

there would be no american dream of homeownership without it. look at the difficulty many here have getting 20% down.......

while you may not believe in the interest deduction, i'm sure there are plenty that do.

personally, i want out in 9 years rather than 30......and it shall be so.

and now for millions of peoples it became "the american nightmare"...

 

[movie zombie]

not for the bankers.....

 

[Dancing Fire]

BTW, you should do a photo spread of that beautiful watch. You're holding out on us!

i sold the watch to pay my income tax so that these guys can have more fun.

No! tell me you're joking. That's one of the most beautiful watches I've seen. You didn't really sell it, did you?

 

[Dancing Fire]

not for the bankers.....

they have a bunch of headaches too... like what to do with all those foreclosed homes, sell it for a loss?

 

[movie zombie]

no, sell for what they were worth in the first place. banks aren't losing $. they got the down payment $ [yes many did put $ down], some monthly payments [in a friend's case 12 years worth of payments], PMI insurance [paid for by the buyer who didn't have 20% to put down], loan servicing fees, $ made when selling the original loan on the market, and in some instances took back property they don't actually own as they can't provide documentation. additionally, they got taxpayer $. another transfer of wealth into their hands. and to top it off they're sitting on a lot of that taxpayer $ and not making loans or refi's as they said they would to get that $. no, no pity for the banker, either.

glad you took a lot of nice pictures of the watch....it is a looker.

 

[ksinger]

not for the bankers.....

they have a bunch of headaches too... like what to do with all those foreclosed homes, sell it for a loss?

Snort. The BANKS didn't hold onto those loans. They made the bad ones, knowing they were bad, then tranched the hell out of them and sold them upstream as A+ grade securities. Hot potato! They knew perfectly well what they were doing. It's been documented out the wazoo ad nauseum.

I know who services my loan (this year anyway, sheesh), I'm not sure who OWNS the note, or how many pieces of it got sold hither and yon. And some banks, like Bank of America, are so venal/disorganized/have NO idea who owns what, that they tried to foreclose on homes that were paid OFF. Insane.

I'm not wasting many boo hoos on behalf of the poor banks, DF. I'll leave that silliness to you.

And I don't give a rat's patoot about losing the interest deduction. Twenty months and counting! I can hardly wait! One more good loan off BoA's balance sheet, and proportionately more bad loans left. They didn't make the loan to me, and they don't deserve to have it. Serves 'em right.

 

[Dancing Fire]

no, sell for what they were worth in the first place. banks aren't losing $. they got the down payment $ [yes many did put $ down], some monthly payments [in a friend's case 12 years worth of payments], PMI insurance [paid for by the buyer who didn't have 20% to put down], loan servicing fees, $ made when selling the original loan on the market, and in some instances took back property they don't actually own as they can't provide documentation. additionally, they got taxpayer $. another transfer of wealth into their hands. and to top it off they're sitting on a lot of that taxpayer $ and not making loans or refi's as they said they would to get that $. no, no pity for the banker, either.

but don't forget many of these foreclosed homes only worth 60% of its purchased price,plus most of these people probably haven't made a payment for at least 6-9 months.

say i bought a $500k home in 2006 with a 5% d/p. i borrowed $475K and now that same house only worth $275K so i decided to walk away.i don't think my bank would be very happy.

 

[movie zombie]

contract law, DF, contract law. you signed a paper and so did they. the paper specifies that if you walk away they take the house. no one forced them to sign that contract. in fact, they got your down, the PMI, whatever monthly payments you made, sold the loan on the market, charged loan service fees AND they got the real estate....as well as taxpayer $ because the supposedly took such a beating. sweet deal. and now they sell the home to a speculator. they did not lose $, DF. remember what PMI is for in the first place? pays the loan if you default. now the problem is if the PMI groups didn't keep enough $ in their coffers but that's another story.......

a friend of mine made payments for 12 years. unfortunately, she had an ARM loan. she was trying to work with them for a refi but another "arm" of the bank decided it was easier to sell the property to a speculator rather than work with her doing the paperwork for a refi and they get to keep the taxpayer $ despite the fact it was meant for those in exactly her circumstances.

no, DF, no pity for the banks. the transfer of wealth is almost complete.

remember: the bank loaned knowing prices were inflated and knowing they'd make $. they loved making that $. and now they have your property. what's not to love about this?! they can pretend that they took a loss and people buy into it. shell game, DF, shell game.

 

[Dancing Fire]

no, DF, no pity for the banks. the transfer of wealth is almost complete.

remember: the bank loaned knowing prices were inflated and knowing they'd make $. they loved making that $. and now they have your property. what's not to love about this?! they can pretend that they took a loss and people buy into it. shell game, DF, shell game.

i feel sorry for the small local banks whom didn't get much help.