Am I being unreasonable - DH wants to return to Ireland

[movie zombie]

great post, smith!

my husband found this book to be very Very VERY helpful:

Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward

it is available on amazon.

oddly, his step sister recommended it, he read it on a flight home from AU, stewardess noticed it and said she needed help with "the issue", and he gave the book to her!

 

[Circe]

My theory is that it's cyclical - that it's the people who were neglected as children who become very me-me-me who then have no boundaries with their kids (which makes them regret their children's emotional needs, thus starting the cycle all anew). It's like they're demanding from their children what their own parents could never give them, whether it be unconditional love or a sense of control over their universe or what-have-you. Which makes me feel very, VERY conscious of how I'll need to be careful interacting with my own kids if I want to break that cycle in my own family ....

 

[distracts]

Smith, you must just have a lot more faith in people than I do to think that everyone will stand up for what they want and everyone will eventually realize the madness of a manipulator. I have seen far too many people fold and live miserables lives trying to make other people happy to have that faith. I admire that you have it though. And I do hope mlk's husband just needs a little encouragement to realize he is happy to compromise but not to move back to Ireland.

I also think it's silly that his parents don't want to move to Australia. I mean, if the MOST important thing is that this one son takes care of him, why not make it easy and move to him?

 

[Boatluvr]

I'm going to weigh in from the other side - not to criticize the OP but because many people here have been relating their personal stories for different perspectives. Two years ago my oldest son was on deployment and his wife was six months pregnant with their second child. He begged me to go and live with her and help her - he even put it as 'take my place'. Well, I love my son and I loved my grandson so I moved in with her. It really backfired on everyone. My DIL treated me like an indentured servant - really. I never had any privacy and very little time to myself, even very little time to take my mother to the doctor or other 'personal' matters. She turned into a complete and total nutcase. She's obsessive/compulsive and passive aggressive and only became more so (again, no reference to OP). I lived with her for six months during which time I paid for her maid (2 X a month), my own groceries and provided 24/7 care and feeding of the two kids. The baby, after he was born, was so small he was in the zero percent of his age bracket as far as height/weight were concerned - she just would not sit still long enough to breast feed him. She would 'go shopping' and disappear for 14 hours - really! She would not take her cell phone and/or never charge it. I tried to tell my son I was really concerned about her behavior - he just did not want to believe me. Three months before he came home I moved out and I was a nervous wreck. I worried about the kids constantly. But he had called me and apologized BUT the DIL did not want me living with her anymore!

I have seen my son once in almost two years. I have not seen my grandsons. He told me it's his job to support his wife - even if she is a bit crazy (his words). I have accepted this but only because I am lucky enough to have two other sons and three other grandchildren. It hurts my heart to think that I can't have a relationship with my son and especially my grandsons. Not all MILs are manipulative. I've completely backed off but I continue to send cards to the kids and my son. I don't even know if they get them, but I hope so.

As someone else said there are always two sides to a story - and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Again, these comments are not directed at the OP - just comments from the other side of the fence.

 

[Smith1942]

Smith, you must just have a lot more faith in people than I do to think that everyone will stand up for what they want and everyone will eventually realize the madness of a manipulator. I have seen far too many people fold and live miserables lives trying to make other people happy to have that faith. I admire that you have it though. And I do hope mlk's husband just needs a little encouragement to realize he is happy to compromise but not to move back to Ireland.

I also think it's silly that his parents don't want to move to Australia. I mean, if the MOST important thing is that this one son takes care of him, why not make it easy and move to him?

I don't think I said that I believe in general everyone will stand up for what they want. I said that people don't do MASSIVE things like having a baby that they do not want solely to please others, or move across the globe when it's the last thing they want to do. I am sure that many people make smaller compromises to ensure family harmony - example, neither my husband nor I wanted a visit of three weeks long from my parents this summer, but we felt sorry for them with what they're going through and gave them a nice holiday. Yes, people can manipulate in a myriad of smaller ways (like which relative holidays are spent with) but I find it very hard to believe that a person who actively hates the idea of moving across the globe, a person who considers it suicide to do so, would actually pack up their entire life and move across the globe when they hate hate hate the idea. I believe that common sense dictates that after much strife and grief, the likeliest outcome is that the manipulator's mask comes off, not that someone would make that kind of drastic cross-global move when they call it suicide to do so. It's when those kinds of outrageous, drastic, change-your-life-beyond-belief demands are made, that true colours are revealed, so bizarre and so ridiculous are the demands. I'm talking about the really big stuff here. I can't really imagine demands bigger than having a baby you don't want to please the rest of the family, or making that kind of life-altering cross-global move. But yes, I'm sure some people make sacrifices somewhat smaller, like having a relative move in with them (still big, but not as big as those other two demands).

What kinds of things have you seen others do, in response to pressure? Seriously, I'm interested! I can't imagine someone having a baby they don't want in any way, shape or form, to please their MIL! I'm interested to see how far these demands have gotten these people, genuinely.

 

[Smith1942]

I'm going to weigh in from the other side - not to criticize the OP but because many people here have been relating their personal stories for different perspectives. Two years ago my oldest son was on deployment and his wife was six months pregnant with their second child. He begged me to go and live with her and help her - he even put it as 'take my place'. Well, I love my son and I loved my grandson so I moved in with her. It really backfired on everyone. My DIL treated me like an indentured servant - really. I never had any privacy and very little time to myself, even very little time to take my mother to the doctor or other 'personal' matters. She turned into a complete and total nutcase. She's obsessive/compulsive and passive aggressive and only became more so (again, no reference to OP). I lived with her for six months during which time I paid for her maid (2 X a month), my own groceries and provided 24/7 care and feeding of the two kids. The baby, after he was born, was so small he was in the zero percent of his age bracket as far as height/weight were concerned - she just would not sit still long enough to breast feed him. She would 'go shopping' and disappear for 14 hours - really! She would not take her cell phone and/or never charge it. I tried to tell my son I was really concerned about her behavior - he just did not want to believe me. Three months before he came home I moved out and I was a nervous wreck. I worried about the kids constantly. But he had called me and apologized BUT the DIL did not want me living with her anymore!

I have seen my son once in almost two years. I have not seen my grandsons. He told me it's his job to support his wife - even if she is a bit crazy (his words). I have accepted this but only because I am lucky enough to have two other sons and three other grandchildren. It hurts my heart to think that I can't have a relationship with my son and especially my grandsons. Not all MILs are manipulative. I've completely backed off but I continue to send cards to the kids and my son. I don't even know if they get them, but I hope so.

As someone else said there are always two sides to a story - and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Again, these comments are not directed at the OP - just comments from the other side of the fence.

Boatluvr, that's an awful story. There's no doubt that some DILs can be dreadful, too. It's wrong to keep grandparents and grandchildren apart (not counting instances where the grandparent is neglectful/drunk/toxic etc).

While we are telling the OP in this thread that she and her family should not have to move across the globe to Ireland to satisfy the in-good-health MIL when they consider such a move to be suicide, equally we are not saying that the MIL shouldn't have a relationship with her grandchild. Somewhere in the thread it says that the husband goes back to Ireland for a few weeks a year but has been reluctant to go for some time. I believe many of us, as a compromise, have encouraged lengthy visits with the three of them so they can all see each other with no unwanted uprootings occurring. I'd never advocate keeping grandparents and grandchildren apart - because when they're more grown up, and become curious about where they came from, the children won't thank you for it.

Anyway, my sister does her part to keep her children away from their grandparents, too. It's heartbreaking. And, she acts as if her MIL doesn't exist. I definitely think there are some dreadful DILs out there. My sister has a son. I hope she gets landed with a selfish DIL then she'll know what it feels like to be kept from her grandchildren!

Can you write or email your son, or connect with him on Facebook or Twitter?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think it's important not to get sucked into other people's issues. Even when it is your spouse. Your husband's unhealthy relationship with his mom is like any other self-destructive behavior. Drug addiction. Alcoholism. Emeshment. The task for you is the same: Don't be codependent. Don't protect them from the consequences of their actions. Refuse to participate in self-destructive behaviors. Go to therapy on your own to learn the right ways to cope and behave. But above all, don't participate in the delusion and move to Ireland. As if that will change anything? If your husband lives there, the demands will just change, they will not go away. If he will not get therapy, then you need to. This is a big deal and you need to face it head on and find a solution for you and your child, and hopefully your husband will follow suit.

 

[movie zombie]

also a good post, Dreamer!
and to follow that up, I found this book helpful when my hubby was reading "his":

Toxic In-Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage by Susan Forward

 

[mlk]

Hi everyone sorry I have been MIA but have had a teething non-sleeping baby so haven't had a second to post responses to everyone.

We have no real resolution to the issue. We had another blowup on Sunday night about the issue where DH told me he is not going to Ireland for a holiday any time soon so to go ahead and organize our son's christening and first birthday here. Other than that no real resolution or much constructive discussion.

I think it was Smith who said that my DH doesn't want to live in Ireland that is correct but he really seems to have so much guilt that I do think he is really considering it. On the other hand he is trying to organize curtains in our house, put in a building application for outdoor stairs etc so nothing really makes sense at the moment.

I do not consider that my marriage is in grave danger but I do take into account the comments not to have a second child until this issue is sorted. The problem is that this has been an underlying issue for about 8 years now and even when we say it is sorted it always raises its ugly head again.

Dreamer you were exactly right in comparing this behavior to that of an addict. The deception, lies, secret conversations and telling everyone what they want to hear is exactly what an addict does - although I have no personal experience on that front.

Boatluvr I'm sorry what has transpired with your son and DIL. She sounds just horrible and I'm sure your son deals with a lot more than what he lets on to you. I hope somehow you are able to keep your relationship up with your son and grandchild.

And absolutely I know that some MILs are wonderful. I really wish I had one of those as without my mother around I miss having that mother daughter relationship. I am lucky to have a wonderful godmother though and she has really played the role of a grandparent to my son. I also wish I had a closer relationship with my sister in laws (not that we have any problems) I guess as I don't have any sisters it would've been nice to have one type of that relationship, but they are all so much older than me 15-20 years and in a much different place in life.

Will update again once more comes to light. In the meantime I am throwing myself into organizing the best first birthday party for my son. He is just the most lovely little boy.

 

[aljdewey]

We have no real resolution to the issue. We had another blowup on Sunday night about the issue where DH told me he is not going to Ireland for a holiday any time soon so to go ahead and organize our son's christening and first birthday here. Other than that no real resolution or much constructive discussion.

I think it was Smith who said that my DH doesn't want to live in Ireland that is correct but he really seems to have so much guilt that I do think he is really considering it. On the other hand he is trying to organize curtains in our house, put in a building application for outdoor stairs etc so nothing really makes sense at the moment.
And absolutely I know that some MILs are wonderful. I really wish I had one of those as without my mother around I miss having that mother daughter relationship. I am lucky to have a wonderful godmother though and she has really played the role of a grandparent to my son. I also wish I had a closer relationship with my sister in laws (not that we have any problems) I guess as I don't have any sisters it would've been nice to have one type of that relationship, but they are all so much older than me 15-20 years and in a much different place in life.

Will update again once more comes to light. In the meantime I am throwing myself into organizing the best first birthday party for my son. He is just the most lovely little boy.

Honestly......I could be way wrong about this, but........

You said in your initial post and again in this post that he's resisting going home even for a holiday. To me, this doesn't sound like someone who is about to pick up and move there if he can't even tolerate a holiday there.

What it sounds like to me is someone trying to avoid being in his mother's presence because he doesn't want to be pressured into something he doesn't really want to do.....move there. The actions you've described above--curtains, stairs, etc--sound to me like someone planning to stay where you are.

To me, his actions speak volumes. He doesn't want to go, but he just doesn't have the chutzpah to actually be frank with his bullying mother.

In your shoes, I'd assume it's business as usual (living in Australia) until *he* initiates a conversation with you otherwise. That would be the time to cross the bridge and sort things out. Right now, you seem to have what you want (staying put) by default, and the rest of it is just his frustration/mommy issues. It's up to him to work that out himself. If you get pressure from in-laws about why you're not visiting, I'd deflect them to chat with hub about desired visit arrangements. If he's avoiding them, let him deal with it.

 

[perry]

mlk:

Here is a guys perspective:

1) You are not being unreasonable. He chose to marry you and raise a family in your country.

2) Your marriage is in fact in grave danger; and you need to nip the issues now before they get worse (and they will get worse - and potentially much much worse to the point that you may not be able to repair the damage if you do nothing). Your husbands described behavior and feeling guilty is a clear sign to me (I may understand how guys think and react better than you). I believe you are trying to convince yourself that it is not really a problem - because really facing up to issues in any relationship and resolving them is not easy. But, it is a lot easier, and cheaper, than divorce and the fallout from that.

I really suggest that you and your husband really need to start working out issues with a good marriage counselor. It is also likely that you cannot tell your husband that perhaps he needs some help (counseling). What you can do is tell him that you need some help working out some issues on how you are reacting to him; so that you can be a better wife - and you would like him to come along and tell his side to the counselor so that the counselor can better help you (and then let the counselor take it from there).

Also, you need to understand that for counseling to really work - that you also have to be willing to change. You both will change; and if the counseling is done right you will grow much closer together and learn to communicate much better.

Of course, the problem is finding a good counselor: In the US the averages are that only 1 out of 3 counselors you talk to is the right one for your situation.

I wish you the best with this.

Perry