Affordable Care Act Upheld By Supreme Court

What a relief for several of my family members and friends with children with health issues who would have otherwise been uninsurable. The ACA isn't perfect, but I'm glad it's been upheld. Hopefully in the future we'll move to single payer like the rest of the civilized world, but until then, I'll take the ACA.

As you said, Thing2, it's not a perfect system, but I'm glad it was upheld. The President must be doing the happy dance.

for those that do not like the decision, i offer the following comments i posted on a very conservative forum and for which i expect to be severely flamed [hopefully, there and not here]:

>the "tax" is only paid if one does not have insurance.
most have insurance with their employer so won't be effected.
only 6% will be effected because they are w/o insurance.
pretty much forcing people to take care of themselves by making sure they are insured and not a burden to the rest of us.
one still has the right to not buy the insurance, but not the right to be a burden to me and mine for that decision: irresponsibility tax!
no worse than being forced to buy accident auto insurance, imo.<

personally, i'm in favor of single-payer but this is better than nothing.

Why is everyone so pissed about paying taxes? We all want everything for f'ing free, well how the f do you propose that be paid for??? We're in a hole bec Bush cut taxes then took us into a war we never belonged in to begin with. When Clinton was in office we had a MASSIVE surplus. And yet somehow Obama trying to fix this dump and make us not be in a hole for all the crap America as a whole demands they get for free, without having to earn it, makes him evil. The VAST majority of people in this country have this ridiculous sense of unwarranted entitlement, that they deserve to have everything for free, but someone else should pay for it so they don't have to ....If we pay our fair share all the way up the income rungs, we have better everything.

But then you have to consider that Romney and his friends (friends in the term of the richest populous) set up offshore accounts and worked the system so they could avoid taxes on millions of dollars in income? Why should being rich exempt you from anything and why should you be entitled to more than anyone else, just because you're rich? Why is everyone else a burden, besides you? Yknow that if everyone "beneath you" dies from lack of health care and income, there's no one left to keep your stores open, manufacture the crap you buy / get for free from designers, pump the gas into your limo....etc.

Terrific news! I am another who hopes to see our country move towards a single payer system with supplemental private insurance (as they have in France) and will happily pay more taxes to fund it. The current act is not enough, IMO, but it's a big step in the right direction. Well done, Supreme Court!

I am so glad for this, especially for my best friend who will now be able to get medical coverage!

I sat with a group of people recently. Each a good thirty pounds overweight, each smoking a cigarette. Wine glass in the other hand. They talked about how health care is a "right" and how people shouldn't have to pay for it.

I couldn't show my feelings.

The more of this in America, coupled with higher and higher taxes to pay for it, I think it's time for my husband to go part time and we move to Nevada. Tired of paying for everyone.

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 10:17 am:I sat with a group of people recently. Each a good thirty pounds overweight, each smoking a cigarette. Wine glass in the other hand. They talked about how health care is a "right" and how people shouldn't have to pay for it.

I couldn't show my feelings.

The more of this in America, coupled with higher and higher taxes to pay for it, I think it's time for my husband to go part time and we move to Nevada. Tired of paying for everyone.

The solution to this is education and PREVENTION. Our medical system doesn't focus on health and prevention - it profits on illness.

And we should have to pay for it. In single payer systems, healthcare is a right of citizenship and is paid for by everyone via taxes. Those who are insured pay for it now, and in a single payer system we'd pay for it still.

And what's wrong with wine, lol?!

Don't repudiate my feelings. I said I am tired of paying and I AM and I'm not the only one.

I have always wondered - why do people groan and moan so much about taxes? Taxes mean that you have what I consider to be a decent society, civilized. Medical coverage. Libraries. Decent roads. Education. Birth control. Care for the disabled. Support for vets. Facilities for stray animals. Parks. And so on and so forth. If it means forking over 20-22% of my pay, as I do in Australia, so be it. The standard of living in Perth is phenomenal. I'd like to see the standard of living in my hometown brought up to that level, but it seems that people are so bloody TIGHT that they don't want one penny of their income to go anywhere that they don't PERSONALLY use.

And even then - the most vocal opponents of any sort of social services are nearly always people who have actually outright collected them themselves! They've enjoyed the benefits of Pell Grants, or gotten WIC, or collected food stamps, secured the pension -- but what sort of hooker expects them to help chip in for their birth control, dammit?!

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 10:35 am:Don't repudiate my feelings. I said I am tired of paying and I AM and I'm not the only one.

How did I repudiate your feelings?

Written by justginger » June 28th, 2012, 10:35 am: If it means forking over 20-22% of my pay, as I do in Australia, so be it.

I like that. I'd go for that. Like I mentioned, if my husband went part time and we moved to Nevada, that might be the outcome and I am ok with it. But for now, that number you quote is not an option and is scheduled to get MUCH worse come Jan 1, 2013 here in America.

And vendors of diamonds telling me I should pay more (not you) PISS ME OFF. Lots of luck with that strategy.

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 10:43 am:

Written by justginger » June 28th, 2012, 10:35 am: If it means forking over 20-22% of my pay, as I do in Australia, so be it.

And vendors of diamonds telling me I should pay more (not you) PISS ME OFF. Lots of luck with that strategy.

Ok, seriously, I don't even understand what this means? Why so much anger? Do you mean that my opinion is less valid because I sell diamonds rather than that of a consumer who buys diamonds, even if it's the same opinion? I'm very confused. And when did I say you should pay more? More than what? I have no clue what you're paying or not paying. I have an opinion on the type of healthcare system I'd like to see in our country, and it happens to maybe disagree with your opinion (I'm not sure). It's just a conversation.

Anyway, not sure what I said to offend you. I really don't understand.

Written by justginger » June 28th, 2012, 10:35 am:I have always wondered - why do people groan and moan so much about taxes? Taxes mean that you have what I consider to be a decent society, civilized. Medical coverage. Libraries. Decent roads. Education. Birth control. Care for the disabled. Support for vets. Facilities for stray animals. Parks. And so on and so forth. If it means forking over 20-22% of my pay, as I do in Australia, so be it. The standard of living in Perth is phenomenal. I'd like to see the standard of living in my hometown brought up to that level, but it seems that people are so bloody TIGHT that they don't want one penny of their income to go anywhere that they don't PERSONALLY use.

And even then - the most vocal opponents of any sort of social services are nearly always people who have actually outright collected them themselves! They've enjoyed the benefits of Pell Grants, or gotten WIC, or collected food stamps, secured the pension -- but what sort of hooker expects them to help chip in for their birth control, dammit?!

Oh, people grumble about things in Australia too. They pay the taxes, and then pay more to get private healthcare since they don't get attention fast enough with public healthcare.

The one thing you have in life is your health. If you don't, nothing else matters, so I am all for everyone being able to have help with their health.

I agree, JG! i find the healthcare debate in the US one of the strangest things, i dont know how to word this without offending this predominantly american forum, but i just cant understand it! I guess i cant relate to the liberty/freedom rhetoric that permeates the discussion of tax/laws etc in the states. All the other first world nations in the world have universal healthcare, but America thinks its their god given right not to?!

Thankfully i dont have to care as its not my family or friends that could die prematurely because they're not wealthy enough or 'insurable'

Perhaps you earn more than I do, Beacon? I honestly find it impossible to believe that anyone would, at identical income levels, pay more tax in the States than Australia.

Yes, they groan TGal, but not really. DH has private insurance because you get stung with another Medicare levy if you're over 30 and don't have private - but it's around $600/year. Plus the $500-600 worth of taxes he pays for the system in general. I'm relatively sure that's less than my father paid for his health care, even with his employer making contributions.

I don't know what the taxes are like in Australia, so can't really say. Here in America we have a top rate at 35%, scheduled to go to 39.5% on Jan 1, 2013. Plus since I live in California, the rate here is 10% at the top end, which you have to pay in addition to the Federal tax. Then there is a "social security tax" which varies a bit these days, but is around 5% of your earnings up til you earn about 108K. There is an additional "Medicare tax" on all your wages of 1.45%. Then in my State, there is a sales tax on things you purchase, around 8.5% of the price.

So it does all all up, I must say.

So maybe it's better if my family does not work so hard.

Written by justginger » June 28th, 2012, 11:01 am:Yes, they groan TGal, but not really. DH has private insurance because you get stung with another Medicare levy if you're over 30 and don't have private - but it's around $600/year. Plus the $500-600 worth of taxes he pays for the system in general. I'm relatively sure that's less than my father paid for his health care, even with his employer making contributions.

They groan because they are good at it, haha!

I'd have to ask TGuy about it to understand it more...but it's kind of weird to me that it's healthcare for all, but by the way, if you are over a certain age, you need to buy private or we'll ding ya.

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 11:04 am:I don't know what the taxes are like in Australia, so can't really say. Here in America we have a top rate at 35%, scheduled to go to 39.5% on Jan 1, 2013. Plus since I live in California, the rate here is 10% at the top end, which you have to pay in addition to the Federal tax. Then there is a "social security tax" which varies a bit these days, but is around 5% of your earnings up til you earn about 108K. There is an additional "Medicare tax" on all your wages of 1.45%. Then in my State, there is a sales tax on things you purchase, around 8.5% of the price.

So it does all all up, I must say.

So maybe it's better if my family does not work so hard.

Beacon
i feel your pain...

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 10:35 am:Don't repudiate my feelings. I said I am tired of paying and I AM and I'm not the only one.

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 11:04 am:I don't know what the taxes are like in Australia, so can't really say. Here in America we have a top rate at 35%, scheduled to go to 39.5% on Jan 1, 2013. Plus since I live in California, the rate here is 10% at the top end, which you have to pay in addition to the Federal tax. Then there is a "social security tax" which varies a bit these days, but is around 5% of your earnings up til you earn about 108K. There is an additional "Medicare tax" on all your wages of 1.45%. Then in my State, there is a sales tax on things you purchase, around 8.5% of the price.

So it does all all up, I must say.

So maybe it's better if my family does not work so hard.

Beacon its kind of misleading to talk about top rates - higher income earners can afford to pay more after all!

On the east coast of Aust you're looking at a base rate of about 33%, though most would fall in the 37% category and quite a big number would fall in the highest tax bracket, at 45% - plus we have a 10% sales tax as well that is built into pricing of goods and services. And yet there's free healthcare and wages and the standard (and cost) of living is higher!

In Canada i pay pretty low income tax (about 32-36 i think) and only 5% sales tax, but healthcare is still free (thanks to oil mostly)...

We do pay high rates, so for my family it is not misleading. At a certain point, based on the new taxes under consideration, we will work for half wages on the top income. My feeling is that I would rather see more of my husband than only receive half wages for 100% of the work.

The tax rates I mentioned are not including the new increases that will come to pay for the ObamaCare package. That is a new and extra cost. It will affect a number of people, not just the highest earners. For example, in America many employers offer a "flexible benefits plan", where you can put money in, pre tax, to pay for out of pocket health expenses that are not covered by your insurance, (things like co pays, eye glasses, etc). At present a worker can put in $5000. Under ObamaCare that will now drop to $2500. This not a hand out, this is money that you earned, but it will be used for healtcare and not taxed. It's very helpful to families who work but their insurance doesn't cover everything (and no one's insurance does, except Pres. Obama's!)

BTW, Ginger mentioned that in Australia she was only paying 20-22% of income, not 37%? So how's that?

Written by ame » June 28th, 2012, 9:54 am:Why is everyone so pissed about paying taxes? We all want everything for f'ing free, well how the f do you propose that be paid for??? We're in a hole bec Bush cut taxes then took us into a war we never belonged in to begin with. When Clinton was in office we had a MASSIVE surplus. And yet somehow Obama trying to fix this dump and make us not be in a hole for all the crap America as a whole demands they get for free, without having to earn it, makes him evil. The VAST majority of people in this country have this ridiculous sense of unwarranted entitlement, that they deserve to have everything for free, but someone else should pay for it so they don't have to ....If we pay our fair share all the way up the income rungs, we have better everything.

But then you have to consider that Romney and his friends (friends in the term of the richest populous) set up offshore accounts and worked the system so they could avoid taxes on millions of dollars in income? Why should being rich exempt you from anything and why should you be entitled to more than anyone else, just because you're rich? Why is everyone else a burden, besides you? Yknow that if everyone "beneath you" dies from lack of health care and income, there's no one left to keep your stores open, manufacture the crap you buy / get for free from designers, pump the gas into your limo....etc.

that is the problem with today's society,entitlement,entitlement and more entitlement.

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 11:57 am:We do pay high rates, so for my family it is not misleading. At a certain point, based on the new taxes under consideration, we will work for half wages on the top income. My feeling is that I would rather see more of my husband than only receive half wages for 100% of the work.

The tax rates I mentioned are not including the new increases that will come to pay for the ObamaCare package. That is a new and extra cost. It will affect a number of people, not just the highest earners. For example, in America many employers offer a "flexible benefits plan", where you can put money in, pre tax, to pay for out of pocket health expenses that are not covered by your insurance, (things like co pays, eye glasses, etc). At present a worker can put in $5000. Under ObamaCare that will now drop to $2500. This not a hand out, this is money that you earned, but it will be used for healtcare and not taxed. It's very helpful to families who work but their insurance doesn't cover everything (and no one's insurance does, except Pres. Obama's!)

BTW, Ginger mentioned that in Australia she was only paying 20-22% of income, not 37%? So how's that?

Honestly im not sure! Ginger is in WA and i wonder if the tax might be different? hopefully she can chime in! for sure on the east coast where im from tax is 32% once you're over 37k which is a relatively low wage on the east coast of aust (probably part time workers or perhaps servers/shop assistants - though a lot of retail/hospitality workers would make more than that a year). Of course it might be pro-rated because the first xx amount of $ you earn are tax free...

Rather, my point is, even with high tax the standard of living is higher than in the US. Probably Scandinavia is a better example, astronomical taxes but excellent standards of living and healthcare. I guess i just dont see the issue, high earners are high earners and low earners are low earners in both systems!

but each to their own, im just lucky to have free healthcare where i live.

I'm british so I don't really have the right to make much comment - 'cept that I can't understand how this could not be a good thing.

I heard a ranting guy on BBC Radio 4 news, in a report on this passing, saying it was a tragedy and that it was communism on US soil. Just seems so odd the people wouldn't want to pay tax for a fairer a society. Someone else said it was a blessing because it meant that, for example, the elderly wouldn't have to choose between meds or rent. If that really is a choice that is facing some citizens well.... in this day and age, in a developed country....

My sister lives in the UK. It's interesting. She has to pay the NHS, but she buys private insurance too. When she needs anything serious done she goes to a private doctor and pays them right there. I don't even think that gets insurance reimbursement. However, she doesn't have to wait for an appointment and she says the skill levels are very good. But she's rich enuf to afford it. Seems like a two tier system?

Anyhow in America we currently spend 17% of our GDP on healthcare, compared with Britain which spends 8.5% of GDP on healthcare. America spends more per person on health care than any other country in the world. By a huge amount.

You'd have to be here to see it in action. So much fraud in the government reimbursed healthcare. So many people expecting infinite medical help, for free, no matter how badly they take care of themselves.

My brother is a healthcare provider for low income people. It really changed him. He used to be quite liberal/leftist. Now he is totally tthe other way. The stories are amazing.

Written by Dancing Fire » June 28th, 2012, 12:04 pm:

Written by ame » June 28th, 2012, 9:54 am:Why is everyone so pissed about paying taxes? We all want everything for f'ing free, well how the f do you propose that be paid for??? We're in a hole bec Bush cut taxes then took us into a war we never belonged in to begin with. When Clinton was in office we had a MASSIVE surplus. And yet somehow Obama trying to fix this dump and make us not be in a hole for all the crap America as a whole demands they get for free, without having to earn it, makes him evil. The VAST majority of people in this country have this ridiculous sense of unwarranted entitlement, that they deserve to have everything for free, but someone else should pay for it so they don't have to ....If we pay our fair share all the way up the income rungs, we have better everything.

But then you have to consider that Romney and his friends (friends in the term of the richest populous) set up offshore accounts and worked the system so they could avoid taxes on millions of dollars in income? Why should being rich exempt you from anything and why should you be entitled to more than anyone else, just because you're rich? Why is everyone else a burden, besides you? Yknow that if everyone "beneath you" dies from lack of health care and income, there's no one left to keep your stores open, manufacture the crap you buy / get for free from designers, pump the gas into your limo....etc.

that is the problem with today's society,entitlement,entitlement and more entitlement.

Says the guy whose wife works for the government.

I do believe people are entitled to healthcare, as it's a basic human right. And I do think people should have to contribute towards this care, via their taxes.

I think this whole thread can some up American society in general. It seems to be split in half.

One side is very upset that their hard earned money goes to help others who they feel take advantage of it and act as if they are entitled to it. The believe in picking yourself up by your bootstraps and that you can only rely on yourself. They want their money to stay with them and are especially annoyed when they here stories of people abusing the system.

One side believes that shit happens in life and they want something to fall back on if it happens to them or their loved ones. They also value collective well being over the individual. They do not think the great quality of life discrepancy that is widening is good. They think of course those who work harder should reap those rewards, but not at the cost of other people's suffering. They are more likely to see the benefits of what their taxes pay and not feel resentful of paying them.

It is taken my entire life of 29 years as an American to figure this out. This applies to healthcare, social programs, student loans, abortion/birth control, etc...Some think you have just have to deal with the consequences of your actions and/or the luck you were handed in life and others would prefer society help those that face hard times. Invdividual vs. collective.

Of course never discount the pyschological effects of fear and religion in American politics as well.

Written by Beacon » June 28th, 2012, 11:04 am:I don't know what the taxes are like in Australia, so can't really say. Here in America we have a top rate at 35%, scheduled to go to 39.5% on Jan 1, 2013. Plus since I live in California, the rate here is 10% at the top end, which you have to pay in addition to the Federal tax. Then there is a "social security tax" which varies a bit these days, but is around 5% of your earnings up til you earn about 108K. There is an additional "Medicare tax" on all your wages of 1.45%. Then in my State, there is a sales tax on things you purchase, around 8.5% of the price.

So it does all all up, I must say.

So maybe it's better if my family does not work so hard.

The current tax rates in the US are at very low levels compared to previous years. Additionally, the US has a much lower tax burden than many other industrialized nations. The trade off is that the other industrialized nations get a lot more for their higher taxes, including free health care, free college, great maternity leave, etc. I would happily pay higher taxes for their benefits. As kenny says, people vary.

I doubt working less hard in order to pay less taxes is truly advantageous, but I'd love to see the math if you have it.