Advice, Please?

[Haven]

****EDITED to protect the innocent****

Hi, everyone. I need your advice. Pretty please with an AVC on top?

Okay, here goes:

Someone I love has a bad habit of talking AT people for extending periods of time. She does this on the phone and in-person. Even when I call her to say something or ask a question, I will often end up listening to her speak for 20 minutes before I can even get a word in. And if you do get a word in, it's pretty much ignored.

This hurts me because I'll have something I really want to share and get feedback or support, and I won't get it.

What would you do? Please share your ideas.

(Sorry I took out so much info. I'm not sure who reads PS.)

 

[Haven]

OH, I am so sorry for the very long post. Maybe the apple doesn't fall as far from the tree as I'd like to think.

 

[Gypsy]

Yes, you and your sister both should plan a mom's day out/intervention and talk to her. Record a conversation or two if you think she's going to hit denial-- But I think that's an extreme. She'll get upset but if you put it the way you did here I think you'll be okay.

 

[Circe]

Hm. I really, really, really wish I could think of a solution to offer you - because then I could apply it to my own life, as my dad does the exact same thing. But unfortunately, when I've tried gently mentioning this to him, he's been receptive ... then gone off on a 40 minute long story about how he used to know someone who did the exact same thing and how it hurt his feelings, etc., etc., etc. SO, YEAH.

I have had some success on related ground with people my own age, though: I don't know if that's because we have more equal relationships, or if it's because they're young enough to be flexible, or if it's not a status or age thing at all, and some people are just ... better ... about this sort of thing than others.

I think I'd try raising the issue with your mom nicely by saying something like, "Ma, the other day when I told you about my co-worker and you didn't respond, it sort of hurt my feelings - could you tell me why you did that?" and go from there: not accusatory, just sort of figuring out what her thought process was. If it turned out that her thought process was as straightforward as free-associating and not really thinking about how you were feeling ... I'm not sure how effective an intervention would be; if she's reached her age functioning that way, it might just be the way she is. But if it turns out that she thought she was easing your pain by commiserating and it just came out wrong, maybe you could gently mention that that energy could be redirected towards a more hands-on approach without causing her interlocutor any discomfort whatsoever ....

 

[Kaleigh]

She sounds like many older adults... They want to talk about themselves. They don't talk to many people in their day to day routines, so when you call... It's a long monologue...You can't get a word in edge wise. And the first 10 minutes if you can stand it, is all about them... Their last thing is to say, well I have to go, but hope you are doing well, or how are you. I went on and on...Well we can catch up next time you call...


I don't have any advice. I have been through this. If I need to say something, I blurt it out first... Saying look, before you say a word, I have to tell you something... That always worked.

Good luck, this is hard. Sending you hugs...

 

[Haven]

Thank you so much for your advice, ladies. After I typed this out I felt really awful about it and wondered if I was going to get a slap on the hand for being a brat.

I'm rereading your advice and playing out the scenes in my head. Please, if anyone has anything else to share, bring it on.

Circe--Oh, is that classic. You tell him about it, and he goes on for 40 minutes. OY!

 

[Kaleigh]

Haven,
How is her short term memory?? Does she recall what you talked about the day before?? Being self absorbed does happen a lot with people that are alone. That's all they know.. Hard to explain but saw that with my Grandmother.. But she was much older than your Mom.

Was your Mom empathetic before?? Is this self absorbed tendancy a new thing??

 

[MichelleCarmen]

You should just tell her! Sounds like she may not listen much to what other people say, so if that IS the case, then she'll probably not take note of what you say and keep on rambling (Lol!), so you won't hurt her feelings, but you will have gotten what's bugging you off your chest (the best you can). Hopefully she does hear it, though, on a subconsious level, and listens more.

Good luck

 

[Maria D]

Being 50 myself, yes I think 54 is much too young to blame this on "old age!"

I don't think you should say anything about how this problem of hers is a social disability that's going to prevent her from finding love and happiness. That is not your business; it's up to her (or anyone) to do some self-reflection and figure out what about themselves needs to be worked on to get what they need out of life.

But your relationship with her *is* your business. I think you should call her right away (so that hopefully she doesn't have too much pent up monologue from new happenings!) and let her know that her behavior really hurt your feelings. It sounds like you are going to have to do some acting to pull this off though, because from your post it doesn't sound like you were hurt by your mom -- just that you are worried about her. Maybe that is true and you are just emotionally strong enough to not take things personally, or maybe you've just learned not to expect emotional support from mom. I think if you want to help her, you have to act like you have every right to expect her to support you and that she let you down. It's the only way to show her that this bad habit of hers is detrimental to relationships. In other words, lay on the guilt!

I'm very sorry about your friend, how awful. And I am just like you in not asking people about personal things because I don't want to appear rude. The truth is I'm nosy as hell and lap up everything people tell me -- but I hesitate to ask!

 

[Hera]

Oh, I know exactly what you're going through. My mom can't stop talking about herself. I do have to say aha and hmmm or she'll think I'm not paying attention to her.
I would have a talk with her and let her know that you don't feel like she's interested in your life and such. I wouldn't involve anyone else because that will just seem like you're ganging up on her and she'll feel defensive.

Now, just because you do let her know, doesn't mean anything will change but we'll hope for the best.

 

[Maria D]

I was thinking, would my daughter say this about me? Do I talk about myself too much? My daughter is 18 and doesn't want to tell me anything about what's going on in her life. When we are together, it's like an inquisition - how's school? have you made many new friends? how are your professors? what do you do on the weekends? She doesn't want to share so I end up talking about myself to fill in the silence. I'm thinking could this weird mom behavior start when daughters become young adults and want to keep things private?

edited to add:
haha, I'm talking about ME ME ME

 

[Haven]

Ladies, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Maria--Oh goodness, no I would never bring up my concerns about her love life. I can only imagine the fallout that would happen after that disaster. I do worry about her, though.
Thank you for your kind words.
You made me laugh with your last line!

Hera--That's a good point. I don't want her to feel like we're ganging up on her.

Kaleigh--She is sharp as can be. No memory loss whatsoever. She was more empathetic before, definitely. I was really indulgent with both of my parents for a while after the divorce, because, well, that was a huge trauma for them. But now I fear I might have enabled some of this.

Gypsy--I might actually record a conversation. Not to use it as a weapon, but more of a wake-up call if necessary. That's an awesome idea. It's to the point where I say NOTHING at all, not even an mhmmm, and it doesn't matter.

MC--Want to tell her for me? I'll give you a present!

Okay, so this is going to seem so silly, but:
What would you say? I mean, which exact words would you use?
I'm scared to bring it up. Can you tell?

 

[lliang_chi]

Haven, I have this same issue with my dad. My mom too, now that she's all weird from the divorce in progress too. Anyway, I solved this by being very rude. I interrupt, tell them they're repeating themselves (my dad does this a LOT), tell them I heard this already, tell them they're saying the same thing over and over. Not he best way to do it, but it's the only way to get them to stop and realize what their doing. It hasn't worked though, so maybe my advice isnt' the best.

Good luck
~LC

 

[Hera]

Haven, I have this same issue with my dad. My mom too, now that she's all weird from the divorce in progress too. Anyway, I solved this by being very rude. I interrupt, tell them they're repeating themselves (my dad does this a LOT), tell them I heard this already, tell them they're saying the same thing over and over. Not he best way to do it, but it's the only way to get them to stop and realize what their doing. It hasn't worked though, so maybe my advice isnt' the best.

Good luck
~LC

Like (but I would only fantasize about doing this)
I don't think people really change this part of themselves. You can't make someone be interested in your life or others.

 

[HollyS]

****EDITED to protect the innocent****

Hi, everyone. I need your advice. Pretty please with an AVC on top?

Okay, here goes:

Someone I love has a bad habit of talking AT people for extending periods of time. She does this on the phone and in-person. Even when I call her to say something or ask a question, I will often end up listening to her speak for 20 minutes before I can even get a word in. And if you do get a word in, it's pretty much ignored.

This hurts me because I'll have something I really want to share and get feedback or support, and I won't get it.

What would you do? Please share your ideas.

(Sorry I took out so much info. I'm not sure who reads PS.)

So, Haven, how exactly do you know my MIL? And, really, why would you want to talk to her?

 

[iLander]

You and your sister sit her down for a minute and say "Mom, we love you, and we want to help you make new friends now that you're starting this wonderful new life after the divorce. (she will try to interrupt, raise a finger or say "AND" really loud) There's a really minor habit of rambling a bit that though we find it endearing, other overly-sensitive people may find a little off-putting. (you'll need to raise the finger again) People are so sensitive today, it's a bit much, but if you could pause a bit more in your conversations, you'll come across as the warm and open person that you are." See how you buried the word "rambling" in between the fluff? Then you say things like "People want you to know them better, so you should ask them about their day, listen to their concerns. It will make them seem more interesting to you, too."

Basically, you want to couch it that all the other people in the world are sensitive dufuses that need to be accomadated, she's perfect and you love her, and this is just to help her. It will take the sting out of it.

The two of you sitting her down may impress her that this is a serious thing and she should pay attention now. It's basically to make her stop talking for a minute.

You will have to repeat it several times, several ways and politely shush her throughout. You may have to ask her "Do you think it's because you're a bit nervous?" and try to get to the root of it. Ten dollars says she's nervous. Then you will have to suggest a "signal" to let her know when she's doing it, like a finger on the nose, a loud "Ahem", whatever she'll agree to. Tell her "We wouldn't be good daughters if we didn't tell you about this. We wouldn't be doing you a service if we didn't help you with this little thing."

My MIL did this, her sister does it, that's just the way they talk. There's nothing wrong with them, though they are a bit self-centered. I think it's coming from a large family and/or being from New Jersey. But who knows?

You'll do fine, you're a nice person with good intentions. It'll be fine. If she's a crier, bring Kleenex. If she's a yeller, be ready to ignore it. BUT you only have one shot, so you have to get all the way through it. If you stop, and try again later, she might feel badgered. Practice. Pretend it's a parent-teacher conference (you're a teacher, right?) and you have something difficult to say.

 

[Kaleigh]

Haven,
You have such a lovely way about you. I am sure you will find the caring words to share with your Mom. I always speak from the heart. I start with, hey Mom I really want to share something with you...

Then say what you want. The biggest thing is to get her attention, this isn't going to be her talking at you for 10 minutes...

Knowing you, it will go well. It will be kind, gentle and given with such love and empathy.....

You are the one to give us tips!!! I always think of you as the go to person...

Funny how that works.

xo

 

[rainwood]

Haven -

What about trying the following:

Call your mother and let her talk as long as she wants. Don't interrupt or do anything to turn the conversation to you. Time it so you know exactly how long it lasted. When she's finally done, wait for a couple of seconds of silence and then say: "Mom, would you like to know what's going on with me?" And wait for her answer, which I assume will be some variation on "Of course, I do." Then say "I wasn't sure because you've just spent the last __ minutes talking about what's going on with you." Then tell her what you want to tell her. Don't say anything more about it. If she says "Oh, it couldn't have been that long" just matter of factly say "Yes, it was. I glanced at the clock when I called you and it was ___. It's now ___."

If she gets mad at any of that, just stay matter of fact and finish the conversation in whatever way causes the least amount of grief. Next time you talk, wait until there's silence and just ask "Mom, would you like to know what's going on with me?'" Don't add the next part. Just ask that question. Ask that same question every time you talk to her. Maybe she'll get the message. If that doesn't get through to her, I'm not sure what technique would work.

 

[Imdanny]

I do this to SO. It is a thoughtless thing to do and I shouldn't do it or should do it less. Particularly when I get up in the morning my thoughts are particularly organized about whatever it was I was doing or thinking about the previous day and I tell him everything that's on my mind usually about subjects that he isn't very interested in. For instance after Laurie told me about Oscar Heyman I told him about how Laurie told me about them, what they do, their history, why I'm fascinated by them, etc. He did kind of like the part about how they make their own tools but I'd be lying if I said I thought he really wanted to have to listen to a ten minute presentation about a relatively obscure jewelry house at 7 in the morning. He's so patient with me and always humors me by listening to whatever it is I want to say but I can't say I like it when certain family members of mine do the same thing to me. I guess my advice would be the usual stuff. I'd say directly to the person that they do this and encourage them to be better listeners because you want to express what you want to say naturally as well. I can say from my own experience that the person who is doing this might have some awareness of what they're doing already. They might just have trouble not blurting out what they want to say but they probably mean well and might even be open to trying to change the behavior. Good luck. Hugs.

 

[Circe]

Haven, I have this same issue with my dad. My mom too, now that she's all weird from the divorce in progress too. Anyway, I solved this by being very rude. I interrupt, tell them they're repeating themselves (my dad does this a LOT), tell them I heard this already, tell them they're saying the same thing over and over. Not he best way to do it, but it's the only way to get them to stop and realize what their doing. It hasn't worked though, so maybe my advice isnt' the best.

Good luck
~LC

... huh! This is exactly what I do, but I never thought of it as being rude, just self-defense. If I want to keep my dad on-track instead of devolving into an hour-long ramble that no-one can track, I have to interrupt periodically to say, "Dad, point?" (or, for emphasis, "Dad, point!"). It doesn't exactly change his behavior, but it at least lets me understand what he's talking about, which I figure is halfway there ....

This thread is actually kind of a relief to me, in realizing that other people's beloved, aging parents do this stuff too.

P.S. - Haven, 54 isn't old. But that's around the age my dad was when he started getting worse with it, too (though he'd always been like this, honestly). I wouldn't worry about it: I think it's a little natural. Better if it can be diverted, though!

 

[Octavia]

One of my best friends does this. It's not so bad when we see each other in person, but more and more I've found myself avoiding phone conversations because it turns into an hour of her ranting about her job and me "mmm-hmming" and then she says, "I hate to do this, but I have to run." I have wanted to address it with her, but never knew how to do it tactfully. It's hard because when a person is close to you, it feels like you should be able to tell them things honestly, but sometimes it's just so hard to actually do.

 

[KittyGolightly]

My mom will do this. It is annoying, but it's just how she is. I think that part of the problem is that her social circle has gotten smaller over the years, and she just doesn't have as many outlets for conversation.

If I really need to talk to her about something, I tell her at the start of the conversation, "I need your advice about something. Can I tell you what happened?" It puts her in a listening frame of mind.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think you should interupt her at the beginning of the phone conversation when you have something to tell her. "Mom, MOM, MMOM, I called because I want to discuss something with you. I can't always get your attention. Could you please give me your time now.?
"Oh, you need to talk to me? About what?

Now tell her what you want to discuss. At the end , compliment her on listening to you. Tell her you need her as a sounding board more often. "Thanks Mom".

I believe in being direct. No need to be anything except telling her the truth. Nothing unkind in that, that i see.

Just needs some nudging.

Annette

 

[monarch64]

Hi,

I think you should interupt her at the beginning of the phone conversation when you have something to tell her. "Mom, MOM, MMOM, I called because I want to discuss something with you. I can't always get your attention. Could you please give me your time now.?
"Oh, you need to talk to me? About what?

Now tell her what you want to discuss. At the end , compliment her on listening to you. Tell her you need her as a sounding board more often. "Thanks Mom".

I believe in being direct. No need to be anything except telling her the truth. Nothing unkind in that, that i see.

Just needs some nudging.

Annette

Yup, I really think this is the best answer. I read your original post before you edited, Haven, and I have to say that I think you and your sister have encouraged the loved one by letting her go on and on and even going so far as to time the "monologues" without interrupting. I'm not saying you're at fault but you have definitely encouraged the behavior. If you want an adult, give-and-take relationship with this person, you have to ASK for it, and TELL the person your needs. Act like an adult, and the person will see you as an adult, and not just a passive listener.

 

[Haven]

Thank you everyone for your advice.

You're all right, of course.

I think it's difficult to change the pattern we've gotten into, so now I'm going to focus on doing just that. I really appreciate the detailed responses about what exactly to say, because I am having a really difficult time even *thinking* about approaching this issue.

Monnie--I know you're right. She does this with everyone though, and not just us, so I'm not going to beat myself up thinking that I'm making it worse. But I am definitely allowing it to happen with me, nonetheless. That's for certain.

Smitcompton--Thank you! I need a dialogue, and this one is perfect. I'm typically direct, but it's more difficult with certain people, I'm finding.

Kittygolightly--I like the way you said an intro will put her into the right frame of mind. I think that's really going to help me remember how to approach our conversations.

Octavia--I'm chuckling because one of my good friends also does this to a lesser extent. I'm much better at interrupting her than I am at interrupting the person I'm talking about here, though. Probably because of our different relationships to each other. It is difficult!

Circe and LiangChi--Your posts made me realize that I actually do exactly what you describe with my own father. I say things like "Right, you already told me that story" or I'll move my hands in a "go on" gesture when he's taking too long to get through some details. How strange that I can do it with him and not with another. I think it's because he has ALWAYS been that way, maybe?

Imdanny--Thank you for the support and for sharing your story. I used to do something similar with DH. He would ask me about my day and I would tell him a short summary, but I wouldn't reciprocate. I don't know why, but I've always felt this sort of question was small talk, but DH took it as my not being interested in his day. And I am! I just assumed he would TELL ME ABOUT IT if he wanted to do so. I don't really like recapping my day unless something extraordinary happened, which occurs maybe NEVER, so that's why I never asked. Of course, he told me it made him feel bad so I started asking.

Rainwood--I really like this approach. I'm going to use this one when I don't have something really big to share. Thank you so much for the advice.

Kaleigh--You are too sweet. Thank you for your kind words. It's so interesting to learn how others perceive us, isn't it? Your post calmed me, thank you so much.

ILander--Thank you for your wise words. I'm going to use this approach if the gentler ones don't work!

Holly--Ha! I rarely LOL when reading, but I did when I read your response. Thank you for that.

Hera--So true, so true.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, everyone. I now have the resolve and the know-how to approach this. Wish me luck.

 

[rubybeth]

Someone I love has a bad habit of talking AT people for extending periods of time. She does this on the phone and in-person. Even when I call her to say something or ask a question, I will often end up listening to her speak for 20 minutes before I can even get a word in. And if you do get a word in, it's pretty much ignored.

So, Haven, how exactly do you know my MIL? And, really, why would you want to talk to her?

Umm, I'm with Holly. My MIL is the same way. She will even ask me or DH a question, and then it becomes a monologue about HER and something that happened to her back in 1972.

The thing is, I think she is well-meaning, but she has some pretty major mental issues. She's been diagnosed all over the place, but now that DH works with troubled teens, he's fairly certain that she has borderline personality disorder. Not saying that this person in your life has a personality disorder, but from other posts of yours, it sounds like she's been through some emotional trauma and could be failing to deal with it appropriately.

 

[Efe]

Not having read the original post, I am not sure of the entire context, but I did want to mention that sometimes women of menopausal age experience a time of self-absorption. They have spent a good part of their lives taking care of others, usually before themselves, and when their estrogen levels drop off so drastically, so does the maternal feeling. This can get replaced by a feeling of "it's my turn now." Sometimes the children get the brunt of it. I have no idea if this makes any sense, or is relevant to your situation at all, but thought I would throw it out there.

 

[somethingshiny]

My mom does this but it's pretty much only to my sister or me. I've figured out the reason! We are the only ones who REALLY listen to HER. She can talk to my dad, her sister, her co-workers, etc, and they never really listen. We listen so we are really her only outlet. Therefore, we get the brunt of the me-centricity. It's not that she's TRYING to do it, it is just what happens when she finally gets a captive audience. I've decided to let it go. I can't imagine how it must feel to really believe that only 2 people really listen to you and both of those are borne from you.

Yes, it is still annoying. Yes, sometimes I'd really like to talk about me or my family. Yes, sometimes I feel like I'm just a sounding board. But, I won't tell her to stop. It's easy to listen and that's all she really wants.

 

[monarch64]

SS--good point, sometimes we are just the designated listeners because we're the ones who put up with it. Nothing wrong with playing that role, but in order to be heard you really have to speak your mind, LOUDLY, when you want that.

Haven, my "loved one" and I have struggled for years since I was of age to find a balance. This past summer, I really had to stand my ground on something and although it was very painful for both of us, that brought about the change that was needed. Your issue requires change, too, and you are going to have to be the one to institute it, and she is going to have to help make that change or your relationship will suffer. It will happen, it will just be hard and likely painful. In the end, though, the result will make you both happier and improve your relationship.