Should this mother go to jail for leaving her baby in the car?

[TravelingGal]

The baby was never out of her sight...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23594474/

And some reader comments:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23597193/

A friend of mine did this recently. I sent the story to her in the hopes that she won''t do it again. I worry that someone would see the baby in the car and call 911...because honestly, I probably would. By the way, when I say I "worry", obviously it would in the best interest of the child to do that, but I would feel horribly for my friend to get in big trouble for something it seems quite a few parents do...

Personally, I would never do it. Especially living here in LA! Of course, I say that now before TTot is born...

 

[fisherofmengirly]

While I can appreciate that the mother in this case was within view of the vehicle and her child at all times, and while it certainly appears (from her side of the story) that the police took the situation too far, I myself have called 911 when I have seen a child unattended in a vehicle. Due to my job, I am a mandated reporter, but beyond that, I have concerns for children left alone in cars, particularly in the heat. I know this story was in the winter in Chicago, and therefore, having nothing to do with the heat, but stories like this happen all the time, and it's alarming just *how* fast a car can become blazing hot inside, particularly to an infant or young child. On the flip side, a car can get mighty cold very fast, too.

The fact that this story (and others like it) have caught media attention is allowing other parents to be aware of the dangers (physical and legal) of leaving kids unattended.

While I have called 911 in the past, I have always monitored the situation for several minutes before hand. Seriously, if someone has chosen to run and do this, or run and do that, and then comes to the car within a few minutes of me becoming aware of the situation, I don't call the police. I'm not trying to ruin lives here. When the parent does return to the car, I have, at times, let them know the dangers of passersby worrying about the children, and let them know the risk involved with leaving children in cars. Some parents appreciate the concern of a stranger, and some don't. I don't care about that. I just want them to be aware.

There have been times (at a Wal-Mart parking lot and at a BIG mall) that I've stood and watched for a good while and never seen parents come for their children. That's when I call law enforcement. And I don't call (nor do I think most people who make reports of this type) to get a parent in "trouble;" I do it in order to assure the child is safe and hopefully so that professionals can empower the the parents to be aware of dangers involved with leaving children in parking lots.

I also know older children are not as at risk and some kids want to go along for the ride, but then decide not go into the store or place of business to complete the errand. I think the main concern is with younger children being left in a car (locked or not) with no supervision at all, for any length of time beyond mere moments.

There have been so many cases where children have literally gotten heat stroke and died in cars, or have been abducted due to being left alone in cars, but visible to others, and some cars have been broken into by thieves unaware there was a child in the back seat.

It's just a big risk. Everyone has to make their own decisions as to how to care for their children, and I know just how cumbersome it can be to strap and unstrap a baby into a carseat. But, the risks are just far too high for me. Sure, the chances of being caught or of being in a horrible situation where your car and child aren't there when you come out of the store aren't too high, but why take the risk? If for no other reason that someone seeing it and having to go through either a police or social services investigation. Neither would be fun.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

I just heard on the radio about this case; Mom is scheduled for court today; the DA is dropping all charges due to "too little evidence."

 

[Erin]

It''s absolutely ridiculous. I''ve heard of stories where a child was kept in a dog kennel. Even less severe, where kids are left at home for hours while Mom works another job, or where the parent is passed out on the couch most nights. Children are neglected in horrific ways. This, is not one of them.

I don''t have children so I don''t know if I''d leave my child in the car while I go inside to pay for gas when the ground is an icy sheet of glass. Seems like it would be okay to me. Maybe because both my parents did it. Heck, I''d be in charge of my little sister and brother in the car while Mom ran inside the grocery store for milk and bread.

I don''t think you should walk into a mall and buy a dress ''real fast'' but the government is scaring people out of using what some people deem common sense.

 

[D2B]

As a mother myself, I am not going to judge her decision. She knows the distance from car to the money collection point etc.

There are so many poor children seriously neglected and abused, kids who grow up in homes with no hope of love and the care to nurter them into healthy caring adults - this is where the focus and efforts need to go. Laws need to be in place to stop people leaving children in cars for long periods or in dangerous situations eg heat, but common sense needs to be applied. This ties up time and money that police and associated professionals could be using helping children who are neglegetd and in dire need.

I hope common sense prevails.

 

[LitigatorChick]

I have left my little guy in the car to run in and get my drycleaning. It takes less than 2 minutes.

I think if I noticed a child in a car, I would look to see if the child looked okay (here, sleeping), and if it looked like the car had been there a long time (here, winter, so you would be able to tell). If I was concerned, I may wait around for 5 minutes, which is a reasonable time period for a parent to dash in somewhere. At that point, I might start asking people if they had seen anyone. I would call the police for help only once a serious amount of time had passed.

All I can say about this story is what a waste of police and justice system time and taxpayer money!!!

 

[lyra]

I wouldn''t have done it, ever. When our kids were that young, there was an instance of a little girl that age being kidnapped and killed after being left in the car. It happened in our neighbourhood, at a shopping center. The parents had left the girl for a long time, like 2 hours, but still. Hearing about that sort of thing so close to home (literally) was more than enough to shock us into never ever leaving the kids, until the oldest was over 12! I frown upon people who leave their dogs in the car too. Just too many bad endings we hear of every year.

 

[Ellen]

I wouldn''t have done it, never did do it. I didn''t even do it until they were many years old. Believe me, it IS tempting, when you know you''re close enough to see the car, and especially if they''re sleeping. Who wants to wake them up for a couple minutes?

However, as the cop said, in a couple minutes, things can happen. I always thought, it would be my luck that something would happen to me, as in, heart attack (not that I''m prone to them), mugging/beating to unconciousness, etc. The point is, I was affraid something might happen where I couldn''t speak for whatever reason, and there the baby would sit, alone in the car.

And of course there''s other unknown, unplanned things that could happen. It''s just not worth it, no matter how much of a hassle it may be.


However, I think this went way too far. Maybe a warning of the discussed dangers, but that should be it.

 

[Mara]

for me it depends on where you live big time. if we are in a small sleepy town, i'd probably be okay with it for 2 min. my mom left me all the time when going into pay for gas in the 'old days' when you had to pay cash, or to get dry cleaning or to get money or whatever. but that was a long time ago and things were a lot safer then people might argue.

it's so hard for me to even leave my dog in the car for like 5 min to run into a store, even on a rainy cold day with the windows cracked and door locked. i am sure someone would want to steal her. with a child i think i'd be even more paranoid...esp in today's age and given where we live, a larger city/suburb area. i mean honestly i don't even know if i'd let my kid play in the yard in a bigger suburb/city area unless there were other kids or someone watching them.

it is tough though because now this lady is under such intense scrutiny and people question her parenting, etc...i think that a lot of people nowadays are way nosier than they used to be. instead of waiting 2 min to find out what's really going on, they might totally freak out and boom it's national news.

 

[hlmr]

Absolutely NOT!

This story is crazy, and my heart goes out to this poor mother who imo did nothing wrong at all. She sounds like a wonderful mother to me, and there are so many out there that do neglect their children, that it is a shame she has been targeted like this. She had the car within her sight at all times, and come on, why would she take a sleeping toddler out into the inclement weather for two or three minutes.

Do mothers leave their sleeping babies/toddlers alone in the home? What about if you go outside to get something out of your car, pick up a newspaper or just go down to the basement to get the laundry? You could have a heart attack there too. You could get sideswiped by a car when bending down, picking up the newspaper.

I definitely left my son alone in the car while he was sleeping while standing nearby when he was little. I would let him finish a nap while I did some gardening out front, or sat on the step reading. If you are using your common sense, as a mother you will know what is right and what is not.

 

[VegasAngel]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous. Her child was in eye view. You know, I understand that people want to look out for children but AT LEAST take the time to assess the situation. I mean, if you see kids sitting alone in a car for 10 miniutes or something call 911. If it''s a 115 degree summer day & you see kids sitting in the car without parents, call 911. I left my daughter in my car one time to run in & out of place I left my coat. It was a fall day, doors were locked, she was sleeping & covered

& I was back in less than 30 seconds. So, I should go to jail for that? Come on.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

She was only 10 yards away? That is ridiculous.

When my kids were that little, I neurotically took them out of the car every time I got out, but now I''ll leave them in if I check my PO box. I ALWAYS lock the door, though!!!

 

[Independent Gal]

I also think this is a ridiculous waste of law enforcement time and money, although I don''t know whether or not I would do it. Probably would have, I guess.

But I''m a little skewed, since where I grew up, kids played outside on their own from a very young age all the time without supervision. It was just normal.

 

[TravelingGal]

You know, I wonder...where do you draw the line? Sometimes kids are farther away from their moms than this incident on the playground. Who''s the say some freak won''t run over, swoop up your child and run away? Is that endangerment? Most people would say not. In this case, I think the cop went too far and it was a waste of taxpayer money.

But as Mara says, depends on where you live. I would be too scared to even walk away from my kid left in a car, even though it is within eyeshot. Geez, people hijack cars even with the owner in it in LA!

Big brother is watching, even when you don''t know it. My friend got social/child services called on her. She was at home one day and they came to her house. Apparently a neighbor saw her daughter''s back somehow. DD was born with Mongolian spots (purplish marks on her back common in asian children, but not so much in white ones, I think) and the neighbor thought my friend might be beating her. The social worker took DD aside and asked her all kinds of questions and checked out the marks. Obviously it was fine, but it really shook my friend up, and pissed her off too. But the neighbor was only trying to help.

 

[VegasAngel]

^^I would have been mad too nobody wants CPS visting but at the same time if the spots were noticeable & the neighbor didnt know what they were you cant blame them. Sort of straying but on another board I visit people were sharing reasons that CPS/cops had visited them & maaaaan you wouldnt believe some of the stories & a lot of the times it was the the mother or mother-in-law of the parent who called. One woman said her family was eating out & out of nowhere some woman comes up & tells them she is going to call the cops because she didnt think their child was dressed warm enough. Cop comes, looks & walks right back out. Another said her mother called CPS because she thought it was inappropriate for the dad to be giving their baby daughter a bath.

 

[Cind11]

I think things are taken way too far in today''s society. The child was in full view of the mom at all times. I think the situation would have been vastly different if she had gone inside a store and left her child in the car. That I don''t agree with, and think is dangerous.

To have something like this happen to someone who sounds like a good person seems ludicrous...

 

[bee*]

Date: 3/13/2008 8:40:23 AM
Author: Starset Princess
It''s absolutely ridiculous. I''ve heard of stories where a child was kept in a dog kennel. Even less severe, where kids are left at home for hours while Mom works another job, or where the parent is passed out on the couch most nights. Children are neglected in horrific ways. This, is not one of them.


I don''t have children so I don''t know if I''d leave my child in the car while I go inside to pay for gas when the ground is an icy sheet of glass. Seems like it would be okay to me. Maybe because both my parents did it. Heck, I''d be in charge of my little sister and brother in the car while Mom ran inside the grocery store for milk and bread.


I don''t think you should walk into a mall and buy a dress ''real fast'' but the government is scaring people out of using what some people deem common sense.

ditto this. I don''t have kids myself so I can''t say it with experience but I was left in the car while my mother flew in to get milk or something like that. The mother could see the kid in this case!

 

[lyra]

I agree with Mara also. We happened to live in a city where several young children were abducted and killed or never found. When we lived there, everyone was super vigilant. You felt you had to be, with these horrible things happening around you. There were serial killers where we lived. When we moved across the country to a quieter, much safer city, we had a lot of trouble giving our kids the kind of "freedom" that the other kids around here had, but we did, over time. Totally different living situations, even though we lived in good neighbourhoods in both cities.

As for the title of this thread, no, I don''t think this mother should have faced jail. I do believe though, that if people were routinely ticketed for this sort of thing at least, maybe some who are actually more careless would think twice about risking it. Not everyone is being neglectful, but it''s always going to be the case that if something does go wrong, the parent will be blamed. They should be charged if they are out of sight of the kids IMO.

 

[Girlrocks]

She did not go into the store, just to drop the money off in the salvation army kettle. She could see the car fully the entire time, it was locked, turned off and alarmed. I think she did nothing wrong. It''s rediculous. What about all of the poeple who let their kids run around the grocery store/Target/Walmart unsupervised while they are a row or 2 away. That''s worse in my opinion.

 

[TravelingGal]

You know though...it only takes a split second for something to happen to a child.

In Australia, 2 (maybe 3, but I don''t remember the 3rd story) babies died in the River Torrens in Adelaide. There is essentially a walking trail that runs around the river through downtown. A mom was walking her baby in a jogging stroller. She then stopped and made a phone call and turned her attention from her baby. The stroller rolled down an embankment and fell into the river, hidden by reeds. The baby died and the mom turned around to find the stroller missing. She thought someone had abducted her baby because she couldn''t see where the stroller went.

The second story was similar, but in this case it was the grandmother who had the baby for the day. Her attention was turned elsewhere and the jogging stroller rolled away into the river.

Neither of these women used the brakes on the strollers.

Now, when I read this, I thought, how could this happen? Why wouldn''t they use the brake? They would have had to not be paying attention for awhile! Well, a couple of weeks ago I took my BOB stroller to a friend''s house to show it off. Later that night I took it back to my car to load it up. I was on a flat sidewalk and opened the hatch of my Freestyle to load it in.

It was only a split second when I looked away from the stroller, but I caught it already starting to roll away from me on what I thought was a FLAT SURFACE! It was about to go off the curb into the street. Wow, what a lesson. I vowed at that moment to ALWAYS use the brake no matter what and just thanked god that I learned that lesson while the stroller was empty. Oh, and I''ll be using the wrist strap too.

 

[LitigatorChick]

It is all about taking reasonable risks. Random and crazy stuff happens (serial killers, strollers falling into rivers, etc.), and we do what is reasonable in our view to prevent this. But if it is minus 40 - yikes, kid could get frostbite if I fell on the street and was knocked unconscious and fell under a car and the baby was with me, eeek! - the best thing may be to throw your drycleaning at the counter and run back into your car (all locked and warm and safe with baby inside).

If it is in the range of reasonableness, which I think this woman was, then the authorities and other people need to stay out of it. It is when there is an unreasonable risk that I think people are justified in getting involved.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 3/13/2008 2:02:29 PM
Author: Girlrocks
She did not go into the store, just to drop the money off in the salvation army kettle. She could see the car fully the entire time, it was locked, turned off and alarmed. I think she did nothing wrong. It''s rediculous. What about all of the poeple who let their kids run around the grocery store/Target/Walmart unsupervised while they are a row or 2 away. That''s worse in my opinion.

Agree completely. Total abuse of power and waste of law enforcement, money and time. Not to mention incredibly traumatizing for the poor kids who had to watch their mommy being put into hand-cuffs, having no idea what she did wrong.

I can understand the impact of making an example of somebody, and why some people might believe the ends (media attention to the problem of child neglect) justify the means (arresting a mother who was trying to do what''s best for her multiple children)... but to be genuinely impactful, it needs to be somebody who actually did something wrong.

In the park, I see a ton of moms/nannies leave one child to sleep in the stroller while they play with their other child, 10 yards away. Should I be calling the police each time I see someone do it? Should those moms be dragging the stroller alongside them as they run after the ball their toddler has thrown? What about the risk of the baby getting hit with the ball or the stroller tipping over as mom runs?

There are risks to every situation, every time we leave the house... maybe we should just not go out in the first place.

 

[monarch64]

I''m chiming in completely late, but just wanted to say that maybe it wasn''t the smartest decision in the world that this mom made by leaving her child in the car, but I can see her logic. what I can''t see or understand is how this could possibly land her in jail. That would totally be a case of the punishment not fitting the crime.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Date: 3/13/2008 12:14:29 PM
Author: TravelingGal
You know, I wonder...where do you draw the line? Sometimes kids are farther away from their moms than this incident on the playground. Who''s the say some freak won''t run over, swoop up your child and run away? Is that endangerment? Most people would say not. In this case, I think the cop went too far and it was a waste of taxpayer money.

But as Mara says, depends on where you live. I would be too scared to even walk away from my kid left in a car, even though it is within eyeshot. Geez, people hijack cars even with the owner in it in LA!

Big brother is watching, even when you don''t know it. My friend got social/child services called on her. She was at home one day and they came to her house. Apparently a neighbor saw her daughter''s back somehow. DD was born with Mongolian spots (purplish marks on her back common in asian children, but not so much in white ones, I think) and the neighbor thought my friend might be beating her. The social worker took DD aside and asked her all kinds of questions and checked out the marks. Obviously it was fine, but it really shook my friend up, and pissed her off too. But the neighbor was only trying to help.

Most social workers SHOULD know about mongolian spots, because we are SUPPOSED to go through (and pay attention to) a lot of training in order to be more able to determine if there is any concern for the safety of a child. Mongolian spots are also common in Hispanic children.

Everyone has heard the horror stories of social workers gone wild, and I agree, it''s just such a delicate position to be in, you have to really be observant of so many things. The biggest issue I have with the case is dealing with some of the reports that are made. Good grief, kids in locked cars isn''t the half of it.

What happens so often is that someone gets mad at someone else (a neighbor, ex-friend, ex-boyfriend, parents disputing custody, the list goes on and on) and as "revenge," they call CPS to make a report of maltreatment to a child. When a call comes in, there are a ton of questions asked to try to determine how well the caller knows the family, etc, but sadly, you can''t just pop out and say, "Are you doing this for revenge or to be a jerk?" Most states have to go off the "good faith" theory that any caller can choose to be anonymous and can make whatever comments they want to, with no consequences for reporting something they know is a complete lie. Nice, huh?

There are a few states (I believe Florida is one of them) that now has changed the laws and anyone who is determined to have made an allegation out of malice can be charged criminally. I *LOVE* that and wish every state was that way. It in NO way deters people with legitimate concerns from calling, but completely (should) deter the vengeful morons who make reports as a means of "getting someone back."

I always feel so awful when I get a case that is a false report. Most parents fall to pieces, wondering who in the world would think they were harming their child, when they''ve devoted their lives and hearts to them. It''s sad. The good thing is, I''m not a mean social worker (contrary to what is depicted on TV, most of us aren''t) and sometimes by being introduced to the family, we can offer great resources to them they didn''t know about before. I had one case in the fall with a family I just adored and while they were initially really (I mean really, really) upset I was there knocking on their door with a report in hand, they called me at Christmas time and thanked me again for the resources we were able to provide, and stated that they were even glad that their landlord had made a false report because she was mad they had a birthday party and blocked her in (they are determined she made the report, even when it came in anonymous) and they got so many resources out of it. There is a lot to be said for Kharma.

 

[krisvrn]

Personally I would never leave my child in the car even if is just to run in and out. There could be kidnappers, car jackers, cars get car jacked with adult people in them... sorry it's not worth it for me. If I am in such a big rush and I cant take my little boy in with me, then I will just NOT run that errand. I read the article - one it happened in chicago, not sure of what area exactly but come on.... Y take the risk? I live in the midwest in an upper middle class suburb area, but I would not leave my child in the car. Crime can happen everywhere! To me why take additional risks???

It was so not necessary to drop off the coins and snap a picture and leave a sleeping child in the car, even within eye view. So what is she going to do when someone car jacks the car ? Stare at them, fight them off with her eyes? She could have waited until hubby, friend, or whomever could stay home with the 2 yr old and then ran up to do whatever she wanted to do. Yes the officer was way tooo tough on her, but really I just don't feel comfortable leaving the child in the car........

 

[krisvrn]

Date: 3/13/2008 2:02:29 PM
Author: Girlrocks
She did not go into the store, just to drop the money off in the salvation army kettle. She could see the car fully the entire time, it was locked, turned off and alarmed. I think she did nothing wrong. It''s rediculous. What about all of the poeple who let their kids run around the grocery store/Target/Walmart unsupervised while they are a row or 2 away. That''s worse in my opinion.

Those people who let their kids run around stores are just adding additional risks! Does anyone remember the little boy Adam who was in Sears? Kidnapped and murdered?

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Date: 3/13/2008 12:39:28 PM
Author: VegasAngel
^^I would have been mad too nobody wants CPS visting but at the same time if the spots were noticeable & the neighbor didnt know what they were you cant blame them. Sort of straying but on another board I visit people were sharing reasons that CPS/cops had visited them & maaaaan you wouldnt believe some of the stories & a lot of the times it was the the mother or mother-in-law of the parent who called. One woman said her family was eating out & out of nowhere some woman comes up & tells them she is going to call the cops because she didnt think their child was dressed warm enough. Cop comes, looks & walks right back out. Another said her mother called CPS because she thought it was inappropriate for the dad to be giving their baby daughter a bath.

There are boards about this sort of thing? I would love to know about them. I really like the whole social worker doing their job vs. playing big brother debate. Can you tell us where you visited?

 

[LitigatorChick]

People make so many assumptions, and it seems that the automatic assumption is that mom''s are stupid, lazy, negligent, etc. Mom''s don''t need that.

On assumptions, Stephen Covey tells a story in his 7 Habits book about a man getting onto the subway with 2 kids. The kids are creating serious trouble on the subway, running, screaming, banging into people. Everyone is annoyed with the father, thinking "what kind of loser are you!!". Finally, Covey says "can you control your kids" and the father says, sorry, my wife just died, and I am frazzled and the kids are just not knowing how to react. New perspective now that you understand?????

Same thing in this situation. Maybe mom does not take the kid out of the car for 2 minutes because of some perfectly legit reason, not because she is lazy, etc. But no one gave her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 3/14/2008 7:33:49 AM
Author: fisherofmengirly

Date: 3/13/2008 12:39:28 PM
Author: VegasAngel
^^I would have been mad too nobody wants CPS visting but at the same time if the spots were noticeable & the neighbor didnt know what they were you cant blame them. Sort of straying but on another board I visit people were sharing reasons that CPS/cops had visited them & maaaaan you wouldnt believe some of the stories & a lot of the times it was the the mother or mother-in-law of the parent who called. One woman said her family was eating out & out of nowhere some woman comes up & tells them she is going to call the cops because she didnt think their child was dressed warm enough. Cop comes, looks & walks right back out. Another said her mother called CPS because she thought it was inappropriate for the dad to be giving their baby daughter a bath.

There are boards about this sort of thing? I would love to know about them. I really like the whole social worker doing their job vs. playing big brother debate. Can you tell us where you visited?

babycenter.com bargain board.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Thanks, Vegas!