Need Other Perspectives Please--My Mother

[Hera]

Hi Everyone, my mom and I have a somewhat difficult relationship and it can become really hard to keep an accurate perspective. It''s my mom''s birthday coming up and as usual there''s family drama. Last year was drama filled as it was and I would like to not repeat it again. To give you the background on it, I drove 2-1/2 hours to see her for her birthday and because we have a limited budget decided that we would cook her a gourmet meal and get her a cake for her birthday. Well, she flipped out and was really mad that I would ask her what she wanted for her bday dinner, that we should just prepare something. Initially, I was going to invite her brother over for the dinner and then continued to get angry that we would want to invite him because if he comes over for dinner, she won''t get her free, expensive dinner from him. She also flipped out and got angry that we ordered a cake from a bakery that she felt was unsatisfactory, in fact she told me not to go and pick it up. She then told me that one of her friends drives like an hour to get delicious cakes for their mother.

So, here we are this year, sigh.

I told my mom we would be out to visit her around her birthday about a month ago. Today, she tells me that her brother is planning on taking her out to dinner on her birthday which follows on the Saturday we plan to visit. Basically, this entails a dinner at a very expensive five course meal in Hollywood. Everyone drinks heavily in my family (not my husband and I) and purchase expensive wines also. Then, when the bill comes, the bill is split evenly between the people at the table. The tab per person is usually at least $150.00. So in order for my husband and I to go to dinner with them, I can count on at $300 plus my mom''s portion divided. In this instance, we cannot just pay for our own because my mom''s brother(my uncle) gets very offended when we just want to pay our portion.

This year, I cannot attend because we can''t afford it. We''re buying a house and we''re just not willing to incur those kind of charges anymore. So my mom gives me the option of going to the dinner or rescheduling and visiting her the following weekend. Well, I was a little angry that she would pick this dinner over me visiting so I told her so on the phone. After that I said okay, I will come to visit the following weekend, just tell my uncle that I don''t have the money to go to dinner. Well, my mom wasn''t happy with that because my uncle would want to downgrade her bday into a cheap restaurant (or maybe just drinks at their house). She want me to lie to my uncle and come up with an excuse.

Well, I didn''t want to lie to them, but now I''m not really sure what to do. It''s not really a big deal that I visit the following weekend, but I also don''t want to be a doormat either. My mom can be quite entitled, quite the opportunist and I don''t want to reinforce bad behavior. After all, this way she gets two dinners (I did tell her we were going to take her to dinner also) and yes she does think that way.

But seriously, I do realize that it is her bday. Maybe I should give her what she wants....

Thank you for any perspective you can give me

 

[cara]

Hmm... Yes it is kind of ugly behavior on your mother's part. Most general advice is to try (and this is hard) not to expect "normal person" behavior from your mom. This is clearly who she is, and for you to get mad or frustrated at her for being who she is is just going to be difficult for you. Much easier said than done.

This will also help you not feel guilty for not making her happy, since she sounds difficult to make happy. Set your limits, stick to them, and don't cave or feel bad or get upset when she is upset.

Here, it sounds like you are okay coming the following weekend and don't want to lie to the uncle. Just plan to come the following weekend, and honestly tell the uncle you can't make the first weekend and that your mother is very much looking forward to her dinner out in Hollywood on her actual birthday.

Its the truth - you can't make the first weekend, though it is because of the cost. Consider it your birthday gift to her to allow her to have her fancy dinner out. If the uncle asks directly, I think you could say that you changed your plans because of the cost, but that it works better for everyone if you just skip the dinner and come the following weekend. I don't think you should lie or make other excuses, as that is your mental line on what you don't want to be manipulated into doing, but I don't think lying is necessary here.

In future years, it sure looks like your mother would prefer you visit her on some day other than her birthday so that she gets a nice dinner out of her brother. Sad, but it might be best just to plan on coming to visit her "for her birthday" one or two weekends off from the actual day. That way you can invite your uncle over as well and avoid all this nonsense.

 

[diamondfan]

I think is being spoiled, demanding and unappreciative. You know it, and want to try to please her anyway, but you do have your limits.

I would let her go with your uncle. Tell her finances prevent you from going to that dinner, and you do not want to impact her evening, so you will come the next weekend. Then chose a nice place that is in your budget and take her there. I would make no apologies for it, you are making a nice effort and are doing the most you can do financially. People like your mom can never be pleased so I would do what makes you comfortable and know that she can always find a way to be unhappy if that is her goal. My mother in law is like this so I have some experience.

 

[icekid]

Wow, to be honest... your mother sounds like a lot of spoiled 5 yr olds I know. You know, the ones who are counting Christmas presents to compare to their siblings! I find it pretty darn unfortunate that she values a fancy dinner over spending time with you. But that''s probably in part because she knows she can guilt you into coming a different weekend, so why should she change her plans and maybe have to miss out on present #22?

I doubt if anything you do will change her attitude, at this point. It sounds like she''s been this spoiled and demanding for quite a while (forever?). I can''t imagine... I guess your best bet is to beg off the dinner. Then let her tell your uncle whatever lies she wants to, because she will probably do it anyway. Sounds like you will probably just have to tolerate her behavior (on a limited basis if it were me!) or else, have your say about her ugly behavior knowing that she not speak to you after that!

 

[snowflakeluvr]

gosh, i''m so sorry for your troubles...i just spent "hell week" at my mom''s due to my mom''s and sisters entitlements(another post soon to follow) it sounds like you and your hubby are thoughtful(driving 2+hrs to be with mom, nice dinner, etc), sensible and goal-oriented people(the new house).
I am really working on NOT apologizing anymore for my life. dh and i are married 21 years, 5 kids, out-of-state from family and moving in two weeks to another state....you and dh are entitled to save the way you want(=house), live the way you want(as long as it''s legal

) and give the gifts your budget sees fit. i overindulge my mom usually and spend more than "normal" people would on their parents.i have a lot of nice things(like jewelry) that i actually quit wearing around my mom due to the comments "can i have that when your done with it". do what you can and wish to do for your mom. she does sound like a petulant, selfish person. i am sorry to say. my mom has had a very hard and tragic-filled life, i would NEVER wish to cause her hurt BUT after the week i spent with her(with four of my children) i realize that SHE really only cares about HERSELF...so...
good luck and please please do not give into her guilt-i did it for years and it still got me no points. i really took a stand on several issues this past week, felt like a complete B as the words were hurling out of my mouth(ALL related to my even more selfish, self-centered, user sister) but KNOW that i am doing the right thing by standing up for ME and my children(finally).
i am also "older"(in my 40''s) and am realizing as i grow and grow-up that pleasing my mom isn''t going to change a da*m thing in my life or hers so it''s time to start doing what is best for me.
sending you cyber (((hubs))) as this is such a personal and tough subject...bless your heart!

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 8/2/2008 11:24:36 AM
Author: diamondfan
I think is being spoiled, demanding and unappreciative. You know it, and want to try to please her anyway, but you do have your limits.


I would let her go with your uncle. Tell her finances prevent you from going to that dinner, and you do not want to impact her evening, so you will come the next weekend. Then chose a nice place that is in your budget and take her there. I would make no apologies for it, you are making a nice effort and are doing the most you can do financially. People like your mom can never be pleased so I would do what makes you comfortable and know that she can always find a way to be unhappy if that is her goal. My mother in law is like this so I have some experience.

Ditto.

Though to be honest, if my mom treated me like dirt last year, I wouldn''t even bother going to see her THIS year. But then, my mom isn''t a jerk to me, so maybe I don''t know how to handle it properly.

 

[Haven]

Hera--I''m shocked to read about your mom''s behavior, and I just want to send you a big hug.

In my limited experience with hard-to-please irrational people, I''ve learned that regardless of what I do, it is never enough. So, I stay absolutely true to myself and don''t put myself out on their account. I know that''s extremely hard to do with your own mother, but it sounds like the result won''t be different either way--she won''t be happy. But YOU can be.

Good luck. Big hugs.

 

[Hera]

Thank you so much for the replies. I really sometimes lose perspective with my mom. My mom has been acting like this my whole life and it becomes really trying. I normally don''t have too many difficulties dealing with her except for holidays when things tend to spiral out of control. My mom has two different sides to her and sometimes you don''t know which one is present until too late. Unfortunately, that''s after a 2.5 hour drive in traffic. I''ve been through a lot of therapy and know that she will always be the way she is and I will always need to limit set with her. Her behavior can be quite childish (tantrums) and she believes that because she raised us (along with my father) that there is payback to be done. Her favorite commandment is "honor thy mother and father" and recites it often to me.

Cara: I do always have to keep in mind she''s not a normal person. She''s so different from me, in fact, she''s my opposite.

Diamond Fan: It''s so hard when you want to please someone like my mom and your mother in law. It''s funny, because she later apologized about the year before and said that she''s not used to having nice birthdays. It doesn''t make sense. I''ve had bad birthdays too (imagine my twin having a birthday party but I wasn''t allowed to have one). Today, I''m touched at any type of birthday celebration.

Icekid: I don''t have a five year old yet, but when I do, I''ll have good practice. She did make a weak offer to cancel the dinner with her brother but I think we both know how well that would go over.

Snow: Did you grow up in my household? My mom and my twin brother are both entitled. I hear where you''re coming from.

Haven: She is quite irrational. While I do want to still please her for her birthday, it''s hard on me that I can''t. She does have some redeeming qualities and I try really hard to have a relationship with her.

 

[diamondfan]

It is hard, Hera, but also tends to be a lose lose proposition, no matter your intent going in.

I have learned that rationality and logic are useless in these cases. I also think your mom might have a bit of a personality disorder, as my mother in law and my sister do. The world revolves around them for the most part, their wants, their needs. Nothing you do is right, and even when you are trying your utmost to be patient and thoughtful you do not make them happy. That is why I say, be pleasant to your utmost ability, try not to get riled or sucked in, just know that she will most likely act in this manner. Forewarned is forearmed...if that makes sense. I found if I do not EXPECT them to behave normally and rationally it still stinks but I am not disappointed. Also, being kind and firm but clear in what YOU are willing to do...saying, Mom, I know it means a lot to you to see your brother and I know you are really looking forward to a nice meal with him for your birthday celebration. However, we cannot afford this right now, so you go ahead with him and we will come another day to celebrate with you. Who could argue with that? You are not being combative or rude, just fair and matter of fact. Then, if she asks you where YOU will be taking her, say, Mom, no worries, we will find a nice place within our budget, after all, this is about celebrating your birthday with you. Again, how can anyone argue with that? You are only being realistic but still trying to make it about her so she looks nasty if she complains about WHERE you are taking her. I think people like this are very taxing and you are nice to be trying to pursue the relationship. Of course she is your mom, and always will be, but it is tempting to keep a large distance when someone is too tough to deal with.

 

[Hera]

Update:
So I called my mom to let her know that she could go on with her dinner and I would visit the next week. She asks me if I''ve talked to my brother about it and I tell her that I hadn''t. I ask her why I would, and she doesn''t answer. So then she says that she''ll just cancel the whole thing and not celebrate her bday at all. She can be quite the drama queen and be histrionic so I ask her if she''s going to continue to have bad birthday behavior like every birthday. She calms down and then sincerely started saying that she''ll cancel because she wants me there.

But, I know her better than she knows herself and know that I will have to deal with her taking it out on me by being bitter, spiteful and ungrateful when I take her to a cheaper dinner. So I tell her no, that she should go to dinner and I''ll see her the weekend after.

Then, she starts explaining that she really wants to go to the dinner because she wants to see who REALLY cares about her. After all, she goes to everyone Else''s bday dinner with gifts and wants to see if they''ll give her gifts also. I just tell her she shouldn''t go to anyone''s bday dinners that she doesn''t want to celebrate.

So she asks me if I think she''s wrong and I just repeat that she can go to the dinner and I''ll see her the weekend after. Then she starts telling me that I''m putting her in a bad situation and I tell her that I''m relaying what I''m doing in response to her bday dinner. She gets upset and then I get upset because I think I''m just letting her know what I''m doing and now she''s trying to make it my fault by suggesting I''m pushing her into this decision.

I get off the phone and call a mutual friend of my mothers and mine and she tells me that my mom just wants me to go her expensive birthday dinner.

So, here I am. I''ve had bad holidays with my mother since as long as I can remember. Thanksgivings are filled with drama because my mom says she has to do everything (only her food is up to par so we can''t potluck and she has us cleaning and chopping all while she''s yelling about how it''s not perfect.) Christmas'' are drama too (even setting the house and Christmas tree on fire recently).

She always has an excuse why she can''t go into therapy. When she''s working it''s because she''s too tired/too busy and now that she isn''t, she doesn''t have the money. She is better though, when it''s not around the holidays and she does have some redeeming qualities. It''s just hard to remember them when I think about all of the holidays.

My vote is to not see her anymore around the holidays anymore. It makes me really sad when I think about that, but that''s where I''m at with it. It''s always crushed me to think that she would be alone on Xmas and Thanksgiving, but I don''t know what I can do at this point. I just want to be okay with that kind of decision. I really want to be.

Thank you for letting me share such a personal, disappointing part of my life. I feel better

 

[cara]

Maybe therapy for you, to help you feel better about setting limits and practice techniques for dealing with her? Or there was this book I started reading - Coping with your difficult older parent: A guide for stressed out children, Lebow & Kane. Its for adults whose difficult parents are starting to decline in age-related ways, but a lot of the techniques for difficult parents are really applicable and better started when the parents are still functionally able to care for themselves.

Sounds like you did really good on holding your line on dinner, but just not quite up to snuff on not feeling guilty about it, yet! And for the holidays, you might need to either forcibly move one out of her sphere of influence or just stop going to at least one. One of the common recommendations is to cut back on something without stopping entirely to see if it becomes more tolerable. If the smaller amount is still intolerable, step back again. Such as deciding that this year you will do xmas but not turkey day - knowing that xmas will involve tons of guilting and whatnot from your mother for skipping thanksgiving but steeling yourself against feeling any guilt or discussing it with her. Then if Xmas only makes you feel just as sucky, then next year you don't come to either but come up for a different weekend in the middle instead.

Anyway, good job on not getting sucked into expensive dinner, and be sure to put on your happy face when you do go to visit your mother and wear your rain slicker so her comments on missing you/you don't care enough about her just roll off your back. She does love you, its just in her own selfish way...

 

[Hera]

I''ve had three years of therapy going on four. I just can''t stop feeling guilty! Thanks for the book suggestion Cara. I''ll check it out.

 

[swingirl]

I''d send her a nice card and flowers and call it a day! No visit, no dinner.

 

[cara]

Ohhh! So it is in your nature to feel this guilt and you are just going to have to manage it as best you can!! And get backup from reasonable people around you and your therapist and take comfort in the rational knowledge that you are being a good daughter and your mother is just flat-out difficult.

You might not be perfect at managing your guilt or your mother or backing off the right amount but just try to find the level of all three that is most tolerable and least bothersome to you. She will never be an easy person to deal with. Good job on this one, thus far!

 

[snowflakeluvr]

oh heraandersen, please don''t let her guilt you. you are using precious energy on things that are out of your control.

last week, while staying with my mom in another state with 4 of my 5 kids, we had to spend time with my 7yr old nephew-he''s a demon, he really is. just awful, no limits no boundaries. my two older boys wanted to throttle hiim.

so on night 4 of our visit(our last night and my mom kindly offered to "babysit" so i could meet my college roommate and bestest friend in the world for dinner) my older boys are 13 and 18, the two younger kids are 4 and 2 so in theory the older boys could help with the younger ones. so my sister (who has demon boy) has her son call grandma and say "grandma i love you. can i come swimming tonite? it''s so hot here" my mom says, "no honey, grandma is so tired(we had a busy week at an amusement park, ball game etc where my nephew was included in some of it) but my sister thought we had left grandma''s. i wanted my four kids to enjoy grandma''s in peace that night and my mom was feeling guilty by my b*tchy sister who put her brat up to calling my mom(mind you this child has KICKED and spit on my mother so please realize that my defamatory language about him is not without reason) so my mom comes to me, and says billy really wants to come swimming, it''s soo hot tonite. so i say, "ok mom, i''ll take my four to dinner with me and then we''ll go ahead and drive back to ohio tonite, no biggie. mom says, "oh no, i want YOU to stay" i say, "well my kids have had enough of billy and i don''t want them here alone with my sister and him and you because NO ONE stands up for my (younger) kids and it''s not fair to them" my mom then says, "don''t do this to me" i yell back in her face," i am NOT the one doing this to you, it is your other daughter" then my mom shut up. i had SEVERAL confrontations like that this past week with my mom-i felt bad, disrespectful but my sister and her son have absolutely NO respect for my mom. i finally took a stand, it was more of a knee-jerk reaction at times that i really didn''t need to muster the courage to speak out. i was soooooo fed up with my sister bossing my mom around and my nephew acting like a little a$$.
we left the next day, i left a little thank you card we all signed on my mom''s dining room table-she''s already called me twice telling me what a nice week she had with us there, so please please learn to stand up for yourself. i told my dh i felt bad that i really spoke out but it was time i did. now i need to tell my devil of a sister off and she''ll probably never forgive/forget. she is a huge user, a religious zealot who happens to be chasing a married man right now...her life is a mess, mine''s on track enough said.
i hope you are not offended by anything i''ve shared. i am just learning to do what is best for me and i feel much better about ME from doing this. your mom really knows how to work you-i know from firsthand experience(and having two siblings that have treated my mother very badly) that you are entitled to the life you want, and to do what you want.
i quit wearing my diamonds around my mom because she made too many comments behind my back. then i realized, dh works his tail off, my diamonds are paid for, this is what we choose to spend our $$$ on so it''s noone beeswax that i wear some great jewelry. it''s hard and hurtful to have close family behave this way. but it is what it is.
I hope you work this out soon...