Kids present @ childbirth... weird or cool?

[Independent Gal]

I''ve noticed a growing trend among people I know to have their older children there while they give birth. I know someone who had his 7 year old son there when his younger son was born, and now a friend of mine is thinking of having her (at the time to be) almost 3 yr old there when she gives birth to her next child.

Apparently, the theory is that since childbirth is natural and beautiful and all of that, the older child shouldn''t be shielded from it, plus this makes them feel more involved and less marginalized or scared by the arrival of the new sibling.

On the other hand... uh..... I dunno. Seems like a lot of screaming and blood to foist on a little thing.

So I just wondered what your thoughts were. My gut was "Are you nuts?!" but the more I think about it, the more I sort of ''get it''. And then I go back to thinking ''But the poor kid, watching mommy scream?!''

Thoughts?

 

[Lorelei]

Personally I feel it is a very frightening situation to force on a young child, so I would not consider it.

 

[diamondfan]

I think that is a bit extreme. I can see having an older child at the hospital so he can see the sibling very shortly after birth, when they are out of labor and delivery, but otherwise I think it is likely to be traumatic. Just because something is natural and lovely etc does not mean a child should watch. Sex and dying are also a normal part of life but that does not mean kids should see it. Things happen and kids do see things that are not great, but I would not do it intentionally. I think that is carrying it a bit far, and I think there are many kids who could not handle it emotionally, seeing their mom in any pain, or if something went wrong during the delivery or with the baby.

 

[Blair138]

I was 5 when my mom had my younger sister and saw my mom after the birth in the hospital room. I remember being scared seeing her in the hospital like that-I cannot imagine seeing the whole birth as a child

 

[dani13]

No way, Indy. As you know, I am an L&D nurse....Once in a while we get people who want their kids in the room when they deliver.....To us, that is just STRANGE, and we dont allow it- its strict hospital policy. Honestly, you never know which way a delivery going to go....IMHO, it would just be too traumatic for a child to be in the room, period.

 

[KimberlyH]

I think the answer should depend on the age, maturity, and desire of the child, i.e. Has a 15 year old who is close to her mom asked to be there vs. a 4 year old who is asked if he/she wants to be present and says "yes" because it means being near mommy but has no idea what childbirth means and could be quite frightened by the experience.

My personal gut reaction is no, in most instances.

 

[Independent Gal]

That's what I would have thought. My friend with the 7 year old said that the kid thought it was totally amazing and was thrilled to be part of it and talks about it all the time. I could sort of see a 7 year old being old enough to understand what's what. Even though I still thought it was pretty weird.

But a 3 year old? I mean, there's no chance she would 'get' what was going on, and that mommy wasn't sick. Y'know? Not to mention if something goes wrong and mommy IS sick.

I feel like I'm missing something here... Because it is getting really popular. Weird.

 

[jas]

I think sometimes parents overestimate how much a young child can comprehend/handle. What is beautiful and natural to adults may just be traumatic to kids.

Again, though, I'm a strange breed of cat. I wouldn't even want other adults/family members there. I'm always shocked to hear how sisters, cousins, and milkmen are present as the baby is born. I guess I don't want my stretched-out hoo-haa being a sort of community-viewed portal.

Of course, your mileage may vary. I am not embarrassed about my body, nor do I find my nether regions distasteful...

I'm sure we may hear from other parents who had sibs in the room and it was the greatest thing ever.

I wrote in the preggo thread a few weeks back about an episode of one of the baby shows where an 8 or 9 year old sib was in the room. Mom went without medication. Even though grammie was there to tend to older brother, he was cringing in fear with Mom's every grunt. There was one point he was on the bed with Mom, and Mom was on all fours (kid was below her) and she was literally screaming in his face with pain. Between each scream she said, "Oh, [kid name], I love you."

I think that moment earned him some therapy.

Then again, I'm not sure that I want to be in the delivery room when I give birth.

So, I guess, for me, I'd be ok with a sib hanging out with family in the waiting room and meeting Baby when the screaming and blood and other drippings are done.

That's just me.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:05:13 AM
Author: jas
I think sometimes parents overestimate how much a young child can comprehend/handle. What is beautiful and natural to adults may just be traumatic to kids.

Again, though, I'm a strange breed of cat. I wouldn't even want other adults/family members there. I'm always shocked to hear how sisters, cousins, and milkmen are present as the baby is born. I guess I don't want my stretched-out hoo-haa being a sort of community-viewed portal.

Of course, your mileage may vary. I am not embarrassed about my body, nor do I find my nether regions distasteful...

I'm sure we may hear from other parents who had sibs in the room and it was the greatest thing ever.

I wrote in the preggo thread a few weeks back about an episode of one of the baby shows where an 8 or 9 year old sib was in the room. Mom went without medication. Even though grammie was there to tend to older brother, he was cringing in fear with Mom's every grunt. There was one point he was on the bed with Mom, and Mom was on all fours (kid was below her) and she was literally screaming in his face with pain. Between each scream she said, 'Oh, [kid name], I love you.'

I think that moment earned him some therapy.

Then again, I'm not sure that I want to be in the delivery room when I give birth.

So, I guess, for me, I'd be ok with a sib hanging out with family in the waiting room and meeting Baby when the screaming and blood and other drippings are done.

That's just me.

How traumatic for that poor child.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

As with anything, I think it depends on the "cultural" climate of the family. Many people/families do not think of birth the way many of you are characterizing it, and so for them and their family it would be a normal and natural thing to have children present. I think, for example, and unmedicated home birth or birth at a birthing center with a midwife would be a very different thing for a child to witness than a birth in a hospital. I wonder if part of the scary part for the child is the tubes and the wires, and the fact that hospitals mean "danger"?

To each there own. I know many people would not consider the type of scenerio I am describing, but millions of people around the world do it all the time and I see no problem with it.

 

[diamondfan]

All kids are different and what they can handle is different, but there are some things that are not reasonable in terms of exposure. I am sure no child wants to see mom in pain or see blood, and even they somewhat "get" that a baby is coming and mommy is fine, it is still going to imprint on them.

and JAS, I am with YOU. Could I be elsewhere? I was scared every time I went to deliver, thankfully mostly all went well.

 

[Independent Gal]

OMG, JAS, that is just HORRIBLE. Yeah, I wonder if even my friend''s 7 year old, they are being ''selective'' in interpreting his reactions.

And I agree wtih you about having people in the room. DH? OK. But absolutely NOT my mom, best friend, or the milkman. Absolutely NOT. Also, for me personally, I totally don''t get the video camera phenomenon. I would not want someone filming me in that condition (I mean, I''m camera shy at the best of times). Nobody will ever film my hoo-ha, it is not for filming. Anyway, who watches that?

But I guess since I said the same thing about a wedding video, I''m probably not the right person to ask.

 

[Jas12]

Indy--This is an interesting topic that i have been thinking about lately as well!
I was present at my sister''s birth (my sister and i were both born at home). It is one of my earliest memories and evidently not a traumatic one cuz i have a very positive view of birth and have since i was a child. I didn''t get in there and watch the crowing as far i know, rather sat with my mom at the top of the bed and helped her breathe. Unlike a hospital setting, where the birth experience is almost expected or assumed to be awful and complicated, my mom always described the home births as closer to a party-like atmosphere with friends and family and a celebratory electricity in the air. I think it was pretty hard for me to become traumatized as a kid in that environment--it wasn''t framed as ''mom is in dire pain'', more like "mom is going through something amazing and this is what is going to happen''. Now, i know that if something was going wrong i probably would have been sheltered from it, but that was not the case.
As for noise and blood: i had a looong, painful drug-free birth but i did not scream like you see in the movies, in fact i barely made much more than some grunting and moaning sounds. I am sure there are plenty of women who do scream but it''s not always the case.
Blood--there is lots of it, esp after the birth, if kids dodn''t know why mom is bleeding i could see that being very scary so i think kids would have to either a) be old enough to understand the bleeding is normal or b) leave the room for clean-up

I''ve thought about this topic myself b/c i hope to have the next kid at home. I don''t think i would bring Cohen into a hospital environment for a birth (only b/c hospitals are associated with sickness/suffering etc. and seeing a parent hooked up to monitors, IV''s etc in an unfamiliar settign as was the case for me, does not seem comforting or normal) If i do have a home birth i would consider it. This is such a personal choice that really depends on age, personality and comfort level.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:14:22 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
As with anything, I think it depends on the ''cultural'' climate of the family. Many people/families do not think of birth the way many of you are characterizing it, and so for them and their family it would be a normal and natural thing to have children present. I think, for example, and unmedicated home birth or birth at a birthing center with a midwife would be a very different thing for a child to witness than a birth in a hospital. I wonder if part of the scary part for the child is the tubes and the wires, and the fact that hospitals mean ''danger''?


To each there own. I know many people would not consider the type of scenerio I am describing, but millions of people around the world do it all the time and I see no problem with it.

These are all home and birthing center deliveries, not hospital deliveries. But having mom on all 4''s screaming? I dunno.

I wonder if there are cultures where children are routinely present at childbirth. Does anyone know?

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/14/2008 9:54:17 AM
Author: Lorelei
Personally I feel it is a very frightening situation to force on a young child, so I would not consider it.

Wholeheartedly agree.
You don't know what you're getting with childbirth. AND every childbirth is different.

I guess a lot of women have epidurals though, and apparently they make childbirth very civilised?

Still, you can't know what is going to happen to you during the birth experience.
eg. You might vomit copiously after every contraction (happened to me)
The labour might continue for several days (happened to me)

You might have difficulty coping with the pain, and make a lot of guttural noise, especially when the baby is coming out (happened to ...you get the picture

You might need medical intervention. Things can change rapidly. Even a simple forceps delivery /stirrups would probably be scary for a child to watch.
And what if the newly born infant, or the mother, suddenly takes a turn for the worse? Happens often enough, it's quite common to have a little something go wrong. My own second son stopped breathing at birth. (He's totally fine, btw)

The older child might need attention, at a crucial time that your birthing assistants need to give YOU attention

There could be emotional trauma surrounding the event, perhaps for years to come.
Doctors and nurses games anyone? Don't think so!!

Childbirth is natural, and an awfully high percentage of women would naturally die in childbirth, without medical assistance. So yeah, scary, exhausting, wonderful, happy, risky event, for adult eyes only.

Having children watching a birth is very niave , I think. IMHO

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:04:24 AM
Author: Independent Gal
That''s what I would have thought. My friend with the 7 year old said that the kid thought it was totally amazing and was thrilled to be part of it and talks about it all the time. I could sort of see a 7 year old being old enough to understand what''s what. Even though I still thought it was pretty weird.

I don''t know, Indy, 7 is still very young. At this point kids are still very attached to their parents in an infantile way and their whole goal is to please, so they may think that sticking it out is representative of their love for mom and dad, even if they are freaked out by the experience. This kid you''re talking about may have really amazed by the experience and is old enough to understand the basic idea, but most 7 year olds don''t understand reproduction beyond mommy and daddy show love to each other in a special way that makes a baby, and the whole birthing experience could be pretty darn traumatic for a typical second grader (plus I''m just picturing show-and-tell at school: I got to see my mommy give birth... you get the gist).

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:15:58 AM
Author: Jas12
Indy--This is an interesting topic that i have been thinking about lately as well!

I was present at my sister''s birth (my sister and i were both born at home). It is one of my earliest memories and evidently not a traumatic one cuz i have a very positive view of birth and have since i was a child. I didn''t get in there and watch the crowing as far i know, rather sat with my mom at the top of the bed and helped her breathe. Unlike a hospital setting, where the birth experience is almost expected or assumed to be awful and complicated, my mom always described the home births as closer to a party-like atmosphere with friends and family and a celebratory electricity in the air. I think it was pretty hard for me to become traumatized as a kid in that environment--it wasn''t framed as ''mom is in dire pain'', more like ''mom is going through something amazing and this is what is going to happen''. Now, i know that if something was going wrong i probably would have been sheltered from it, but that was not the case.

As for noise and blood: i had a looong, painful drug-free birth but i did not scream like you see in the movies, in fact i barely made much more than some grunting and moaning sounds. I am sure there are plenty of women who do scream but it''s not always the case.

Blood--there is lots of it, esp after the birth, if kids dodn''t know why mom is bleeding i could see that being very scary so i think kids would have to either a) be old enough to understand the bleeding is normal or b) leave the room for clean-up


I''ve thought about this topic myself b/c i hope to have the next kid at home. I don''t think i would bring Cohen into a hospital environment for a birth (only b/c hospitals are associated with sickness/suffering etc. and seeing a parent hooked up to monitors, IV''s etc in an unfamiliar settign as was the case for me, does not seem comforting or normal) If i do have a home birth i would consider it. This is such a personal choice that really depends on age, personality and comfort level.

OK, I get that. Kids do pick up a lot of their cues from their surroundings and other peoples'' reactions. And as I said, these are all home births or birthing center births, not hospital births.

How old were you when your sister was born?

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:17:23 AM
Author: Independent Gal

Date: 7/14/2008 10:14:22 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
As with anything, I think it depends on the ''cultural'' climate of the family. Many people/families do not think of birth the way many of you are characterizing it, and so for them and their family it would be a normal and natural thing to have children present. I think, for example, and unmedicated home birth or birth at a birthing center with a midwife would be a very different thing for a child to witness than a birth in a hospital. I wonder if part of the scary part for the child is the tubes and the wires, and the fact that hospitals mean ''danger''?


To each there own. I know many people would not consider the type of scenerio I am describing, but millions of people around the world do it all the time and I see no problem with it.

These are all home and birthing center deliveries, not hospital deliveries. But having mom on all 4''s screaming? I dunno.

I wonder if there are cultures where children are routinely present at childbirth. Does anyone know?

There are people who will traumatize their kids no matter the situation

, let''s not use the example Jas mentioned as the model for having kids present at a birth! LOL!

Jas12 brings up some great points about how in some families, it could be a positive experience because of the framing for the birth (i.e., "amazing" etc) that the family uses. I just think that just because *you* (the plural you, not you Indy

) wouldn''t do it, doesn''t mean that it is automatically a bad experience for other families. There are many things that are automatically done as course with children in main-stream society that I personally find yucky, but that doesn''t mean I think it is a horrid thing for those families to live their lives that way.

As for cutlures where it is routine, I would bet it is more common in any culture where most births are at home... I think Denmark and Holland have an 85-90% homebirth rate... maybe someone knows for sure.

 

[tiffanytwisted]

Hmm. I don''t think I would want to have a child in the delivery room with me. But then again I really wouldn''t want ANY one other than DH. I hope these people are preparing their children for what to expect. I''m sure some do, but the scenario that Jas replayed, where the grandma had to hold the boy, doesn''t sound like he really knew what he was in for. You can''t really just say "Mommy''s having a baby, and you''re going to watch" and leave it at that.

 

[Lorelei]

Out of interest, in the UK, I think until about the late 1950''s, babies were routinely delivered at home, but the children were packed off to Granny or Aunty for a few days when the birth was imminent.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:05:13 AM
Author: jas
I think sometimes parents overestimate how much a young child can comprehend/handle. What is beautiful and natural to adults may just be traumatic to kids.
At one point he was on the bed with Mom, and Mom was on all fours (kid was below her) and she was literally screaming in his face with pain. Between each scream she said, ''Oh, [kid name], I love you.''


I think that moment earned him some therapy.

Jas and Lorelei, that is the most disgraceful thing I have ever heard. How could that not upset a small person? Particularly bearing in mind that labour can go on for HOURS, not just a few seconds, or a minute or two!!

I feel so sad, that is neglect of that child''s needs, perhaps. But I guess he''s all grown up now, so can rationalise the experience..? Erk.


An earlier part of Jas''s post was that she couldn''t see the point of having everyone in the birthing room. I agree! My mother and sister came, and my mother took photos of me delivering!! I was so exhausted and upset, I felt just like a performing pony. The thought of her showing those photos to her friends!

Yuck, yuck, yuck!!

She''s not the most considerate person I guess.

 

[Independent Gal]

By the way, for those interested in home birth, there's a great and extensive summary of research here: Homebirth I'm all for it in non-complicated cases with careful planning and for those who want. Choice is a wonderful thing!

Sadly, choice is one thing I won't have, since the mortality rate for my twins (if they are ID and sharing a chorionic sac, as now seems almost certain) is about 25% so there is no way I'll be able to have anything resembling 'natural' childbirth. The upside is that at least intervention might keep both or even all three of us from dying as they may well have even 20 years ago, and I may well have 50 or 60 years ago.

Oh, and I'm sure that my friends who've done this extensively prepared their children, taking them to birthing classes, showing them diagrams and teaching them how it all works. But how would you do that with a 3 year old? At least for the last stage. But I gather Jas12's momma had her there until the last stage, which actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[jas]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:14:22 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
As with anything, I think it depends on the ''cultural'' climate of the family. Many people/families do not think of birth the way many of you are characterizing it, and so for them and their family it would be a normal and natural thing to have children present. I think, for example, and unmedicated home birth or birth at a birthing center with a midwife would be a very different thing for a child to witness than a birth in a hospital. I wonder if part of the scary part for the child is the tubes and the wires, and the fact that hospitals mean ''danger''?

To each there own. I know many people would not consider the type of scenerio I am describing, but millions of people around the world do it all the time and I see no problem with it.

I hear you.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:36:52 AM
Author: Independent Gal
I''m all for it in non-complicated cases with careful planning and for those who want. Choice is a wonderful thing!

OT, but how do you actually ''plan'' a biological event?

Many aspects of my ''carefully planned'' birthing experience were a complete surprise to me!

My husband would not allow me to have a home birth - so I wrote a letter to the hospital requesting a water birth there -
Unfortunately for me, my homebirth midwife had not even told me that in first pregnancies particularly, water births can slow or even stop the labour.
I also was not aware of the importance of keeping labour ''to a pace''.
I hopped in to a water bath at the hospital, hoping to give birth...my labour slowed and I laboured weakly for another 48 hours, by the end I was dehydrated, exhausted, and desperate for assistance.

Homebirth carries risk, and that is why doctors don''t really like them.
Women should be made aware of the full realities of homebirth childbirth (perhaps only experienced mothers need apply??!! )

 

[jas]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:30:29 AM
Author: LaraOnline

An earlier part of Jas''s post was that she couldn''t see the point of having everyone in the birthing room. I agree! My mother and sister came, and my mother took photos of me delivering!! I was so exhausted and upset, I felt just like a performing pony. The thought of her showing those photos to her friends!

Yuck, yuck, yuck!!

She''s not the most considerate person I guess.

Before I get flame broiled, I do want to add that I am sure there are lots and lots of people who are more able to cope with having people there at the business end of the delivery bed/table/chair/pool. I respect that. It''s just not for me.

But ok, showing the photos to friends? Really?

 

[jas]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:45:45 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 7/14/2008 10:36:52 AM
Author: Independent Gal
I''m all for it in non-complicated cases with careful planning and for those who want. Choice is a wonderful thing!

OT, but how do you actually ''plan'' a biological event?

Many aspects of my ''carefully planned'' birthing experience were a complete surprise to me!

My husband would not allow me to have a home birth - so I wrote a letter to the hospital requesting a water birth there -
Unfortunately for me, my homebirth midwife had not even told me that in first pregnancies particularly, water births can slow or even stop the labour.
I also was not aware of the importance of keeping labour ''to a pace''.
I hopped in to a water bath at the hospital, hoping to give birth...my labour slowed and I laboured weakly for another 48 hours, by the end I was dehydrated, exhausted, and desperate for assistance.

Homebirth carries risk, and that is why doctors don''t really like them.
Women should be made aware of the full realities of homebirth childbirth (perhaps only experienced mothers need apply??!! )

Oh my! You defined "labor" didn''t you?!!

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:45:30 AM
Author: jas
<
I hear you.

I think hearing mummy scream for hours, or for an hour, or for twenty minutes (depending on her contractions/birthing style) would probably do it for most kids. Even if there''s a million relatives gee-ing them up about how great it is.
Hey, maybe I''m closed minded?

The fact that millions of people do it means nothing to me, millions of people experience frightening / unpleasant experiences (like extreme hunger) every day.

I guess most women who have their kids with them are probably pretty confident about the experience they''re going to have?
(except for the mum screaming in her son''s ear, perhaps!)

I have had a wonderful home birth experience when a girlfriend of mine gave birth. She didn''t make a sound, and her children were all sound asleep in their beds...

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:49:09 AM
Author: jas

Oh my! You defined ''labor'' didn''t you?!!

Sorry Jas

too much information, isn''t it

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:45:45 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 7/14/2008 10:36:52 AM


Homebirth carries risk, and that is why doctors don''t really like them.

Women should be made aware of the full realities of homebirth childbirth (perhaps only experienced mothers need apply??!! )

Yes, that''s true, but there is an ENORMOUS amount of research on this, published in reputable peer-reviewed journals (follow the link I posted if you''re curious) which suggests that homebirths which are planned (as opposed to those that happen at home by accident), and which have back up plans (when I say carefully planned, I mean they know the back-up plan) are really no more, or only a tiny bit more dangerous than hospital births.

Women definitely should become as educated as possible about it before choosing that or any other option! Most of the people I know who have done home or birthing center births have done it with their second child. So they know what''s what.

I don''t think I would want a home birth, but if it weren''t for the complications I can expect, I would definitely prefer a birthing center to a hospital. I hate hospitals.

 

[jas]

Date: 7/14/2008 10:51:40 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 7/14/2008 10:45:30 AM
Author: jas
<
I hear you.

I think hearing mummy scream for hours, or for an hour, or for twenty minutes (depending on her contractions/birthing style) would probably do it for most kids. Even if there''s a million relatives gee-ing them up about how great it is.
Hey, maybe I''m closed minded?

The fact that millions of people do it means nothing to me, millions of people experience frightening / unpleasant experiences (like extreme hunger) every day.

I guess most women who have their kids with them are probably pretty confident about the experience they''re going to have?
(except for the mum screaming in her son''s ear, perhaps!)

I have had a wonderful home birth experience when a girlfriend of mine gave birth. She didn''t make a sound, and her children were all sound asleep in their beds...

I share your views, Lara and agree that both hospital and home births can be magical and wonderful!

I guess that in my upbringing, the birth of a child was a private thing between husband/wife and 20 or so medical personnel...I recognize that this is not a view shared by all.

I think it''s wonderful that so many here have had positive home birth experiences and/or home birth witnessing experiences. I hope everyone on here realizes that while I am happy to judge crazy screaming-in-the-face woman on tv (cuz, really, that kid needed to leave the room and no one seemed alert to it) I am not judging anyone on their birthing choices, nor do I think one option is better than another.