Allisonfaye
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Are there any pastry chef''s among us? I would love to hear more about this career. At 45, I am deciding what I want to be when I grow up. I love to bake so I thought this might be fun.
Is anyone here a pastry chef?
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brazen_irish_hussy
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Try to get freke''s attention, she is the one to talk to. As I recall, she said the one major issue is that because it is specialized, it can be harder to find a job, but I may be making that up do to sleep deprevation
qtiekiki
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One of my friends is a pastry chef. Well I don''t think that''s her actual title, but she works for a pretty well known bake shop in L.A. It seems like hard work. She works from 6am til 4pm six days a week, sometimes longer depending on the orders. I kind of get mixed signals from her whether or not she enjoys her work. Some days she seems happy, other days, not so much. She thought about quitting a couple of time, but they gave her a promotion and she stayed. However I think her reason for quitting was because she wants to move onto other culinary areas for more experiences. She went to culinary school and her dream is to open her own restaurant.
FrekeChild
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Um. What do you want to know?
peonygirl
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Oooh, great post! I want to hear about this too. I''m applying to med school in less than a year, but this would be my alternate career choice, definitely!
Can you gals tell us about the education needed to be a pastry chef and also how difficult it is to get a job in this area? Also, how much do you work? Thanks!
Can you gals tell us about the education needed to be a pastry chef and also how difficult it is to get a job in this area? Also, how much do you work? Thanks!
FrekeChild
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I am not currently working in the food industry, I went back to school for my BA so I'm busy with that.
I have my Associate's degree in culinary arts (2 semesters of culinary and 2 semesters of baking for 6 hours a day plus theory classes) from my local community college. They have an amazingly good culinary program there. I also went to The Culinary Institute of America for the first half of their Baking Associate's degree, but I withdrew right before the externship. I withdrew for many reasons, but mostly because I lost my passion for it, I couldn't see the point in getting ANOTHER associate's, I had a 3.8 GPA without opening books, and it costs about $50k for tuition alone-no room and board, no externship costs, and I was feeling incredibly guilty about the cost because my parents were paying for it. So I have 3 years of culinary schooling under my belt. There are also a few schools (CIA included) that offer Bachelor's Degrees, and they are wanting to get Master's Degrees out there as well.
I faced a lot of issues because I had gone to culinary school. People always thought I knew the answers to all of the questions they had, or they would dismiss me completely because I went to school instead of learning my way to the top. That was very difficult to deal with.
I don't think it's really that hard to get a job in the industry-it just depends on the type of establishment you want to work in. I worked in a rustic fine dining restaurant with everything from scratch(mostly Californian influenced food)
Seasons Rotisserie and a lot of different things were required of me and my coworker, because we were the only pastry people. But restaurants are very different from bakeries, casinos, hotels, etc. From what I know, bakeries and casinos allow more regular hours. Bakers in bakeries usually come in to work around 3am, and work until about noon or so. Casinos and hotels, you can work any hours of the day or night.
I had to do everything there-make bread, come up with daily dessert specials, produce all the components for the desserts that were on the menu everyday, changing desserts every 3 months, come up with holiday desserts, collaboration with the executive and sous chefs for items needed for the savory menu, make quantities of desserts for private parties, prep foods, plate foods, make chocolate centerpieces, etc etc etc. However, at a bigger place like a hotel or casino, there will likely be different kitchens/employees for different types of pastry, like a bread kitchen, a pastry kitchen, prep kitchen, etc. So it depends on what you want to do.
When I was working at the restaurant I was working 8-16 hours a day. The 16 hours was mostly around the holiday season when there were tons of holiday parties, and a specialty dessert menu for Christmas Eve and New Years Eve. On Christmas Eve I did not get to leave until 1am because of the specialty menu. Normally there were 5 savory cooks (saute, grill, fry, salad/cold foods, and a prep cook) and the way our kitchen worked was having the fry cook plating all of the desserts, but because there were 5 new ones that night, tables were to be turned 3-4 times each that night, and just the mayhem and chaos that goes along with a kitchen on a slammed night, I was wrangled into working.
Working in the restaurant industry is opposite of the rest of the human race-when everyone gets off of work, you're going into to work. You spend holidays in your kitchen, you're in your kitchen when you're tired, hungry, sick because there isn't anyone there to take your place or cover for you. Customers depend on you. Everyday I would get home and could hardly hobble into bed my feet would hurt that badly. Women deal with sexism and discrimination EVERY DAY. Illegal drug usage, sex, alcoholism, etc run rampant. You discover there is a step past exhaustion. The pay is not good. Working at Seasons, I made $7 an hour. In Vegas and ONLY because of my education (the CIA being on your resume does a LOT sometimes), I could start out making $11 an hour.
So when I do it again I'm going to own my own place, make my own hours, make the food my way, and not have to deal with anyone else. Unless I do research and development.
I recommend ANYONE who wants to work in the restaurant industry read Kitchen Confidential. Because Tony tells it like it is, and there is no sugar coating like on The Food Network.
ETA: Baking professionally is nothing like baking at home. Sometimes you're missing an ingredient and you can't just run to the store and buy it, or sometimes equipment breaks down, sewage backs up and you can't work, You burn yourself and you can't take a break, stuff gets stolen, etc. I'll think about it some more...
I have my Associate's degree in culinary arts (2 semesters of culinary and 2 semesters of baking for 6 hours a day plus theory classes) from my local community college. They have an amazingly good culinary program there. I also went to The Culinary Institute of America for the first half of their Baking Associate's degree, but I withdrew right before the externship. I withdrew for many reasons, but mostly because I lost my passion for it, I couldn't see the point in getting ANOTHER associate's, I had a 3.8 GPA without opening books, and it costs about $50k for tuition alone-no room and board, no externship costs, and I was feeling incredibly guilty about the cost because my parents were paying for it. So I have 3 years of culinary schooling under my belt. There are also a few schools (CIA included) that offer Bachelor's Degrees, and they are wanting to get Master's Degrees out there as well.
I faced a lot of issues because I had gone to culinary school. People always thought I knew the answers to all of the questions they had, or they would dismiss me completely because I went to school instead of learning my way to the top. That was very difficult to deal with.
I don't think it's really that hard to get a job in the industry-it just depends on the type of establishment you want to work in. I worked in a rustic fine dining restaurant with everything from scratch(mostly Californian influenced food)
Seasons Rotisserie and a lot of different things were required of me and my coworker, because we were the only pastry people. But restaurants are very different from bakeries, casinos, hotels, etc. From what I know, bakeries and casinos allow more regular hours. Bakers in bakeries usually come in to work around 3am, and work until about noon or so. Casinos and hotels, you can work any hours of the day or night.
I had to do everything there-make bread, come up with daily dessert specials, produce all the components for the desserts that were on the menu everyday, changing desserts every 3 months, come up with holiday desserts, collaboration with the executive and sous chefs for items needed for the savory menu, make quantities of desserts for private parties, prep foods, plate foods, make chocolate centerpieces, etc etc etc. However, at a bigger place like a hotel or casino, there will likely be different kitchens/employees for different types of pastry, like a bread kitchen, a pastry kitchen, prep kitchen, etc. So it depends on what you want to do.
When I was working at the restaurant I was working 8-16 hours a day. The 16 hours was mostly around the holiday season when there were tons of holiday parties, and a specialty dessert menu for Christmas Eve and New Years Eve. On Christmas Eve I did not get to leave until 1am because of the specialty menu. Normally there were 5 savory cooks (saute, grill, fry, salad/cold foods, and a prep cook) and the way our kitchen worked was having the fry cook plating all of the desserts, but because there were 5 new ones that night, tables were to be turned 3-4 times each that night, and just the mayhem and chaos that goes along with a kitchen on a slammed night, I was wrangled into working.
Working in the restaurant industry is opposite of the rest of the human race-when everyone gets off of work, you're going into to work. You spend holidays in your kitchen, you're in your kitchen when you're tired, hungry, sick because there isn't anyone there to take your place or cover for you. Customers depend on you. Everyday I would get home and could hardly hobble into bed my feet would hurt that badly. Women deal with sexism and discrimination EVERY DAY. Illegal drug usage, sex, alcoholism, etc run rampant. You discover there is a step past exhaustion. The pay is not good. Working at Seasons, I made $7 an hour. In Vegas and ONLY because of my education (the CIA being on your resume does a LOT sometimes), I could start out making $11 an hour.
So when I do it again I'm going to own my own place, make my own hours, make the food my way, and not have to deal with anyone else. Unless I do research and development.
I recommend ANYONE who wants to work in the restaurant industry read Kitchen Confidential. Because Tony tells it like it is, and there is no sugar coating like on The Food Network.
ETA: Baking professionally is nothing like baking at home. Sometimes you're missing an ingredient and you can't just run to the store and buy it, or sometimes equipment breaks down, sewage backs up and you can't work, You burn yourself and you can't take a break, stuff gets stolen, etc. I'll think about it some more...
FrekeChild
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Uh oh, did I scare you off?
FrekeChild
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Lol icekid. I reread it after I posted it and it sounded so negative...the thing is, I didn't exaggerate any part of the profession, or any of the negatives. It's hard work and unless you have a major passion for it, it's not very rewarding. My time was spent alone in a smoke filled kitchen with a prep cook as my only company during the day, or trying to stay out of the way of the fry cook during service-who only spoke Spanish. And I don't. So while the solitude was nice sometimes, sometimes I just wanted to be able to talk to someone.
I discovered when I was at CIA that you had to have the passion for it-not the pleasing of people that you get when you watch them eat your food-because you don't get to see that as a professional-you're completely isolated from your clientèle. You have to love the food, and go off of that. I never got any "compliments to the chef" and I think it's rare that you do get them-because for whatever reason (and I'm sure selling desserts to MAYBE 30% of the customers who come in for dinner is part of this) but people don't really seem to acknowledge pastry as much as savory stuff. So you don't really get any feedback from people-unless it's bad. CIA was the point in which I broke-I got tired of food. There we ate, drank, breathed, slept, dreamt and lived food. I forgot what else there was to life because I'd been so encompassed in food for so long.
Because of the lack of customer compliments, when we went to Mesa Grill in Vegas we had some AMAZING bread--really great stuff-and I told the waiter to tell the pastry chef it was great-because I know how much and how hard they work, and how little they hear anything about it. So you can't expect to get that stuff. They always show on the Food Network how everyone loves the food made (Thinking Emeril Live here) but that isn't like reality. I only once got to see a customer receive one of my dishes-the look on their face was priceless, they were literally in awe of what was set before them, but that was it. That was all I got.
So you have to be fulfilled by the food. I love the flavors, the textures, the design aspect, the adrenaline rush that hits when you get into the groove and the amazing things I can create, but I'm more of the mad scientist type. If you find my Nutella cake thread (in LIW) you can see kind of what I like to do, and how I operate. Or in The Cupcake Thread-I'm very much the analyst, I like to create and experiment-but very very little of the pastry world is about creating. Most of the people who work in pastry are the people who make danish dough everyday, or use sheeters to roll out pie dough or puff pastry, or mixing various doughs. They spend their days doing monotonous tasks that vary very little day in and day out. And it's hard to work up from that to a position where you have some control over things.
And while the savory side of food has branched out and is more adventurous, pastry is still very classically French. It's very rigid, calculated and unforgiving as compared to savory food.
That is why I want my own business. I want to create and have other people do the monotonous stuff. Think of me as Duff or Geoff, doing the fun stuff, while everyone else kind of does the more boring stuff. But I have to say I'm disappointed in the Food Network's portrayal of pastry. The one and only pastry show is Ace of Cakes, and it's all the fun stuff-the design, the crazy shaped cakes, the antics of the employees, etc. It doesn't show the real inner workings of what goes on that's mundane. And the only other representation you get are the Food Network Challenges with the sugar or chocolate showpieces, the various cakes, etc. A few of Bobby Flay's showdowns are pastry/dessert based. I've spent a lot of time thinking about trying to go on The Next Food Network Star, but I'm trained mostly in pastry-and I'm a good cook, but I'm not a great cook. So I couldn't compete with them like that with the way it's currently structured-but oh how fun it'd be...
It is not an easy or financially fulfilling occupation, but it is one that I love.
I discovered when I was at CIA that you had to have the passion for it-not the pleasing of people that you get when you watch them eat your food-because you don't get to see that as a professional-you're completely isolated from your clientèle. You have to love the food, and go off of that. I never got any "compliments to the chef" and I think it's rare that you do get them-because for whatever reason (and I'm sure selling desserts to MAYBE 30% of the customers who come in for dinner is part of this) but people don't really seem to acknowledge pastry as much as savory stuff. So you don't really get any feedback from people-unless it's bad. CIA was the point in which I broke-I got tired of food. There we ate, drank, breathed, slept, dreamt and lived food. I forgot what else there was to life because I'd been so encompassed in food for so long.
Because of the lack of customer compliments, when we went to Mesa Grill in Vegas we had some AMAZING bread--really great stuff-and I told the waiter to tell the pastry chef it was great-because I know how much and how hard they work, and how little they hear anything about it. So you can't expect to get that stuff. They always show on the Food Network how everyone loves the food made (Thinking Emeril Live here) but that isn't like reality. I only once got to see a customer receive one of my dishes-the look on their face was priceless, they were literally in awe of what was set before them, but that was it. That was all I got.
So you have to be fulfilled by the food. I love the flavors, the textures, the design aspect, the adrenaline rush that hits when you get into the groove and the amazing things I can create, but I'm more of the mad scientist type. If you find my Nutella cake thread (in LIW) you can see kind of what I like to do, and how I operate. Or in The Cupcake Thread-I'm very much the analyst, I like to create and experiment-but very very little of the pastry world is about creating. Most of the people who work in pastry are the people who make danish dough everyday, or use sheeters to roll out pie dough or puff pastry, or mixing various doughs. They spend their days doing monotonous tasks that vary very little day in and day out. And it's hard to work up from that to a position where you have some control over things.
And while the savory side of food has branched out and is more adventurous, pastry is still very classically French. It's very rigid, calculated and unforgiving as compared to savory food.
That is why I want my own business. I want to create and have other people do the monotonous stuff. Think of me as Duff or Geoff, doing the fun stuff, while everyone else kind of does the more boring stuff. But I have to say I'm disappointed in the Food Network's portrayal of pastry. The one and only pastry show is Ace of Cakes, and it's all the fun stuff-the design, the crazy shaped cakes, the antics of the employees, etc. It doesn't show the real inner workings of what goes on that's mundane. And the only other representation you get are the Food Network Challenges with the sugar or chocolate showpieces, the various cakes, etc. A few of Bobby Flay's showdowns are pastry/dessert based. I've spent a lot of time thinking about trying to go on The Next Food Network Star, but I'm trained mostly in pastry-and I'm a good cook, but I'm not a great cook. So I couldn't compete with them like that with the way it's currently structured-but oh how fun it'd be...
It is not an easy or financially fulfilling occupation, but it is one that I love.
Allisonfaye
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YOu betcha! But thanks anyway.
Allisonfaye
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But I promise that the next time I have a fabulous dessert I will send compliments to the pastry chef. I feel bad for all the times I never did that.
FrekeChild
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Awww...that wasn''t my intention!!!!!!
Maybe Jaders has something better to say? What were you thinking about doing?
I''m considering making wedding cakes because it''s more of a do it at your own pace, pick and choose your customers, artistic/flavor thing instead of the hectic rush of a restaurant kitchen.
You might want to check out The Making of a Pastry Chef if you''re at all still interested. I have to admit, I didn''t work in very good conditions, and got abused pretty regularly because of working in a restaurant, but from what I know, working in hotels, resorts and casinos is more calm, and less rushed, plus there is more job security, and more normal hours than the poo that I put up with.
Maybe Jaders has something better to say? What were you thinking about doing?
I''m considering making wedding cakes because it''s more of a do it at your own pace, pick and choose your customers, artistic/flavor thing instead of the hectic rush of a restaurant kitchen.
You might want to check out The Making of a Pastry Chef if you''re at all still interested. I have to admit, I didn''t work in very good conditions, and got abused pretty regularly because of working in a restaurant, but from what I know, working in hotels, resorts and casinos is more calm, and less rushed, plus there is more job security, and more normal hours than the poo that I put up with.
Jaders731
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I definitely have some thoughts to add... but... as Freke pointed out... the hours are crazy.. and I just finished my 11 hour day.. and have to work a 10 hour tomorrow... so.. I''m pretty fried right now, but I promise, if you all hang around till tomorrow night.. I''ll definitely post my thoughts...
I will say this... AllisonFaye, if you have the passion for this... to be a pastry chef... you understand the hours and issues that go into this profession.. you deal with it.. and you make the sacrifices to nurture that passion... its a tough thing to do.. but there are days where it is so rewarding! I love what I do... every single day... I make things that make people happy...and everyday.. I get to play with my food (hehe!) the angry guests/chefs/ other crazies... I deal with, because I LOVE working in pastry.
OK... so I promise.. more thoughts tomorrow.. dont be scared off just yet!
I will say this... AllisonFaye, if you have the passion for this... to be a pastry chef... you understand the hours and issues that go into this profession.. you deal with it.. and you make the sacrifices to nurture that passion... its a tough thing to do.. but there are days where it is so rewarding! I love what I do... every single day... I make things that make people happy...and everyday.. I get to play with my food (hehe!) the angry guests/chefs/ other crazies... I deal with, because I LOVE working in pastry.
OK... so I promise.. more thoughts tomorrow.. dont be scared off just yet!
Skippy123
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Hi, I thought I would share something about a good friend of mine, she received her associated degree in culinary arts from the local community college and has been working for General Mills in the Betty Crocker test baking division; she gets to try out new recipes for their cakes, brownies and cookies all day and she has normal hours. I thought I would just throw that out there because she loves to bake and she found this awesome job after her college. Sometimes I get to try out her tested recipes from work; she sounds like she is having a blast and she has been there at least 10 yrs.
icekid
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Skippy, that sounds like a really fun job! But maybe a little fatteningDate: 7/26/2008 12:53:44 AM
Author: Skippy123
Hi, I thought I would share something about a good friend of mine, she received her associated degree in culinary arts from the local community college and has been working for General Mills in the Betty Crocker test baking division; she gets to try out new recipes for their cakes, brownies and cookies all day and she has normal hours. I thought I would just throw that out there because she loves to bake and she found this awesome job after her college. Sometimes I get to try out her tested recipes from work; she sounds like she is having a blast and she has been there at least 10 yrs.
Jaders731
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oooh.. I want to cry..
I just sat here for 30 minutes with my cup of coffee (out of a real mug this morning, not a to go cup!!!) and typed out a huge response... it was witty.. it was truthful... it was fun... darn it!!! and I just lost it all... and now I have to go make more cookies... argghhhh..
I didnt forget about you ladies... I will have to write more later... but the oven is a callin!!!
I didnt forget about you ladies... I will have to write more later... but the oven is a callin!!!
Skippy123
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Icekid, well she is pretty trim; I think other people do the tasting though. I remember when she told me about her job I was fascinated and thought it sounded wonderful. When I would go to her house she had these delicious cakes or brownies to share with us and she told us it was a test and they might start marketing it, etc. Seriously, it sounds like such an awesome job!!! hehe I need to ask her if she get''s sick of sweets after awhile. I guess it is like when you work at a restaurant and you eat the food all the time then you don''t want any.Date: 7/27/2008 8:17:03 AM
Author: icekid
Skippy, that sounds like a really fun job! But maybe a little fatteningDate: 7/26/2008 12:53:44 AM
Author: Skippy123
Hi, I thought I would share something about a good friend of mine, she received her associated degree in culinary arts from the local community college and has been working for General Mills in the Betty Crocker test baking division; she gets to try out new recipes for their cakes, brownies and cookies all day and she has normal hours. I thought I would just throw that out there because she loves to bake and she found this awesome job after her college. Sometimes I get to try out her tested recipes from work; she sounds like she is having a blast and she has been there at least 10 yrs.
Jaders731
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OK.. I''m going to try this again.. fingers crossed I dont loose it again...
I can understand why some of you ladies were a little aprehensive after hearing Freke''s take on being a Pastry Chef (and definitely Freke, you have paid your dues in the food-service industry) I wont lie, everything she said was true... the hours, the missed holidays, etc...
However, I think that if you go into this industry, understanding the issues that surround it (drug use - - although, this one is not a deal breaker for me... drug/alcohol abuse is a choice, not a pre-requisite for the job) you will do just fine. For example, I work in a hotel that is located in the drug rehab capital of the world.. seriously, we have more rehabs per square mile than anywhere else. I''ve been fortunate to hear the stories of many of the people I work with. And while they all agree that the industry supported their habits, it wasnt necessarily the industry itself that caused it. Plus, I dont have an addictive personality to begin with, so the whole drug use thing doesnt really phase me.
I want to say to anyone who is considering this field of work, is research it... talk to people (which you are doing) but keep in mind, switching to this career is what you make of it, not what anyone else has experienced or gone through. It is true that as a pastry chef, you dont get much customer interaction, so I rely on the people I work with to try my creations and use their reactions as a gauge on how the customer would react. If the guys I work with love it, I''m pretty sure my customers will. I am ok with just getting their praise/criticism/feedback, but that is just me. Some people cannot function unless they have that praise.. but again, if you go into it knowing that you may not get it from the customers, it may be easier for you.
I have been very fortunate to start working as a pastry chef, before I actually went to school to learn the french technique. I learned so much just working in a restaurant, that going to school has been easy for me. Learning the techniques have been very different, but my mindset is different because I have a passion for this. I see some of the girls in my class that have zero passion for this, but are going to school, just for "something to do"... I''m telling you the ladies that will succeed in this business are the ones who are actively seeking work, or working in the industry already and the ladies who TRULY want to do this for a living. You can tell just by looking at them.
As far as being treated differently if you have schooling vs. no schooling... I''m not sure I see that. All of the cooks I work with (non-pastry) all went to culinary school. I started having no schooling. By the time school started for me, most guys said I didnt need to go, that it was a waste of money. But one of the things I have learned is that school is not necessarily ALL about technique. I go to Le Cordon Bleu, and they teach us to be managers as well. We arent just learning about how to make something, but we are learning how to manage the business, which could really be its own course. School really is a benefit, so dont let anyone tell you otherwise.
Like I said before, getting into this industry is what YOU make of it, not what anyone else tells you they experienced, or what its like. Its important to know what its like, but its more important for you to take that information and make what you will of it. If you truly love to bake and make pastries, you will make this industry work for you. You will nuture the passion and show others your passion for it.
AllisonFaye, I know you said you are 45.. I have a lady in my class that is in her late 40s, and I have to tell you, from what I see, she is going to rock this industry. The way I see it, she has 20+ years on most of us... birthday cakes, dinner parties, etc. She has life experience on her side, and I really think that is going to help her in this industry. Will she be in a 5 star restaurant? probably not (that is not to say she couldnt, but she wants to be in a low key, bakery type atmosphere). My point here is that just because you are 45, doesnt mean you couldnt excel at this. Like I said, take what you have, your age, knowledge and experience, and MAKE this industry work for you.
I really wish that I didnt lose my response from yesterday. It was so much better than what I just wrote. I would absolutely love to answer any more questions you have. Hope this helped!
I can understand why some of you ladies were a little aprehensive after hearing Freke''s take on being a Pastry Chef (and definitely Freke, you have paid your dues in the food-service industry) I wont lie, everything she said was true... the hours, the missed holidays, etc...
However, I think that if you go into this industry, understanding the issues that surround it (drug use - - although, this one is not a deal breaker for me... drug/alcohol abuse is a choice, not a pre-requisite for the job) you will do just fine. For example, I work in a hotel that is located in the drug rehab capital of the world.. seriously, we have more rehabs per square mile than anywhere else. I''ve been fortunate to hear the stories of many of the people I work with. And while they all agree that the industry supported their habits, it wasnt necessarily the industry itself that caused it. Plus, I dont have an addictive personality to begin with, so the whole drug use thing doesnt really phase me.
I want to say to anyone who is considering this field of work, is research it... talk to people (which you are doing) but keep in mind, switching to this career is what you make of it, not what anyone else has experienced or gone through. It is true that as a pastry chef, you dont get much customer interaction, so I rely on the people I work with to try my creations and use their reactions as a gauge on how the customer would react. If the guys I work with love it, I''m pretty sure my customers will. I am ok with just getting their praise/criticism/feedback, but that is just me. Some people cannot function unless they have that praise.. but again, if you go into it knowing that you may not get it from the customers, it may be easier for you.
I have been very fortunate to start working as a pastry chef, before I actually went to school to learn the french technique. I learned so much just working in a restaurant, that going to school has been easy for me. Learning the techniques have been very different, but my mindset is different because I have a passion for this. I see some of the girls in my class that have zero passion for this, but are going to school, just for "something to do"... I''m telling you the ladies that will succeed in this business are the ones who are actively seeking work, or working in the industry already and the ladies who TRULY want to do this for a living. You can tell just by looking at them.
As far as being treated differently if you have schooling vs. no schooling... I''m not sure I see that. All of the cooks I work with (non-pastry) all went to culinary school. I started having no schooling. By the time school started for me, most guys said I didnt need to go, that it was a waste of money. But one of the things I have learned is that school is not necessarily ALL about technique. I go to Le Cordon Bleu, and they teach us to be managers as well. We arent just learning about how to make something, but we are learning how to manage the business, which could really be its own course. School really is a benefit, so dont let anyone tell you otherwise.
Like I said before, getting into this industry is what YOU make of it, not what anyone else tells you they experienced, or what its like. Its important to know what its like, but its more important for you to take that information and make what you will of it. If you truly love to bake and make pastries, you will make this industry work for you. You will nuture the passion and show others your passion for it.
AllisonFaye, I know you said you are 45.. I have a lady in my class that is in her late 40s, and I have to tell you, from what I see, she is going to rock this industry. The way I see it, she has 20+ years on most of us... birthday cakes, dinner parties, etc. She has life experience on her side, and I really think that is going to help her in this industry. Will she be in a 5 star restaurant? probably not (that is not to say she couldnt, but she wants to be in a low key, bakery type atmosphere). My point here is that just because you are 45, doesnt mean you couldnt excel at this. Like I said, take what you have, your age, knowledge and experience, and MAKE this industry work for you.
I really wish that I didnt lose my response from yesterday. It was so much better than what I just wrote. I would absolutely love to answer any more questions you have. Hope this helped!
FrekeChild
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
- Messages
- 19,456
Well said Jaders!
I think I have paid my dues, I really got treated like poo-from the sous chef mostly who was usually my direct supervisor. He paid his dues and learned through working his way up to the top over ten years, so I was constantly looked down upon for "taking the easy way up". HA! As if. The executive chef branched out from Seasons and went to start up another restaurant and the sous chef was promoted-right after that, the other pastry person and I left-she was a grad of CIA, because of that he treated her better than he treated me. And she''s actually the reason I went to CIA in the first place. He''s really an awful person in my book. Which is why I tell people to not go to his restaurants.
I''m curious what parts of my posts scared you guys away from it? Was it the hours? The alcohol/drug issues? The no holidays thing?
I think Jaders made some great points about the woman in her class, and the industry in general-it really is what you make of it. I had a 60 year old woman in my classes at CNM (the community college) who was just taking it to learn how to cook with her son so they could open a catering business together. Another at CIA was about 45 and had been a medical assistant for the past 20 years, and she was giving that up to pursue her dreams of baking bread. I''ve never seen anyone (besides the bread chef-instructors) so passionate about what happens with the reaction of yeast, gluten and applied heat. Seriously, I thought she was nuts because I hate making bread (unless I''m stressed out and just want to beat on something) but she had this incredible passion for it, and it was amazing to see.
When I have to move, I''m going to see where we go, and decide what to do when I get there. And get a feel for the field, where ever we end up, before I decide what I want to do. My dream would be to open up a pastry shop where I could serve whatever I wanted everyday, have a little bit of interaction with patrons, make fantastic tasting and beautiful (not cartoonish) wedding cakes. And during the spring and summer (maybe year round if we end up somewhere HOT) I''ll make fresh ice cream of whatever flavors I want-including crazy stuff, like onions, garlic, green chile (it''s a NM thing), and get people to TRY things they ordinarily wouldn''t etc. Not to mention the crazy cupcakes.
I think what gives me the greatest pleasure with regards to food would have to be exposing someone to something new-and them liking it. What about you Jaders?
Oh yeah, and I want to state for the record that I have witnessed all kinds of drug and alcohol usage/abusage but I am a user/abuser of neither. I only drink when in Vegas, a glass of wine to unwind, or a celebration. I think most of the drug usage is with savory people, and less so with pastry people. And there is a huge number of people in the food industry that smoke. HUGE.
I think I have paid my dues, I really got treated like poo-from the sous chef mostly who was usually my direct supervisor. He paid his dues and learned through working his way up to the top over ten years, so I was constantly looked down upon for "taking the easy way up". HA! As if. The executive chef branched out from Seasons and went to start up another restaurant and the sous chef was promoted-right after that, the other pastry person and I left-she was a grad of CIA, because of that he treated her better than he treated me. And she''s actually the reason I went to CIA in the first place. He''s really an awful person in my book. Which is why I tell people to not go to his restaurants.
I''m curious what parts of my posts scared you guys away from it? Was it the hours? The alcohol/drug issues? The no holidays thing?
I think Jaders made some great points about the woman in her class, and the industry in general-it really is what you make of it. I had a 60 year old woman in my classes at CNM (the community college) who was just taking it to learn how to cook with her son so they could open a catering business together. Another at CIA was about 45 and had been a medical assistant for the past 20 years, and she was giving that up to pursue her dreams of baking bread. I''ve never seen anyone (besides the bread chef-instructors) so passionate about what happens with the reaction of yeast, gluten and applied heat. Seriously, I thought she was nuts because I hate making bread (unless I''m stressed out and just want to beat on something) but she had this incredible passion for it, and it was amazing to see.
When I have to move, I''m going to see where we go, and decide what to do when I get there. And get a feel for the field, where ever we end up, before I decide what I want to do. My dream would be to open up a pastry shop where I could serve whatever I wanted everyday, have a little bit of interaction with patrons, make fantastic tasting and beautiful (not cartoonish) wedding cakes. And during the spring and summer (maybe year round if we end up somewhere HOT) I''ll make fresh ice cream of whatever flavors I want-including crazy stuff, like onions, garlic, green chile (it''s a NM thing), and get people to TRY things they ordinarily wouldn''t etc. Not to mention the crazy cupcakes.
I think what gives me the greatest pleasure with regards to food would have to be exposing someone to something new-and them liking it. What about you Jaders?
Oh yeah, and I want to state for the record that I have witnessed all kinds of drug and alcohol usage/abusage but I am a user/abuser of neither. I only drink when in Vegas, a glass of wine to unwind, or a celebration. I think most of the drug usage is with savory people, and less so with pastry people. And there is a huge number of people in the food industry that smoke. HUGE.
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
- Messages
- 31,003
Allison, what about working in a bakery for a while part time or volunteering. Just to see if you even really like being part of the service industry. Because it is the service industry. You have to deal with the public, and their demands, and it ain''t always pretty.
I have been doing a little cupcaking on the side and while I really like it....I am totally a perfectionist and so I end up spending SO much time on my stuff that it''s not about the $$, and for me this kind of thing is a labor of love and not about the money at all. I view it as a little work of art and it''s funny to think people just eat it.
My Mom asked me how much I''d charge for this cake I made for her for Mother''s Day. I said honestly I can''t charge enough to make it worth my time...because it took about 4 hours total on the cake and I''d WANT to charge like $80 which wouldn''t even be what it''s worth to me mentally, and it was just a 4 layer 8" cake. What bakeries sell all the time for like $40. I actually wonder how bakeries make any money really.
So I''m not even a pastry chef or anything like that, but I can see how I''d be a little cautious as well...it can be a huge undertaking and culinary school is quite expensive. First I''d say work in a place that does commercial baking and see if you even like it. It HAS to be a labor of love and you have to have passion for it. Liking to bake might not be the right pre-req for you to make a ''career'' out of it yanno? You could also just do some stuff on the side, print up some biz cards, spread the word, see what people want ? That is kinda what I did.
I have been doing a little cupcaking on the side and while I really like it....I am totally a perfectionist and so I end up spending SO much time on my stuff that it''s not about the $$, and for me this kind of thing is a labor of love and not about the money at all. I view it as a little work of art and it''s funny to think people just eat it.
My Mom asked me how much I''d charge for this cake I made for her for Mother''s Day. I said honestly I can''t charge enough to make it worth my time...because it took about 4 hours total on the cake and I''d WANT to charge like $80 which wouldn''t even be what it''s worth to me mentally, and it was just a 4 layer 8" cake. What bakeries sell all the time for like $40. I actually wonder how bakeries make any money really.
So I''m not even a pastry chef or anything like that, but I can see how I''d be a little cautious as well...it can be a huge undertaking and culinary school is quite expensive. First I''d say work in a place that does commercial baking and see if you even like it. It HAS to be a labor of love and you have to have passion for it. Liking to bake might not be the right pre-req for you to make a ''career'' out of it yanno? You could also just do some stuff on the side, print up some biz cards, spread the word, see what people want ? That is kinda what I did.
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