how would you feel?

[snowflakeluvr]

this afternoon, dh''s and my close friend came for dinner and to visit. he currently lives an hour away and is moving back to our "home" city in pa and we are moving to michigan so he has lived this close to us for about 1 1/2years and we see him about once a month.. he is our oldest daughter(she''s 20)''s godfather and he has been a good friend for at least that long. dh met him at his first post-college position.
so our youngest daughter who will be 3 end of sept is rather smart, strong-willed, chatty and adorable. my 4yr old was tussling with his dad and our little girl came across the room to "uncle bill" as the kids have always called him and somehow scratched his bald head-(he''s 46, not 76 btw) i don''t know if she was just kind of touching it you know because none of us are bald and it''s novel, or she was really trying to scratch him with her fingernail, but she did and there was a mark. he is single, very moody, emotional, and so he smacked her hand 3 times fairly firmly. i was sitting nearby and she started to cry and i scooped her up. he acted shocked and upset and said, "i can''t believe she scratched me. why did you scratch me?" well our little one was wailing and i felt between a rock and a hard place. i have started to put her in the corner(never had to do that with the first 3) and give her time outs because she''s so strong-willed, but i don''t personally use hitting as a method of punishment(not to say that i have never done it but for me even a "love tap" doesn''t feel comfortable FOR ME) so he apologized and i said i''m sorry she hurt you. then at some point after that he left, and my oldest dd and i went to see mamma mia(and we loved it) but now it''s late and i am stewing...he did say more than once, "i shouldn''t have hit her" and me, being the people-pleasing middle child(not making excuses for not standing up for my daughter just explaining my temperament to you) did not want to ruffle any feathers. but now i feel really upset and my little dd obviously did NOT want him to hold her after that.
he has been a wonderful friend. he came out to dh and i earlier this year(we were not surprised) and we have really tried, in spite of our own more conservative beliefs, to be there for him as a friend as he has been there for us always. we are that close and although he does not share any of his more personal details of his life with my dh, he does talk to me about "stuff" and i also talk to him about "stuff", so we are really close. i just feel bad for my daughter because i KNOW i would NEVER EVER touch someone else''s child. of course we won''t see uncle bill for awhile, but i don''t want to feel resentful toward him and the situation(or should i?) i know my little girl can be a pistol but frankly it all happened so quickly and it was a scratch not a puncture wound for goodness sake, he may have smarted but most adults probably would not have (over) reacted like he did.
help me. i know some would say that they''d have thrown him out, and some would forgive. he''s not a parent and i do feel he overreacted but it''s done, and we do not see him nor will we see him regularly when we all move to other places. i just have this pit in my stomach that i didn''t do right by my little girl. i don''t want it to turn into some big drama either, we are moving, two of our kids are heading to college and i don''t have the energy. bottom line-i think my feelings of trusting him have changed(he has never babysat my kids or anything like that but as i said, he''s "family" to us and our kids, and also to our other family members who have known him for a long time too) and i just need some encouraging words. how would you feel? thanks cyber friends

 

[hairgirl95]

Thats a hard one snowflake---I don''t know what I would have done in the situation. I can see why you are stewing about it though--I would be the same way. I have to agree with you that since he is single with no children, he probably has very little tolerance for even minor kid incidents. Anyone who spends any time around children knows that these scratches and bruises are just common place. Heck, my 2 year old nephew is in complete destruction mode right now, and I rarely leave him without some kind of war wound! But they are KIDS. Stuff happens. But.....him slapping her hand would have reeeeeeealy ticked me off. I think I would say something to him about that. Especially since spanking and love tapping are not part of your disciplinary protocol. I really think punishments need to fit the crime, and your daughter did not do this on purpose, and he had no right to slap her hand. Poor girl---I feel bad for her AND you! Good luck sweetie---

 

[miraclesrule]

Whoa!! I actually had to get up and walk around before I decided to post.

You have every right to be upset. If I were you, I would talk to him about how it made you feel.

Because if he had said to me "Why did she scratch me" I would have said "Ummm, because she''s 3 and she''s a kid and I''m sure she didn''t mean to hurt you"

But I have to admit that before I could even say that I would have said "Did you just hit my kid? I can''t believe you just hit my kid!!"

I would have wanted to hit him back, but that would just be teaching my kid that hitting was okay.

Although that would make me a bit of a hypocrite, because my daughter went through a hair pulling phase and a biting phase. Once I was talking to a friend and she wanted my attention and when she didn''t get it immediately she bent over and bit me on the thigh...really hard too!! My knee jerk reaction was to grab her arm and bite her back. She started crying, and I said to her "How did that feel? That hurts doesn''t it? Now you know what it feels like when you bite people. It hurts. So don''t bite people, because they might bite you back and then you''ll feel like you do right now"

I know that probably sounds like a horrible thing to do to a toddler, but man, she wouldn''t stop the biting. I can say that after I bit her back, she never bit anyone again.

But that is different to me, somehow. I am her parent. If I witnessed someone else hitting or hurting my daughter, I think I would just naturally feel protective. Gosh, I don''t know what to say, except that I can understand why you feel the way you do. And that you should talk to him to clear the air and make yourself feel better about it. I don''t think he meant to hurt her...perhaps it was a knee jerk reaction like I had with my kid. But dang, I would never have that reaction to someone elses child. At least I hope I never do. I am around children all the time and I get beat up a lot, but never intentionally....they are just children. I don''t know....this is a difficult one.

Hugs to you. And don''t be too hard on yourself. I admire your composure and restraint. In the end, maybe he will end up being harder on himself than you would have been on him.

 

[snowflakeluvr]

thanks hairgirl95,
whew-i was so afraid my respond posts would say that i should have started a cat fight right there on the floor! your words were just what i needed to "hear"!

sdl,
i''m a bit of a softie with my kids and discipline because i''ve never had to be too tough on them-they are all really good kids! if monica was sent to her room(she''s the 20yr old) for talking back, she''d clean it! my mom only had to give us "the look" which always set myself,my brother and my sister straight-we were not spanked either. my little one is strong-minded and i want her to obey authority(teachers) and know she has to listen. she''s not a wild child by any means, but her little wheels are always turning in there. thank you for your kind support-i really need it

miraclesrule,
thank you so much for posting. i slept on it and i know it''s going to eat away at that little gut part of me-i do believe it was a knee jerk reaction for him, not that that excuses it but i do think that is what happened. he seemed unsettled and upset over it too and he did apologize to my little daughter, but at that point, she wanted nothing to do with him. i am afraid though that it will forever slightly color the way i see him. i really love kids, even other peoples, and kids tend to gravitate toward me because i like them(young and older) uncle bill(as well as my best friend who''s married but childless) both have alway said how much they wanted children, but in both of them, i clearly see the lack of patience and focus that is needed to do this enormous job called being a parent. i know we all get set in our ways as time goes on, but i don''t know if either of these friends would have been great parent material, ya know?
ps i read your who''s who and really enjoyed reading about your life. everyone has a story, and until you know someone''s, we never really know who someone is. you''re interesting and a sweetie, too.
thanks everyone for posting. hopefully, i won''t dwell on this today.....
love, snow

 

[westjenn]

With 2 kids of my own I felt like I had to respond to your post. I am so sorry that you and your child had to deal with this! I would be utterly shocked and upset if a friend or another family member disciplined my child this way.

I was talking to a coworker about how we discipline our children and what it was like when we were kids and how we were disciplined by our parents and other adults. He said that where he was from, it was customary that parents spanked, slapped, disciplined neighbor children as they would their own, if for instance the neighbor kids were over.. This was 20 years ago..

In my book, the parent is solely responsible for disciplining his/her child not a friend, neighbor etc. no matter what. I''m sorry that you had to deal with this! I had a neighbor once discipline my child in front of me (not physically) but sometimes choice of words can be just as hurtful.... I was so upset and I actually couldn''t talk to her for a few days.. I purposefully kept my distance because I was afraid I would say something I might regret. Good luck in what you decide to do here.

 

[Deelight]

To me it sounds like it was a knee-jerk reaction, possibly he was caught by surprise - however it is not right for anyone to spank someone else''s child.

Have a chat to him and let him know how you feel and you don''t find this behaviour appropriate and see where it goes from there. I personally wouldn''t dissolve a friendship over it, but I can''t speak for how you feel. People make mistakes I would let my friend know how I feel and work from there.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/20/2008 2:41:00 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Whoa!! I actually had to get up and walk around before I decided to post.

You have every right to be upset. If I were you, I would talk to him about how it made you feel.

Because if he had said to me ''Why did she scratch me'' I would have said ''Ummm, because she''s 3 and she''s a kid and I''m sure she didn''t mean to hurt you''

But I have to admit that before I could even say that I would have said ''Did you just hit my kid? I can''t believe you just hit my kid!!''

I would have wanted to hit him back, but that would just be teaching my kid that hitting was okay.

Although that would make me a bit of a hypocrite, because my daughter went through a hair pulling phase and a biting phase. Once I was talking to a friend and she wanted my attention and when she didn''t get it immediately she bent over and bit me on the thigh...really hard too!! My knee jerk reaction was to grab her arm and bite her back. She started crying, and I said to her ''How did that feel? That hurts doesn''t it? Now you know what it feels like when you bite people. It hurts. So don''t bite people, because they might bite you back and then you''ll feel like you do right now''

I know that probably sounds like a horrible thing to do to a toddler, but man, she wouldn''t stop the biting. I can say that after I bit her back, she never bit anyone again.

But that is different to me, somehow. I am her parent. If I witnessed someone else hitting or hurting my daughter, I think I would just naturally feel protective. Gosh, I don''t know what to say, except that I can understand why you feel the way you do. And that you should talk to him to clear the air and make yourself feel better about it. I don''t think he meant to hurt her...perhaps it was a knee jerk reaction like I had with my kid. But dang, I would never have that reaction to someone elses child. At least I hope I never do. I am around children all the time and I get beat up a lot, but never intentionally....they are just children. I don''t know....this is a difficult one.

Hugs to you. And don''t be too hard on yourself. I admire your composure and restraint. In the end, maybe he will end up being harder on himself than you would have been on him.

LOL Miraclesrule, that made me chuckle a bit. Yes, it sounds horrible, but from what I''ve seen, it works. My best friend did the same thing with her son. She bit him lightly but firmly and he definitely didn''t like it. It was all it took and he never bit again. Their friend, who has the same age son is a serious biter and hitter. His mother just tells him "that''s not nice" or "don''t do that" but he persists in physical attacks.

I believe in proper spanking when it is appropriate, if you haven''t guessed already.

Anyway, to the OP, I would have been annoyed too. While I believe in swat now and then, I would never do that to anyone''s child but my own, nor would I want someone else to take disciplining my child into their own hands. That''s my job and I would take it seriously enough that someone else wouldn''t have to. It did sound like knee jerk reaction so hopefully you can work out your feelings and not begrudge him too much.

 

[snowflakeluvr]

thanks to all of you dazzling diamondgirls,

you are all too sweet

. i am grateful. well, our friend called this morning to check on the little princess and he apologized again-i said your exact words, that it seemed "like a knee jerk reaction" and he said yes, but he never should have done it. so my day has been filled with other angst and that issue has more or less been forgiven.
sounds corny, but dh and i are moving to another state, our 2nd begins college this fall and we kind of feel like we are getting a fresh start-we have had mucho up and downs(plenty of those) in our marriage and it''s strange, seems like we are finally, finally getting into a flow, where we feel emotionally close and are looking to each other for support like never before. couple that with me seeing a couple of meaningful movies this weekend(mamma mia, and rented the bucket list and watched with 18yr old son-loved it!) and with some hormones thrown in, and i have been a tearful mess all weekend. i realize that life is fleeting and things can change in an instant. i have always been a big worrier(wonderfully passed down from MY mother) and i think i am finally able to feel the joy of my life and appreciate things in all of their glory. make sense? i don''t want to sound trivial but i really do feel like my heart is somehow softening, particularly where it involves my marriage. so i want to forgive my good friend and move on.
thanks again to all of you lovelies!
ps sdl, i agree, kids today are far more fresh and brash than we would ever have been to our parents! can''t believe how entitled and demanding many kids seems...drives me nuts. i hope to think my children see the world a little differently. having a large amount of children forces your children to be less selfish-you simply don''t have the time nor the means to give everyone every moment or thing that they want. for that, having all these kids has been great, imo.

 

[LaraOnline]

I would understand that your child may have inadvertently violated his sense of personal space, and forgive him for momentarily losing control.
Most people are not used to children. Even people who have children prefer ''other people''s children'' to climb over them, touch their face, etc etc.
But I try to avoid the children sharing personal space with him anymore.
He''s obviously fairly stressed by their presence.

 

[miraclesrule]

Yayayaya snowflake, I am so glad that you feel better about the whole incident. I am also glad that your friend felt properly "guilty", although I hate using that term. And nothing, NOTHING in the world beats forgiveness, it is the true miraclemaker!!

Good for you! I love kids too as you must know from reading my thread (Thank you for your kind words). I found out there is a term for those of us who want to be parents forever. It's called "Permaparenting" Isn't that cool??? We even have a name.

Alas, I have to wait for a grandchild. I would have one by now if I had followed by knee jerk reaction and locked my daughter up and bred her myself.

SDL, it is so true that a lot of kids are so disrespectful to their parents. I used to hear my daughter's friend talk to her Mom over the phone and I was horrified. As it turns out, her Mother wasn't really worthy of a great deal of respect, but sheesh, in a situation like that, one hopes that the apple falls very, very, far from the tree.

ETA: I almost forgot to comment on your opening heart (and hormones) It reminded me of a Rumi quote that I will probably butcher all over the place, but goes something like " "The universe will break your heart, over, and over, and over, and over again....until it stays open" <-------- I like.