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Corporate Law/HR Question

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nclrgirl

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 13, 2008
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586

Hi. Any lawyers or HR people out there? I have a bit of a situation. I''m leaving my current company, and they have been paying for grad school. The policy is that I have to repay everything that was covered in the past year. I have no problem with this, except for two things:


1) HR at my company is saying that I have to pay back the money in full before I leave on my last day. This is NOT in the policy. (I was hoping to use my signing bonus for my new job to pay it, which would come roughly one month after I leave my old job.)
2) I haven''t "officially" given notice (i.e. in writing) yet and HR at my company is threatening to garnish my wages to pay for this tuition.
3) I know of 3 or 4 people who have left my company in the last 2 years to go to customers of my company who also owed money but were never billed for it.

Does anyone know what my rights are? Can I use "preferential treatment" of ex-employees going to customers to try to get them to ease up and let me pay them when my signing bonus from the new job comes through?


Thank you!
 

saltymuffin

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
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225
I am no expert, but I wouldn't bring up other cases of people not having to pay back $. Try to get them to respect the policy and indicate that you will too.

Make clear to HR that you haven't given your notice yet. I might even say something like "I haven't even decided for sure what I am doing".

My guess is that they are concerned you won't pay, that is why they want the $ from you now. If you don't pay, they likely have to take you to court, which would cost them $$$. Perhaps, when you do give notice, ask them for an invoice or something with a due date. That gives them something concrete that they have issued you.
 

Bia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
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6,181
I don't have a lot of info, so its hard to say but for HR to threaten to garnish wages to ensure you pay in full BEFORE you leave sounds suspect--It does not sound like ANY company policy I have ever read (I'm an HR grad student and spent a good amount of time last year going over employment laws)--most of the time they will work out some type of payment plan. Really you need to go by whatever the company policy states--its really the only way one can know. It is ridiculous for them to expect you to pay-in-full immediately. Can you tell us what the policy states for tuition reimbursement? Condensed of course. Typically a company will pro-rate you based on when you left. Are they asking that you reimburse them for the entire program, thus far, or for a certain semester? Unfortunately, I really need more information to be of any help. My best advice would be to talk to an attorney who specializes in labor and employment.

Hope it all works out in your favor!
 

nclrgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
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586
saltymuffin and Bia, Thank you very much for your replies.

I will owe them for everything that they paid within the last one year to last day of employment. I fully intend to pay back what I owe regardless of what others did (it''s the right thing to do). I just don''t understand why they can''t wait 30 days for payment, especially when some people never get billed at all.

I''ll include more details of the policy tomorrow (assuming it''s not proprietary information).

Thank you again!
 

VegasAngel

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
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1,533
I'm not in H.R. either but I agree that they want to make sure you pay. You mentioned 3 or 4 people in the past never paid, well that is probably why they are enforcing the policy now. That is a big mistake on someones part & they probably arent working there anymore.?
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I would sit down with them & re-confirm company procedures.
 

gailrmv

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 8, 2005
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3,136
Just wanted to say that I had a similar experience. I received a bonus when I started my first job and if I left before 2 years, I may be asked to pay back a prorated amount. This was a footnote in my offer letter and did not go into any specifics. I left after 1 year. Instead of them asking me for a check, they took it out of my wages on my last paycheck. Actually I think the amount WAS my entire paycheck. I had actually forgotten that I would owe the money back so I asked if I could extend my end date and was told no. Actually from the moment I gave my verbal notice (before even putting in my written notice) I was treated like a second class citizen there. I gave a month's notice, so it was a very long month!
 

nclrgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
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586
TDM, I''m sorry you went through this too! I have also really been harassed/taken advantage of since I verbally (as a COURTESY) told my manager that I''m leaving. And it''s been MONTHS! I''m trying to take another route now. My manager at the new job said that if I can get a federal student loan to pay my company back, the new-job organization will reimburse me. This will be tough, if not impossible to do, and I''m having trouble getting information. I guess it''s time for a new post!

Thank you all for your time and for sharing your experience!
 

divergrrl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
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2,224
You know, what is up with that? When I left my last employer (to go have a freakin'' baby) I knew i would not come back after maternity leave, so I didn''t feel like ripping them off for 4 months of pay (lots of folks do, and they were a big company, but I believe in karma) and then not returning.

So I gave a MONTH''S notice. I figure that was enough time to get my accounts in order, transiton a new person and also be of any assistance to my clients. nooooooooooooooooooooooooo....I was basically treated like crud. I spent more evenings until 7 or 8pm getting files cleaned up & tying up loose ends regarding client credits, fires, things that were of utmost importance.

By the time I left, my direct supervisor had a catalog of EVERY single thing to do with every client.

Not only was I treated horribly during my last month, but my boss let all the files sit unattended for FOUR MONTHS before she gave them to someone else. By that time there were hundreds of angry large business clients. The new exec who took my place was complaining about the mess I left her (she came on quite a bit after I left). Fortunately my friends who worked there told her that I''d made sure to get everything in order...my stupid boss was to blame. (not surprising, story of my life working for her)

arghhhh...you extend a COURTESY by being upfront, helping out, trying to make transitions smooth, keeping your bridges clear & communications open & you get treated like CRAP! I even got screwed out of a few grand of paychecks, but just let it go. I was too morning sick to care. And I got my BA paid for, so I figured we were even.

I mean, I had one job, where the work was so proprietary, that if you gave your notice & were staying in the industry, you were escorted out IMMEDIATELY, by armed security. You did not even get to pack your desk (They pack & ship personal items home to you). Of course I knew that before I left, but even when I did (and for a competitor) I was treated better. And the HR lady was cool enough to let me grab anything valuable (but I''d already cleared my personal stuff) before security got there.

World''s weird.
 

miraclesrule

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
4,442
Employers can be brutal. When I was using a tuition assistance program, I knew that if I didn''t complete the class with a certain grade that I would be expected to pay it back. Knowing that I was considering another offer, I negotiated with the new employer to pick up the costs that I would have to pay my employer for leaving during the training. Because the completion of the training would also benefit my new employer (and the class was coincidentally being held on the new employer premises), they agreed and wrote me a check upon hire for the amount I had to pay back. Therefore, my suggestion would be to talk it over with your new employer.

I also negotiate immediate health benefits or for the new employer to cover my Cobra payments for the months I am not yet eligible for benefits with the new employer.

That is just one of the necessary pro and con items when switching employers in the middle of something like that. I don''t know if it is legal to dock your pay. It is in some states, and not in others. If you have a Flex Savings Medical plan, I would simply get even by getting a bunch of doctor''s appts in and recover those costs before you leave. That is one risk that employers take on with those benefits. If you set aside 1000-2000 a year for medical benefits and you have a huge bill in February for $1500 then it is immediately payable to you, even though you haven''t worked the whole year and the deductions are made over the calender year. So, if you have that plan, it''s one way to recoup the money in a way that can''t control. I work in HR, so I know am known for the strategic analysis. We sometimes even consider that before someone is let go. Usually though, if we want to terminate someone really bad, we will take the loss.
 

Po10472

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
1,443
Hiya, I am an HR professional in the UK however the process should still be the same.

Do you have a contract of employment and a copy of your schedule of terms and conditions? What does is say about repaying fees in there? As well as this, did you sign a document relating to your study fees? Is there a policy and procedure on this? Again, what does it say?

What you need to do is read all of these documents and find out what the companies policy is here. Legally, the company cannot take any money out of your paycheck unless it clearly states this in the documents I mentioned above. The repayment of fees should have been set up as a seperate agreement to your pay and therefore you need to consult with HR or payroll to arrange repaying this. Technically this means you are a debtor to the company so you should be able to pay the full amount within 28 days and be invoiced for this. Again, this may be something that only applies to the UK, I don''t know.

I agree with others in that you shouldn''t mention what has gone before unless you have written evidence to substantiate your claim, but I would always consult your contract/t&c''s and request everything in writiing from HR as of now, if you haven''t done so before.

If I can help with anything else, let me know.

cheers

Po
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