Calling all Dog Experts!

[Libster]

This may be a long post, so get that cup of coffee, tea, soda...etc

We were a two dog family until last September when we lost our miniature schnauzer to cancer. This left us with our 14 yr old shih tzu. She has adapted quite nicely to being an "only" and we have been going through the grief stages of losing our baby and loving her. I got an unexpected call from a friend last night asking if we might be interested in a miniature schnauzer. One of her co-workers has a sister who is looking to give her dog up for adoption. Apparantly she and her husband and two children purchased this puppy last July with hopes of having a wonderful family member. I don''t think they were prepared for what it takes to raise a dog. So my questions began...... He is a male and turned 1yr on 4/1/05. He has not been neutered, as her husband had hoped to breed him. He has never been crate trained, is not house broken and is left alone for the majority of the day. Soooooo you see we will have a handful if we adopt this little guy. We had him brought to our home this evening and he has a wonderful disposition and has a lot of potential. He warmed up to us immediately, like he''d been here forever. Just a little angel.

Our number one consideration is Chelsea, our shih tzu. She does not have the most easy going personality and is very stubborn and set in her ways. She will take a while to warm up to him and to establish their boundaries. I do think it''s a workable situation, but he is only 1 and will want her to play and she will not have any of that. We have no children and I work from home, so I have lots of time to devote to this task. Here is where my questions come in for you wise ones.

If we decide we are up for the challenge, should we address this 1 yr old as we would a puppy, with the crate training, etc.? He wants to mark everything right now, and I''m not sure he really understands the difference between inside and outside when it comes to that. We will plan to have him neutered (sorry men) as soon as possible and I wonder if that will cut down on this "marking" instinct? We also plan on going to obedience training, which we have never done before, but know that it is a must with this little man. Chelsea has free run of the house and sleeps in her bed next to ours at night. We have no trouble with her in any area...she is just moody at times. How do I handle nightime with both of them? Do I bring the new guy and his crate into the bedroom? Will this create resentment? I have so many questions. We are going to sleep on this and make a decision tomorrow as to whether this little one will be coming here to live. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated

 

[Libster]

BUMP
I know this isn''t a diamond question, but I know there are lots of experienced dog owners out there....yoooohoooooo come out, come out, wherever you are

Please anyone, tell me I''ve lost my mind to consider taking this wild child. Tell me that it will be my worst nightmare. Tell me that my life just must not be crazy enough and go ahead, take the plunge! Anything....anyone?!

Just looking to pick your brain for suggestions, ideas, thoughts.....anything.

Thank you in advance for the help

 

[AGBF]

Libster,

I was writing a reply to you last night when my daughter came in and grabbed the computer. I am sorry you didn't know I cared enough to reply! On the other hand, I had no useful advice.

My neighbor is dealing with the problem of two dogs, one of whom was "first". The older, male, bigger dog does not want to share attention with the younger one. She and her husband have been struggling with the two dogs, but are making some progress.

I adopted my current dog when he was two. There was no other dog in the house, but raising him was *not* the same as raising a dog from puppyhood. He already had some ideas about how the world should work!

I want to encourage you that you can do this if you want to, but caution you that it may take a *lot* of work! (And, then, again, it may not!)

I am sorry I have no advice to offer about the crates. I have never used them. Good luck and keep us posted!

Deb

 

[Libster]

Thank you Deb,

I appreciate your time. Your comments are exactly what I''m hoping to hear from people. I need to know if anyone has embarked on such an adventure and what happened. My little girl, Chelsea, or old lady(like me) ...I should say, was not happy at all to meet him. He would run circles around her in the play stance and hop from her head to her tail. All the while she would just show those teeth, growl and lunge to snap wherever she thought he might land next....LOL

It was comical to watch, but she was mad at us for the rest of the night...LOL. A little background on her, we adopted her when she was 3 and our mini was 4. Our mini was so happy to have her and she accepted him after a couple of weeks. Over the years we would travel to my families home where there are two large female dogs and it has taken quite a few scuffles for Chelsea to establish "I am the top dog wherever I go"

. When we visit my family now, there are no problems and they tread lightly around Chelsea. She is quite capable of adapting to another dog, but you''re right it will be a challenge.

Again, thanks for the words of wisdom!

 

[belle]

hey libster! i don''t have any real helpful advice as i have not gone through your particular situation before, but i wanted to offer that there are many good dog training books out there that address most, if not all, of your questions.
some recommendations:

ABC Practical Guide to Dog Training by Steven Appelbaum

Dog-Friendly Dog Training by Andrea Arden

Puppies for Dummies by Sarah Hodgson

i think this could be a very rewarding situation, even if it does take a little work!

best of luck to you!

 

[fire&ice]

The only thing you can do is try. Your older dog was setting the boundries up front. In any multiple dog household, it is YOU that must establish itself as the "one". In other words, "It's not Carly's GOrilla. It's not Gus's GOrilla. It's MOMMY'S GOrilla." All dogs look to you for guidance - but for the most part you don't interfere w/ their relationship.

That being said, neutering the dog now may have no impact as the ""male" stuff may already be a pattern. But, neutering can help down the road. It depends how much male stuff the dog exhibits. Females will mark as well.

We became a two dog household well over 10 years ago. The first introduction was not the easiest. We took in a rescue (we were her 4th or 5th home). She had all kinds of baggage. It was bliss in the beginning. Then the honeymoom phase wore off. My male was a very dominent dog. I completed his championship & he ruled the roost and any venue he attended. Then he realized the "bitch" was here to stay & she made the mistake of taking his bone. A major fight happened which I had to break up. BOTH knew how displeased I was. I put them in a doggie down forceably being on both of them. After that night, they were fast and furious friends. They always did have a "bone of contention";but, both seemed to know that the bones were mine. Their relationship lasted about 6 years. After my male died, my female started to exhibt some behavioural problems. I took her to obedience class (it's never too late) & she really got back on track (as well as her little self could). Ever since then we have had two more introductions which were fairly free of any discourse & in fact, welcomed. I love having two & they seem to thrive in that environment.

So, you can only try. The first introduction is usually best on neutral ground like a fenced in area (we used the boarding facilities lot). Whenever another dog is meeting another dog, make sure the leash is loose & not constricting (if you are using a leash). Take BOTH dogs to obedience school right away and make it fun. Set YOUR house rules.

Most dogs adapt quite easily. But, a few don't. The best thing is to establish yourself as 'supreme commander'

but let them have at it. Monitor the situation - don't involve yourself in the situation unless it's necessary to keep the peace. Make sure they don't hurt each other. Really look with your eyes. Mine can look like they are killing each other - they don't even connect. They are just playing. Wrestling is great fun. They have their issues. My female will push my male away so she is in front for prime petting. He just keeps his groung and rolls his eyes. I continue to pet him. She gets rather ignored until she settles down.

Just my experience. Having been in charge of the kennels & training at our rescue facility, I rarely experienced two dogs that clearly didn't get along or at least just ignored one another. Sometimes we had as many as 7 dogs at a time. But, there always is some dogs that are dog agressive, usually because of lack of socialization. Sounds like both dogs has been around other dogs.

All I can say is good luck. Having two is grand. I have to say that, though (obviously) the new dog won't replace the old, it does help fill a whole left in your heart.

Revised to say that I never took my dog to a ROAST

. He ruled the ROOST.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/3/2005 10:17:19 AM
Author: belle
hey libster! i don''t have any real helpful advice as i have not gone through your particular situation before, but i wanted to offer that there are many good dog training books out there that address most, if not all, of your questions.
some recommendations:

ABC Practical Guide to Dog Training by Steven Appelbaum

Dog-Friendly Dog Training by Andrea Arden

Puppies for Dummies by Sarah Hodgson

i think this could be a very rewarding situation, even if it does take a little work!

best of luck to you!

Reading does help you understand dog. They don''t have the same view of life that humans do.

Two books I really like because they are almost opposites:

The New Art of Dog Training - Shelby Marlo

The Art of Raising a puppy
How to be your dog''s best friend. - both by the Monks of New Skete

Training a dog really is an ART because you have to tailor the training to the little individual that is YOUR dog.

 

[jorman]

When I was in college my mom had an ole momma dachshund, Chelsea, who was set in her ways and very content on the being the queen of the roost. She wasn''t much for playing as she was retired and enjoy basking in the sun on the terrazo tile. Well, mom took home 2 new dachshund puppies, Utopia (Topi) and Noah. Chelsea didn''t like them much at first, but she grew to love them and took them under her wing. They made a little family and every once in a while she would surprise us and have a romp with the puppies and you could see a litte frisky smile come over her little greyed face. I think you might be surprised how your senior takes to this new litle guy.

As for training, I say definitly get him neutered and definitly treat him as a new puppy. He''s not too old to learn and having him neut. will help to cut any of those manly urges. Be prepared for it to take about 6 months for all of those hormones to go away completely. It also may not hurt to go to obedience classes with him just to get a jump start. It sounds like you would make a good mom to him. Does he have a name?

Good luck!

 

[Erin]

I''d be fearful of the stress put on your older dog. At fourteen, a puppy could drive you bonkers IMHO

 

[Matata]

I agree with Erin. Just my humble opinion, but I''ve always believed that an elderly companion deserves to live his/her last days in peace and as the center of attention.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 10:32:48 AM
Author: fire&ice
Revised to say that I never took my dog to a ROAST

. He ruled the ROOST.

Well...this is certainly a tangent . (My contribution, I mean, not yours.) I missed seeing the posting where you (apparently) said your dog "ruled the roast" and just wanted to let you know that that is an absolutely fine equivalent. In fact, I am not sure that the phrase didn''t start as being "rule the roast". Weren''t you born in England? (I remember some early English life.) According to Georgette Heyer, in the early 1800''s one "ruled the roast" as opposed to the "roost". Maybe you heard that while in the cradle and it stayed with you .

Deb

 

[Libster]

Thank You!!! Thank You!!! Thank You!!!

I want to hear all comments whether it''s Don''t dare do that to Chelsea, or give it a go. I welcome all your thoughts

Thank your for all the dog book references, it''s been awhile since we did the new dog thing and I need a refresher. I''m really thinking long and hard about the possible negative effect on Chelsea. She has missed Dieter as much as we have and this new dog, Dasani, is a very gentle soul and I think would adapt to her and make her feel comfortable given a little time and lots of hard work.

Again, I really appreciate your time and honesty and will keep you guys informed of what we decide

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/3/2005 11:33:12 AM
Author: Matata
I agree with Erin. Just my humble opinion, but I''ve always believed that an elderly companion deserves to live his/her last days in peace and as the center of attention.

Respectfully, that''s really not a doggie take on life. Dogs truly love to be in a pack.

The older dog will act like the new one is an interloper. It''s establishing it''s established position. So, it''s not surprising that the intial meeting went the way it did.

More importantly, how healthy is this dog? Small dogs can live to be 20. A dog at 14 is a senior, but not necessarily in the twilght of life. Our mini schnauzer lived to be 19. Blind, crippled & crazy

, he had tons of life in him. And, still tumbled with our cat. I wasn''t sure if the dog thought he was a cat or the cat thought she was a dog. They slept together all curled up in the same bed.

And, it really sounds like Libster wants to adopt this dog. Companionship is a core w/ dogs.

 

[fire&ice]

AGBF - wasn''t born in England. But, did learn to talk there. Though I doubt I would have been discussing ruling the roast.

But, as an aside, I do use some very British types of talk. Sometimes I even spell the English way.

 

[strmrdr]

Roll the new dog over and lightly hold it on the ground.
Doe it allow you to without growling or nipping?
If it does either then it is not a good canidate for a household with a dominant dog allready in place.
They will fight.

 

[Mara]

re: dominance in dogs...there are no cut and dry or extremes such as the test strm is talking about...

we have a neighbor who has a VERY dominant female llhasa...they brought a small mini pinscher in who was also dominant...he was about a year old, a rescue. the llasa is a few years old.

anyhow, the mini pinscher who was normally dominant was quickly shown by the llhasa who the boss was. now the pinscher is very passive when it comes to the llhasa and they are able to play and have fun together.

of course there were some initial fights im sure...but i am a huge fan of letting dogs just work things out on their own as are these owners..and now their dogs get along just fine.

as long as blood is not shed, the dogs WILL figure it out. i think that people tend to intervene too much or worry about what ifs ...when you could just see what happens. there are many times in the park when portia runs up to greet someone and someone snaps at her. i just let her work it out...there have only been one or two times when i have had to get involved and pull her away...most of the time the dogs know when they can or cannot be aggressive or friendly with other dogs and they act accordingly.

there is another dog in the park, a tiny chihauahua that hates other dogs, very intimidated. the owner would pick her up every time another dog came near. the chi would snap it''s little teeth at the other dogs and then paw on the mom''s leg to get up. she would pick her up. yet she was telling us she was hoping for her to be more social. so i told her..well why do you pick her up all the time? that is teaching her that as another dog comes up, it''s alright for her to snap at them and then be picked up. it''s a pattern. the mom said..well i dont want her to hurt any other dogs or bite them. at that...me and another doggie mom laughed and said...honestly what damage do you think your tiny chi mouth is going to do to our fur laden rats?? this dog''s mouth is TINY and her teeth are miniscule. she actually said...you know you are right!

so she started leaving the chi on the ground to fend for itself when other dogs would come up. the chi snapped it''s teeth and tried pawing the leg. the mom didn''t pick her up. the dog never actually went after another dog, she''s pretty passive in general. it''s been a few months now, we have seen them out there a few times and the chi is finally making progress. she doesn''t snap at all the dogs anymore and still paws the leg but isn''t AS freaked out by other dogs. she even chased and ran with portia one day (until P got too excited and tried to wrestle with her which freaked her out...hehe). anyhow the mom is much happier now that she realizes her dog won''t hurt anyone...and the dog actually seems to like one or two dogs.

in my humble opinion, you can teach an old dog new tricks...this includes dogs that were dominant if you want to incorporate them into a household with another dominant dog or even teach them to get along with other dogs. but it takes ALOT of patience.

Does anyone watch Good Dog U or the Dog Whisperer? watching these shows shows that you CAN teach dogs things you may not have thought possible...it''s just about the method and the time you can invest.

 

[fire&ice]

Yeah, what Mara said. Honestly, people should learn more from dogs, especially about getting along and conflict resolution. But, I could leave all that butt sniffing.

- which is a doggie HELLO!

Also, male female combos seem to work the best. It''s funny - the males usually defer to the females. At least that''s what I see & what I hear.

 

[Mara]

re: the original issue...Libster I think it would do your household good to have this new dog...

since he is only 1 year old I would treat him like a puppy and do all the basic training with him as you figure out what he does know and what he needs to learn. obedience training ASAP is great and it helps you bond with the dog.

your old gal will show him what is what in the house and i''m sure they will have a spat or two as they figure things out...but i think eventually they will work it out. my parent''s beagle didn''t like P at first, she is 8 and P was a young strapping, irritating puppy who always wanted to get into Molly''s face. my mom was freaking out re: P getting hurt...I told her just let them figure it out! now that P has been nipped at a few times by M and she is also older...she knows the boundaries and doesn''t just try to hop onto Molly anymore...they can hang out in the yard together with all of us and ignore each other, or play, or sniff each other''s butts...M for the most part still doesn''t adore P...but she tolerates her. there are a few times still when M kind of gets snippy, aka when we are petting her and P comes up and sniffs her or bothers her...but they don''t spend that much time togther. I think in a 24/7 household situation, it works itself out.

so i say keep the new guy! sounds like he could liven things up a bit..

 

[Matata]

Date: 6/3/2005 12:22:46 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 6/3/2005 11:33:12 AM
Author: Matata
I agree with Erin. Just my humble opinion, but I''ve always believed that an elderly companion deserves to live his/her last days in peace and as the center of attention.

Respectfully, that''s really not a doggie take on life. Dogs truly love to be in a pack.

The older dog will act like the new one is an interloper. It''s establishing it''s established position. So, it''s not surprising that the intial meeting went the way it did.

More importantly, how healthy is this dog? Small dogs can live to be 20. A dog at 14 is a senior, but not necessarily in the twilght of life. Our mini schnauzer lived to be 19. Blind, crippled & crazy

, he had tons of life in him. And, still tumbled with our cat. I wasn''t sure if the dog thought he was a cat or the cat thought she was a dog. They slept together all curled up in the same bed.

And, it really sounds like Libster wants to adopt this dog. Companionship is a core w/ dogs.

All true F&I. But the human companions are also part of the pack so the presence of another canine isn''t particularly necessary for the happiness of a pooch residing in a single-pooch household. Libster said Chelsea is quite adapted to being the only pooch in the household so I couldn''t see a reason to upset the apple cart. And, although Libster does sound like she wants another dog, doing what''s best for Chelsea takes priority IMHO. Libster is obviously taking everything into consideration and she will make the best decision for her & her household.

 

[Libster]

You know, Pricescope has the best members. Each of you have given me great ideas, advice and things to take into consideration. Storm, it''s funny that you mention that test. My husband was playing with him and he rolled onto his back with his mouth open, completely submissive and no agression. He was testing to see if he could put his hand in his mouth and there was no problem. For fun I''m attaching a picture of Chelsea sitting with her daddy!

 

[Matata]

She''s a cutie. Sitting up there on her throne, ruling the roast, er, I mean roost

 

[fire&ice]

I just want to add that dogs really do grieve. And, as with people, time heals the heart for them. They become content and at peace. But, each and everytime I''ve introduced another pup to the dog left behind a spring sprung into their step. When my gal died this summer, Gus went into a blue funk. In fact, that''s pretty much when I stopped the Therapy stuff. He was not himself. With time, and starting agility training, he came around to be himself. But as soon as he knew GOrilla girl was here to stay, he''s happy again instead of just being content. You can tell there is genuine affection.

My Heidi (old girl) had some "guidance issues" when my male (very dominent) died. We spent extra time with her, she seemed perfectly content & it appeared that she may not accept another dog. In fact, I told the breeder that Heidi was my number one & if the puppy wasn''t a good mix, he was the one leaving. After an introduction, the two immediately started playing w/ Gus diving under the couch (BTW, it was a sad reality to him when he got to big to dive under - and a big knot on his head to boot). I couldn''t believe it. They took to each other really well.

Really, while Libster is definitely part of the pack (the most important part), dogs like doggy companions to do doggy stuff. That''s one of the reasons why it''s not advised to get litter mates. The bond is too strong to develop a more unnatural bond to a person.

And, at the end of the day, I think it will do Libster good. Something to consider is that the new dog is going to a good home. From the pic, Chelsea looks like she has some life in her. She doesn''t look 14.

It''s just not the same when I assume the puppy bow position.

Yet, they have no problem with each others "bow".

 

[Matata]

Date: 6/3/2005 3:56:32 PM
Author: fire&ice
IIt''s just not the same when I assume the puppy bow position.

Yet, they have no problem with each others ''bow''.

Sooooo, at the risk of sounding like a total nut case, I''m gonna share this story. During my days as a wildlife rehabilitator, I had to learn to "talk fox." Every spring the airport would smoke bomb fox dens located near the runways, scare off the mothers and bring the kits to the rehab center. The kits were of mixed ages, not all were weaned, so hands-on care was required. The challenge was to raise them without imprinting them on humans. What to do? We studied the vocalizations, body language, and facial expressions of the older pups and imitated them as best we could. And before your imagination runs toooo wild, there was no interspecies butt sniffing.

However, I did learn how to whine, bark, purr, and grumble like a fox. Also imitated their body postures -- always either a frightening or hilarious thing for an observer to come across a rehabber trying to contort a human body into a stance that is just not natural. We had 100% successful releases but I always wondered what the completely wild foxes who ran into our foxes who learned fox interpreted through a human "thought" about them. I suppose you could say our foxes spoke with an accent.

 

[ammayernyc]

Date: 6/3/2005 5:26:34 PM
Author: Matata

Date: 6/3/2005 3:56:32 PM
Author: fire&ice
IIt''s just not the same when I assume the puppy bow position.

Yet, they have no problem with each others ''bow''.

Sooooo, at the risk of sounding like a total nut case, I''m gonna share this story. During my days as a wildlife rehabilitator, I had to learn to ''talk fox.'' Every spring the airport would smoke bomb fox dens located near the runways, scare off the mothers and bring the kits to the rehab center. The kits were of mixed ages, not all were weaned, so hands-on care was required. The challenge was to raise them without imprinting them on humans. What to do? We studied the vocalizations, body language, and facial expressions of the older pups and imitated them as best we could. And before your imagination runs toooo wild, there was no interspecies butt sniffing.

However, I did learn how to whine, bark, purr, and grumble like a fox. Also imitated their body postures -- always either a frightening or hilarious thing for an observer to come across a rehabber trying to contort a human body into a stance that is just not natural. We had 100% successful releases but I always wondered what the completely wild foxes who ran into our foxes who learned fox interpreted through a human ''thought'' about them. I suppose you could say our foxes spoke with an accent.

Oh my goodness -- you have the coolest job EVER!
I would love to rehab or foster animals. A little difficult to do living in NYC... but I can dream!

 

[Libster]

Date: 6/3/2005 5:26:34 PM
Author: Matata

Date: 6/3/2005 3:56:32 PM
Author: fire&ice
IIt''s just not the same when I assume the puppy bow position.

Yet, they have no problem with each others ''bow''.

Sooooo, at the risk of sounding like a total nut case, I''m gonna share this story. During my days as a wildlife rehabilitator, I had to learn to ''talk fox.'' Every spring the airport would smoke bomb fox dens located near the runways, scare off the mothers and bring the kits to the rehab center. The kits were of mixed ages, not all were weaned, so hands-on care was required. The challenge was to raise them without imprinting them on humans. What to do? We studied the vocalizations, body language, and facial expressions of the older pups and imitated them as best we could. And before your imagination runs toooo wild, there was no interspecies butt sniffing.

However, I did learn how to whine, bark, purr, and grumble like a fox. Also imitated their body postures -- always either a frightening or hilarious thing for an observer to come across a rehabber trying to contort a human body into a stance that is just not natural. We had 100% successful releases but I always wondered what the completely wild foxes who ran into our foxes who learned fox interpreted through a human ''thought'' about them. I suppose you could say our foxes spoke with an accent.

Matata,
That is without a doubt one of the funniest stories I''ve ever heard....I''m still LMAO!!!!!!

Well guys, we are off to pick up Dasani and begin our new adventure. We decided to provide a nice home for this little guy. We will be visiting the vet first thing in the morning for a check-up and shots and to make the neuter appointment for next week. We have cleared all plans for the weekend and will be just doing Dog! There will be lots of bowing going on

I''ll take his pic and post for you guys to see what a cutie he is....maybe one of he and Chelsea together....yeah right!

I''m taking a deep breath and starting the next chapter in this game called life

 

[Jennifer5973]

Libster, I gave my thoughts in the Pms, but after reading all the other thoughtful responses in the thread, I want to reiterate that I think it could work out. Let us know how you do.

 

[fire&ice]

Curious about your first night.

 

[Libster]

In case you don''t want to read the blow by blow....we are doing really well and feel lucky to have Dasani as a family member....Chelsea is warming up to him too

Now for the details...........................................


We made it!!! Last night we went to Petsmart and loaded up on a kennel, dog bed, baby gates, etc. My husband just rolled his eyes as the $$$ were growing. I quickly reminded him that we discussed all of the costs up front and he agreed, so get over it

He smiled, because he is truly excited. Dieter was his dog and he is sooo looking forward to creating a bond with Dasani. The lady brought Dasan to Petsmart and we loaded him into the car and were on our way.

When we got home, Chelsea was waiting, as always, by the front door, peering out one of the side windows as we drove into the driveway. She was able to see Dasani get out of the car and I decided we would come right into the front door and she would know what was coming. She surprised me......she just kind of stood there and let him get pretty close before the teeth were shown and the growling began. She was much better than the first introduction and this gave me peace that it just might work!!

We played for quite awhile in the backyard with him, while Chelsea supervised from her deck vantage point

My husband assembled the kennel and set up the baby gates to give us a partitioned area for all of us to start the process of living together.

One of my main concerns is that he has a marking problem, but I found this really wonderful velcro contraption that holds a pad and just velcros around the dog to help protect your home from "male marking" while we train him and have him neutered, in hopes of stopping this. This has been GREAT!!! Only once, while he and Chelsea were playing meet and greet, did he raise his leg on the coffee table. I gave a firm NO, quickly whisked him ouside, and told him to "go potty". I haven''t had it happen since, but know this is probably just luck.

We set his kennel up in the family room and put him in there for 1/2 hour while we did our normal family stuff and he was ok. No whining, nothing. He is amazing me so far.

We had our final outside time and everyone went to the masterberoom ...kennel and all. We put the kennel next to the bed on my husband''s side, as Chelsea sleeps on her bed on my side. I slid him in there with his "baby" and a treat and told him "night night". Chelsea did her normal routine and she was off to sleep rather quickly. Dasani had a restless night, which was definitely expected, but never a whine or a grumble. He didn''t like the sheepskin side of his bed and just fought that bed over and over for a couple of hours. I finally flipped the bed over to the suede side and this helped a bit, but he still just continued to dig and try to find a comfortable spot until he finally slept at around 5:00am.

Tired of reading yet?!! I just figured I would give you guys the blow by blow, since all of you were so kind to help me make this BIG decision.

My husband got up with him at 7:00am, now he actually spent from 11:00pm til then in that crate and no accident!!! What a good boy!!! My husband and I had agreed that he would get up with him and Chelsea and I would follow an hour or so later, giving him some alone time, as we had a vet appointment at 9:00am.

When we got up, my husband had him in his "man" room in the basement, and they were having a wonderful time together. He has already taught Dasani to sit and to stay!!!!! It''s great watching my husband bond with this little man!

Chelsea is even better today, and has established that she is in charge. She sucussfully herded him out of her turf and he just gave up and layed down and she did the same directly across from him, but next to me. It looked like some sort of stand off. She was eating her food earlier and he was right on her, sniffing, she only gave him a snarl and a small growl and he left her alone. It''s working.....and I actually think Chelsea is glad to have him around

We took him to the vet for his vaccinations and everything checked out fine...no heartworms...nothing!! He will be neutered on Wednesday!

One thing that we have found odd is that he really doesn''t bark or "schnauzer talk" like Dieter did. I quickly found out otherwise when we were leaving the vet. When we got there, no dogs were in the waiting room, but when were leaving it was packed. Dasani was sooooo excited and let out this sound that can only be described as the most horrifying alien squeal

I couldn''t get out of there fast enough, while my husband was left to settle the bill. This sound is like nothing I''ve ever heard an animal make. It actually hurt my ear drums and other people in the waiting room were commenting on the same thing. Imagine that this only took place for 30 seconds til we were out of eyeshot and smell of the other dogs, but it was something to be concerned about. I would have flipped out if the had done that noise last night. My ear still hurts. It''s strange, because he has seen other dogs continuously in the neighborhood on the outside of our fence, as we butt up to a walking trail. They have visited and he has had a small bark or two, but nothing like this sound

We have always boarded our dogs at this vet kennel and have to figure out someway to stop this "wookie sound" before he is not welcome at the kennel, for fear of hearing damage

So there you have it! Thank you all for your words of wisdom and encouragement and cautions. I''ll keep you posted and may come to you sometime with a question or two

PS. I''ll post pics later today!

 

[Mara]

yay sounds like a successful evening and morning!!

re: the wookie sound...i have found that there are dogs around here that get so excited when they see other dogs, if they are on a leash..but once you let them sniff and play with the dogs, they calm down. so maybe he was just super excited..he has been through alot recently!! so i''d wait to see if that repeats itself before you really worry, it also could have just been a one-off.

when P was a pup, she let out the most horrible howly screams, they made us shudder. 4 lbs and the noises coming out of her mouth were horrifying. especially the first new nights when she screamed for hours....amazing! i was shocked to hear that our neighbors never heard her, i was sure they would think we were torturing her in here, rather than just leaving her alone. well maybe that is torture.

 

[fire&ice]

Sounds like it''s working out. Keep in mind, this is the "honeymoon" phase.

Sometimes things get worse; but, bare in mind that when they get worse - they get better.

The best thing to do about the marking is to correct the behaviour. Neutering at this point may not solve the problem At some point, male behaviour (spawned by hormones) becomes "behaviour". And, the only thing to correct behaviour is to correct the behaviour. WOW - was that wordy. Get my point I hope.

Regarding the crate, he''s probably just not used to it. Routine is a dog''s friend & this isn''t his routine - YET.

Continue to put him in the crate w/ the usual routine & time frame. He''ll adjust pretty quick. Dogs are adaptable creatures - once the change becomes routine.

Here''s to continued success!