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Bummed about my son''s school. Public vs. Private school. . .

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MichelleCarmen

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Anyone make the choice to send their child(ren) to private school instead of public? I know this is a huge generalization since all schools are different, but overall are you happy with your choice?

Right now my older son is in 1st grade and my younger son will be starting Kindergarten next fall. The school we're going to is considered one of the best in the area, so we're lucky, I guess that my kids will be getting "top knotch" education. BUT, the problem is, we're not happy with the curriculum. Three weeks into the school year, the teacher is having the kids learn to count from 1-20. This is WAY below my son's abilities. Also, a packet was sent home describing what will be learned over the course of the year and it's hugely limited. I'm disapointed there is such a lack of challenge.

But, this is only 1st grade, right? Am I just expecting too much?

My husband is freaking out over the situation and wants to put the boys in private school. Keep in mind my husband has a degree in Physics, so he's easily horrified over the math situation.

Most of the kids we know who are in private school are in the main prestigious one that I plan to contact and ask for details regarding what will be taught during the 1st year of school. One of my friends says that the curriculum there is too hard and her grandsons are having a difficult time keeping up and may be transfered to a public school. So, what to do? I don't want my son stressed out, but I don't want him deprived of knowledge.

Also, the esteemed school is Christian, and I am not Christian! This is a huge deal to me since I'm agnostic. Does this even matter when the education will be superior?

The cost of the school isn't a huge concern to my husband, but it is another factor for me. It's about $5K per year, per child! I'm sure we can get my MIL to pay a bit of that. (lol)

Any thoughts or opinions? I'd love to hear any advice.
 

Allisonfaye

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Date: 10/1/2007 5:00:03 PM
Author:MC
Anyone make the choice to send their child(ren) to private school instead of public? I know this is a huge generalization since all schools are different, but overall are you happy with your choice?

Right now my older son is in 1st grade and my younger son will be starting Kindergarten next fall. The school we''re going to is considered one of the best in the area, so we''re lucky, I guess that my kids will be getting ''top knotch'' education. BUT, the problem is, we''re not happy with the curriculum. Three weeks into the school year, the teacher is having the kids learn to count from 1-20. This is WAY below my son''s abilities. Also, a packet was sent home describing what will be learned over the course of the year and it''s hugely limited. I''m disapointed there is such a lack of challenge.

But, this is only 1st grade, right? Am I just expecting too much?

My husband is freaking out over the situation and wants to put the boys in private school. Keep in mind my husband has a degree in Physics, so he''s easily horrified over the math situation.

Most of the kids we know who are in private school are in the main prestigious one that I plan to contact and ask for details regarding what will be taught during the 1st year of school. One of my friends says that the curriculum there is too hard and her grandsons are having a difficult time keeping up and may be transfered to a public school. So, what to do? I don''t want my son stressed out, but I don''t want him deprived of knowledge.

Also, the esteemed school is Christian, and I am not Christian! This is a huge deal to me since I''m agnostic. Does this even matter when the education will be superior?

The cost of the school isn''t a huge concern to my husband, but it is another factor for me. It''s about $5K per year, per child! I''m sure we can get my MIL to pay a bit of that. (lol)

Any thoughts or opinions? I''d love to hear any advice.
I am not at the point you are yet because my girls are 3.5 and 2 but I want to put them into private all girls schools when they are around 10 or 11 because I have heard that girls at that age stop caring about academics and start worrying about boys, clothes, makeup, etc. I know I did. But the only private schools around here are Catholic and although my husband is Catholic, I am not so I understand your concern. I am not exactly agnostic, but I don''t want my kids heads filled with a bunch of what I consider to be mythology.

I guess my first question would be HOW Christian is it? I could somewhat answer that myself if I knew where you lived.

Secondly, could you wait a few years? Do you think their education would be that far behind if you waited a few years to find out if you thought they could academically ''keep up'' at the private school? I certainly understand your concerns about costs. If you didn''t send them to private school, that same money could easily fund a very nice college education.
 

somethingshiny

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A close friend of mine has a 1st grade son. She just took him OUT of private school and put him IN public school. Her son is autistic and the teachers at the private school were unable to cope with his dilemmas. The public school was much better prepared to help the child. So, I understand that for this child to be better off in public school, an average child or above average child may be held back developmentally. I realize that this probably isn't going to help you, but it made a lightbulb go off with me.

Also FWIW, in our school district a child/parents have the option of taking "extra" classes. They usually run in the form of "aeronautics camp" or "your environment". These classes take place after school. The kids learn more about the specific theme, and then they are able to do intense projects. I think this really helps to keep some of the kids stimulated.

Good Luck!
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edit- I forgot to address the Christian School part. My in-laws have a school that's based in their church. From what they tell me, the only way you'd know it's Christian is that they say a prayer before meals. They don't allow vulgar language, bad behavior, disrespect, and vandalism just like any other school. Oh, and one thing that struck me...they teach not only abstinence, but also safe . (at jr and high school level) It's funny that it's the Christian school would be the one to actually realize that both need to be taught!
 

TravelingGal

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Take my opinion with a grain of salt, as I don''t have children...yet.

I would leave them in a public school, especially if private school is going to be a serious ding into your finances. I''m not opposed to private school if you can afford it...who wouldn''t want the best for your kids? But I am not convinced that private school is always the best. In fact, I am a big believer in public schools as long as you are actively involved in your kid''s life and education.

I went to public school every year except for the second grade, where my parents thought I was brilliant or something and decided to put me in a catholic school (we are not catholic). In fact, they thought the school was so tough, they initially put me BACK into first grade until the school said I was too ahead and put me into second part way through the year. I did great there too. Apparently smart enough that my parents pulled me out and put me back in public.

My mom had study time with me and taught me all kinds of stuff throughout grades 1-4, so I was always ahead in school (in the early years anyway). I felt smart, and the self confidence probably helped me when my mom couldn''t in school. I did fantastically well until I got into 10th grade, where I finally just burned out. Made me wonder why people (OK, my parents) push kids so hard to get straight A''s in 6th grade when it didn''t matter as much.

Anyway, back to the point. I think your kids would be fine. I''d also point out that if the school is Christian and you are not, that could be a problem. I was learning Catholic stuff in the second grade and my mom put me in even though she is protestant because she thought education was the most important thing. Well, I started learning things that she didn''t believe in and that was an issue.

On an interesting side note, I now live right across the street from my old private school and do remember it fondly.
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Mara

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private school doesn''t automatically equal great education just because you pay for it. i went to a fairly expensive private catholic school for junior high with my parents thinking i''d come out knowing more than staying in public school. my education at this school was sub par. i spent 2 summers catching up so that i could be back on the whole AP track for college.

on the same track, public school doesn''t mean a lower level education. my parents moved to a more expensive area for my younger sisters to be in one of the top school districts in northern california. the upside is that my youngest sister is more than ready for college. the downside is that the school is super competitive...so that even someone with a 4.0 GPA is considered mediocre and normal in terms of performance.

the other downside is that the kids are put through grueling amounts of homework....it seems like she is always doing homework. and HARD stuff. Greg has had to tutor her a few times and even he (with 2 degrees and an MBA) was saying ''wow this stuff is pretty hard. she seems definitely stressed out a lot of the time about school. definitely not the same as when we were in school.

i''d do the research and try to find a happy medium. not sure if you would consider moving to a school district where the public education is even better than the one you are in now. or find a private school where it''s not SO incredibly tough on the kids. there are different ranges out there from what i have seen.
 

KimberlyH

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I work for a public school district, the best in my area, and am not sure I''d send my own (nonexistant child/ren there). I think it really is child-dependant though, they are all so different and my choice would be based on what situation best meets the childs needs and capabilities. If my kid wasn''t being challenged I''d look into charter schools, magnet schools and private schools. Go observe in different classrooms, see what is going on in the same grade at other schools and then decide.
 

UCLABelle

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I thought I would add to this discussion, as I have a masters degree in education, and I went to both public and privates (for elementary and high)...

I am a firm believer that parents play the biggest role in a students education...And great, active parents can "make up" for a poor performing public schools. In addition, money used for a private school can be used (at a much lesser cost) for tutoring, educational traveling, and someday private college admissions counselors like I and my friends used to be...It is you the parent that makes the biggest difference.

What I hate most about the difference between private and public is not the education really, so much as the students. I personally hated private school. Kids, to me, were meaner, "stuck up" and at the public schools (depending on the location) while I found them to be "tougher", but much more "real". I understand your child is in first grade, so this may not be an issue now, but it may be someday.

By the way, $5000 a year is good for a private school...My parents paid about 10K years ago for me (and another 10K for my brother)....some cost more than private colleges....but for some it is worth it...
 

neatfreak

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Date: 10/1/2007 7:01:38 PM
Author: UCLABelle
I thought I would add to this discussion, as I have a masters degree in education, and I went to both public and privates (for elementary and high)...


I am a firm believer that parents play the biggest role in a students education...And great, active parents can 'make up' for a poor performing public schools. In addition, money used for a private school can be used (at a much lesser cost) for tutoring, educational traveling, and someday private college admissions counselors like I and my friends used to be...It is you the parent that makes the biggest difference.


What I hate most about the difference between private and public is not the education really, so much as the students. I personally hated private school. Kids, to me, were meaner, 'stuck up' and at the public schools (depending on the location) while I found them to be 'tougher', but much more 'real'. I understand your child is in first grade, so this may not be an issue now, but it may be someday.


By the way, $5000 a year is good for a private school...My parents paid about 10K years ago for me (and another 10K for my brother)....some cost more than private colleges....but for some it is worth it...

I completely agree with UCLABelle's post and I wouldn't personally put my hypothetical child in private school unless there was a compelling reason to (i.e., there was a fantastic magnet school for music and my child was totally into music). Just because it's private does NOT mean that it's better!! And not to mention that the kid is only in first grade for goodness sakes, give him a bit of time. Remember that school, especially at such a young age, is often about bigger lessons than counting to 20. It's about learning to listen to directions, to like all kinds of people even if they're different than you, etc.

I have many friends who went to private school because their parents thought it was better. Honestly, I got a much better education than some of my friends who went private. And I got it through talented and gifted programs, AP classes, and special interest clubs and classes. I also agree with Belle's point about kids at private schools. Now it totally depends on the school, but I too think that it is good for kids to be exposed to ALL TYPES of kids and people rather than being put with a number of kids who are just like them.

I don't think I missed out on anything by going to a public school, but I also had parents who really cared about my education at home and at school.
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Miranda

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While I think every family should make their own choice for the benefit of the family, I''m not a big fan of private school. Let''s face it, we learn a lot more that the ''three Rs'' in school. Cooperation with children with backgrounds different than our own is just one example. Most public schools I''ve seen have children from the same social class, ethnicity, economic status and religious background. There is just no diversity which I feel is a tremendously important part of life...Or dealing with diversity, I should say. As a parent of ''smart kids'' (for lack of a better term
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) myself and having dealt with some of these same issues, the first thing I would do is to check with the principal and district about the low standards. Is it possible that your son has a lazy teacher? Maybe a new classroom would benefit your son. Counting from 1-20 is something my four year old has been doing for two years now. That is not first grade material. It''s preschool stuff! I would be upset about the waste of time as well. Ditto what UCLA Belle said. Use your money to supplement the public school system. Get a great tutor or take a educational trips. This way your kids get the best of both worlds. I do agree that the religion conflict would be an issue. Because chapel, Bible learning, etc. will be a large portion of your kids day it may be confusing for them. Good luck with your decision!
 

Eva17

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If you feel your child needs more challenges, look into your local colleges. Some offer gifted programs, and some even offer it for early elemt. ages. It could be a great suppliment.

Most kids have nursery school under their belts before heading to public school, and are usually beyond the curiculum. They seem to review basic information for the first couple of years. And not to mention the day is full of fluff, trying to prepare children for all the state exams. This drives my crazy!!!!!


I am sure there are many teachers on this forum that would agree that there isn''t enough time in the day now because they need to meet the requirements for all the testing.....

I believe this is why there is much more homework these days. The work gets sent home since there isn''t enough time in the day to cover it. I would give anything to have homework BANNED. It has no benefit.

There is one plus for private, no state testing.
 

monarch64

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I definitely don''t believe in the whole public vs. private and whether one''s better thing. But, I attended both private and public schools growing up and I have to say that the private school I attended was waaaaaay worse academically than any of the public schools I went to. Actually to be quite frank I HATED my three years of elementary private school. Far too much time was spent on religious studies (Catholicism) and going to Mass three times a week. My 3rd grade math teacher was SO horrible that I had a very difficult time transitioning into public school in 4th grade and keeping up with math that year and ever after. I think that my experience was entirely personal and circumstantial, though, because I know darn well there are plenty of either type of schools out there who are great academically, you just have to find the right one to suit your child''s needs if possible.

MC, is it at all possible your older son could skip 1st and go into 2nd grade? I don''t know if they even do that anymore, but it sounds like he''s well advanced beyond the current 1st grade cirriculum and needs much more of a challenge (I know, totally obvious statement).
 

MichelleCarmen

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Date: 10/1/2007 11:56:13 PM
Author: monarch64

MC, is it at all possible your older son could skip 1st and go into 2nd grade? I don't know if they even do that anymore, but it sounds like he's well advanced beyond the current 1st grade cirriculum and needs much more of a challenge (I know, totally obvious statement).
Oh, thanks for saying this. I'm not sure if he's ready for 2nd, he just seems to catch onto things so quickly, that I fear he is going to be one of those children who is bored during class.

Anyhow, it seems private isn't too popular here among PSers! I looked into the Christian School in more depth and determined it too "Christ Oriented" for my son. I guess I'll read up some more on local schools, but we cannot change his public school without applying for a variance, and I am sure that if we went outside of district, it would be impossible for both my kids to be accepted. We'd also have a substantial commute.

Also, the deal is, the school my son goes to is considered one of the best. It has extremely high test scores for the Washington Assessment of Student Learning A.K.A. WASL (which is controversial as a testing method, but gives me some gauge of where the school is at compared to other public schools) and we're in a high-tax area, so there is no way to go "up" from where we're currently at. I'm just wondering if I'm expecting too much from elementary school since most of the parents (who are well-off) - I would think - would be overly demanding? (I wonder how bad the other schools are?)

The best it seems would be to supplement (as many of you have suggested) with additional material at home for the time being, till we figure out what to do.

Thanks so much for all your imput and for listening to me ramble here
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diamondfan

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A private religious school might be different, but I would ask for the curriculum. It is usually state mandated, though, so while there might be some leeway, it is hard to tell. Would they make you have academic testing on your sons? You want them challenged but not frustrated. I will tell you that I live in the Main Line and the public schools here are top notch. However, someone I know just put their son in my kid's school. He is a gifted athlete and was a straight A honor class student at one of the two public high schools here, but our school made him come in and repeat tenth grade! They told his parents the work in 11th would be too tough. So, it is hard to know. As a private Quaker school, my kid's school has teachers who are not certified, which blows my mind. A public school must hire certified instructors but apparently private schools don't. I also know if your school takes public funding they must adhere to certain state mandates. It is so tough to know how your child will fare over the years. Class size, course materials are of course important, but so too are things like social mix and how each child matures and grows. I might not be toooo concerned about pre school and first grade, but I would want to see what is coming each year from now on. He is little, but good learning habits start young. I do NOT mean to pile on needless busy work on young children, having tons of homework at young ages does not mean a smarter child, but I taking about overall habits one takes to each grade as work gets harder. Also, the religion is only a factor if it bothers you. I could not put my kids in a Catholic school as we are Jewish (but I know people here who do) but our school is very low key in the Quakerism, so I am fine with it. I could not handle my kids going to mandatory church services bi weekly though. And, as was pointed out, content and good teachers are vital, but so is good parental involvement, which you seem to have down pretty well! You also have to factor in social stuff as well as academic, so the kid feels happy and successful. These are tough choices, but to me, the public school is always there for you, so you can make visits to the private schools around, try to talk to as many people as you can (though you will get many opinions so take things with a grain of salt). While it is not ideal to move kids a lot, no decision is permanent, so that should take some weight off of your shoulders. Also, the fee they are charging is not bad, our school (just tuition) starts at $15,000 for pre k and goes up to over $22,000 for high school, (with increases seemingly each year!!!) so honestly, your school fee, while not immaterial, isn't too bad! Again, though, it is not about the money but what is best for your children, which I know you have stated.
 

strmrdr

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I wouldn''t send my dog to the public schools in my area much less a kid.
I feel sorry for anyone that goes too them.
It is that bad.
They were good schools when I was growing up but they are total crap now.
 

eks6426

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I have a son in 5th grade at a private Catholic school and my stepson is a senior at a public high school. I have a foot in both worlds. I think so much depends on the public & private school choices. I am not Catholic(my son's biological father was) and I definitely struggle with the relgious issues of my 5th graders school. I nearly fainted when my son asked if he could be an alter server this year. I definitely have issues with the idea that all of my son's classmates are white, upper middle class kids. Last year at the school Christmas concert I counted the number of non-white kids in the school. Out of 600 kids there were 8 non-white kids. My county is easily 40% non-white so this is not good at all. At the same time, this private school has the much better test scores than the public schools (yes, I know it's all averages and really not a true picture). The private school also handled my son's emotional issues well after his father died. They have been there for him and for me. The biggest area I see lacking in the private school are arts/extras programs. My son is into band and the school options are limited at best. There just aren't the extra opportunities in the private school that there are in the public schools. For that reason, I am considering putting my son in an "academy" public middle school. The academy schools require the kids to pass test & get admission. They weed out the kids who do really poorly or just aren't interested....But I don't love the public high school options.

My step-son a senior about to graduate in spring 08. He has by far less homework than my 5th grader (and has had all the way through HS). But what really scares me is he's been doing some senior writing projects and his writing is just horrible. I understand that kids will get away with the least amount of work possible, but the the teachers accept the papers with major grammatical errors and give them good grades like an A-. The school counselors have been horrible at helping with college info or even just getting my stepson into thinking about the SAT. They don't have time to deal with the college bound kids when over 60% of public school kids who start as freshmen don't graduate. 60% is a very scary number to me.

When I think about the differences between the public & private schools in my area it really comes down to parental involvement. The public school is filled with kids whose parents don't come to anything. The kids are on their own. The private school has parents who are involved in the school and in their kids education. I think it takes an exceptionally focused child and parent team for a kid to do well in the public schools in my area. The kid has to get into a group of friends who are academically minded in public school and not let the 60%+ of kids who just don't care influence their
decisions.

By the way, I am a graduate of the public school system. I went to over 13 different PUBLIC elementary schools and some were better than others. The best school I attended was huge. 7 elementary schools, 2 middle schools and 1 high school all on a "campus". Most people seem to feel that the smaller schools are better, but the huge schools (my elementary school had over 1500+ students) really had so many opportunities.
 

musey

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I don't have kids, but FI and I both went to private school. He went private for ALL school (pre-school through undergraduate). I went private for everything but HS (pre-school through 8th grade, then undergrad), not for academic reasons but because the private school was more flexible in accomodating my jam-packed extra-curricular schedule.

Private school, in my experience, wasn't that much better than going with the gifted or advanced placement programs in public schools (basing this off the kids I've seen coming out of both). Granted, some districts are MUCH better than others. I went to a private university that's relatively highly regarded in academics, and difficult to get into. I knew more kids there from public school than from private, but I never spoke with ANYONE who wasn't involved in an AP program. That seemed to make the difference, more than the public vs. private thing.


Anyway, my brothers both had the problem that you're worried about with the math being far below their level of ability. The problem is that the public schools have to allow for the kids whose parents teach them NOTHING, then just plop them in school. They start from square one. Both my brothers would finish their work in class and then sit there for 30+ minutes with nothing to do (and this is where hyper kids develop behavior problems!).

My mom ended up giving them both a supplementary home-school education, which basically amounted to them self-teaching with books during the down time when they were sitting in class, bored out of their minds. So they would finish their "2 + 6 = ?" math assignment, then go on to the pre-algebra homework my mom had assigned.


That kind of solution is not for everyone, but my mom was a "wish I'd been a teacher" type that thrived on doing science/learning games with us. Maybe your husband could do something like that with the kids in the math arena?
 

Sabine

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As a teacher who works in a school I would NOT want to send any "future" kids to, I would say that if your son is already not being challenged, you should at least look into the private schools.

ALSO, I can''t stress enough how much I think SINGLE SEX education benefits students.
 

Haven

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MC--I''m sorry to hear that your son''s first grade curriculum isn''t challenging him. You are not expecting too much. This is an extremely important time in your child''s education, and you are right to question a curriculum that appears to be too basic.

This is an enormous problem, as research tells us that the most important years in a child''s education are the early years--as in, early childhood and elementary school. Someone mentioned that perhaps you could wait a few years and see what happens, but in my opinion I would say this is a terrible idea--we know that children who fall behind have an exponentially more difficult time catching up as time goes on. Also, if your son is not being challenged, it''s likely that he will withdraw due to boredom and he won''t work up to his potential. When this happens, these children generally fall into the "pack" of average students.

I don''t know where you live, but all public schools are state-funded and state-run, so I would recommend looking up your state''s board of education website and downloading the learning standards, expectations, and goals for first grade. Compare these to your child''s curriculum, and if you see a discrepancy, question the school about it. For example, I live in Chicago so my employer (a public high school) must abide by the Illinois State Board of Education''s (isbe.net) standards.

Now, as for private vs. public school--this is something you should research thoroughly before making the transition. Private schools are not necessarily better schools, and when a private school is also a religious school they often use instructional time (that would otherwise be devoted to secular education in a public school) for religious activities, thus taking away from your child''s educational minutes daily. This isn''t a bad thing, but if you''re not sending him there for the religious education it''s worth noting. $5,000 tuition is very low for a public school, so if you do like the curriculum and you can afford it, it sounds like a good deal. The private schools in our area cost anywhere from $12,000 to $19,000 a year.

You are your own child''s best advocate, and the fact that you are involved means that he is going to get more out of his education than the average child with an absent parent. However, that cannot make up for a weak curriculum.

Also, as for the gifted question--there are assessments that can be done to determine whether or not he is a gifted individual. I''ve taught in a gifted program at Northwestern University for several years now, and gifted children absolutely need additional stimulation outside of their regular classroom. Your son''s school may be obligated to provide gifted services, depending on your state''s regulations, or in the very least they likely have a gifted program or upper level class that he can be placed into. I would have him tested, gifted children who do not receive the proper stimulation early on end up losing their giftedness, literally, and they too become average students with average abilities throughout the years.

Okay, I know I rambled on for a bit there. I''m an educator, I have two advanced degrees in education, and on top of that I''m a Reading Specialist so I''m steeped in all of the latest educational research about curriculum, giftedness, and placement.

Take it one step at a time--call the school, get the information, check out your state website, and compare your son''s public school to another local public school. You''ll find the right place for him, and it is absolutely important that you do it sooner rather than later, but don''t rush! By sooner, I mean before he hits the second grade!

Good luck, MC.
 
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