Your thoughts on changing up family jewels.

[Treenbean]

Hi everyone. I recently bought myself a Chelsea filter to check out some of my gems and jewelry. I have a few rings from my grandma and great grandma. Amongst them is a little ruby (I think) ring. The pictures I took are horrible but it's super pretty in real life. No muddy brown, just bright and pretty. It was my great grandmothers engagement ring. The prongs on the setting look super worn and not very sturdy. The cut however, is awesome (in my opinion). It is round with a high crown and a little culet.
We had a 2+ carat OEC diamond that my mom had re-cut to brilliant back in the 80's and to this day I wish we still had it as an OEC. This is part of the reason I am indecisive. Not that I would ever re-cut the ruby.

1. Any thoughts on whether or not it's real? (Glows very red on the Chelsea).
2. I will never wear this stone in this setting. It is just way too wrong to pop the stone out and put it in another setting?
3. How the heck do I take a good picture of a red or pink stone?

 

[JewelFreak]

Treenbean, I can't tell you if it's real, but I don't see any problem with re-setting it if you want to. Better than having it sit unworn in a drawer & I'm sure your g-grandmother wouldn't object either. Think about your g-granddaughter one day putting one of your stones into a new setting that suited her better -- wouldn't that be ok with you? Royalty do it all the time, puts you in good company! The most important part is that you get to enjoy it.

--- Laurie

 

[GemFever]

I would also say yes to resetting. You could make some nice pictures of it in its current setting for a historical record, but after that--I'd say reset and wear!

- Anya

 

[T L]

If there's no silk, and it's very crystal, and clean, then there's a high chance it could be synthetic, but have it checked out to be sure. Regardless, very pretty family heirloom.

 

[Aoife]

What a pretty stone! I have no idea if it's synthetic or not, but I think resetting it would be a wonderful idea. Recutting is much more invasive/destructive than just giving a lovely stone a new home. Perhaps you could save the old setting, just in case?

 

[pregcurious]

I've been trying to capture the red of my spinel, and have gotten some good advice on equipment in the threads below.
Best cameras to capture color:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/best-camera-to-catch-color.168217/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/best-camera-to-catch-color.168217/[/URL]

Light tent kits:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-tent-kit.169324/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/light-tent-kit.169324/[/URL]

Last week, I changed cameras from a Nikon Coolpix L4 (4 GB point and shoot from ~2005) to a Canon Powershot SD1000, and it is a world of difference. I was reading the stickied thread "How to take good photos of your diamonds" ([URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/[/URL]), and noticed that someone recommended the "digital macro" setting on the Canon Powershot. My pictures are so much better! If you can change your light sources, and try different cameras (borrow a friend's?) you may be able to get better color.

 

[Treenbean]

Jewel Freak: I like how you think! It really put things into perspective.

GemFever: Good idea about the photo documentation. Now if I could only take a decent photo.

TL: I have to look again but if I reset it I will get it analyzed. I know she wore it a lot and it doesn't seem abraded and chipped. She was born around 1905 what type of synthetics were common then?

Aoife: Thanks! Yeah no recutting on this stone, it's too small. I think I will definitely keep the wedding band. But I might recycle the e ring setting. Bad idea?

Preg: thanks for the links. I am going to buy one of the pop up light tents. I have a really nice Leica camera, I think I have to play with the settings though.

Do you think it's a bad idea to recycle the e ring setting?

 

[Pandora II]

Please be careful with Chelsea filters - they are only really useful for quick initial sorting of parcels of stones before further testing.

Useful info here: http://gemologyonline.com/chelsea_filter.html

Synthetic rubies were invented in around 1880 and were very common at the turn of the century. If it's a great colour, clean and good crystal then I would suspect synthetic until proven otherwise. They were not cheap at the time and are often found set in high karat gold and platinum.

 

[JewelFreak]

Synthetic rubies were invented in around 1880 and were very common at the turn of the century. If it's a great colour, clean and good crystal then I would suspect synthetic until proven otherwise. They were not cheap at the time and are often found set in high karat gold and platinum.

Pandora, you know SO many useful rare facts. I don't know how some of you smart PSers learn all you do in a whole lifetime, let alone the portion of it you've lived so far.

 

[chrono]

It could be a synthetic or it could be real; one cannot tell from pictures alone but it sure does look very clean and in newish condition. I don't think it is a terrible idea to reset the stone; it's not as if you are going to just chuck the setting away, are you?

 

[Kitten35]

I reset a ring my grandma gave me. I see no issues with it. It updates the ring, but still allows you to wear the stones. Edit: I did save the old setting, but I don't plan on putting anything in it, it's not really my style. What I did with it actually was to set it in a double stone ring, with one stone from my grandma's ring and one stone that was passed to me from my grandad by itself without a setting. It turned out lovely, and now it for me holds one gem from each side of the family.

 

[QueenB29]

Treenbean, I have a tourmaline from my grandmother's ring that has a very similar cut. Not particularly valuable (except for sentiment) or even a very good stone, but very pretty. It was in a very old-fashioned yellow gold setting with seed pearls (two of which were smashed) and I never wore it. Ever. DH and I had it reset for my b-day a couple years ago and now it is one of my FAVORITE rings. I wear it a lot and I always think about my grandmother. I say (even if your ruby is synthetic), if resetting it means you will use and enjoy it, then go for it. It doesn't do anyone any good just sitting in a drawer.

I will add, though, that I made sure my dad didn't have a problem with my changing the setting before I did anything though. He didn't

 

[T L]

Jewel Freak: I like how you think! It really put things into perspective.

GemFever: Good idea about the photo documentation. Now if I could only take a decent photo.

TL: I have to look again but if I reset it I will get it analyzed. I know she wore it a lot and it doesn't seem abraded and chipped. She was born around 1905 what type of synthetics were common then?

Aoife: Thanks! Yeah no recutting on this stone, it's too small. I think I will definitely keep the wedding band. But I might recycle the e ring setting. Bad idea?

Preg: thanks for the links. I am going to buy one of the pop up light tents. I have a really nice Leica camera, I think I have to play with the settings though.

Do you think it's a bad idea to recycle the e ring setting?

They've been making synthetic corundum for over 100 years, so yes, it is possible. However, if it's natural, it's probably worth a lot as they were not readily heated back then. Get it checked out.

From wiki
"In 1837, Gaudin made the first synthetic rubies by fusing alumina at a high temperature with a small amount of chromium as a pigment. In 1847, Ebelmen made white sapphires by fusing alumina in boric acid. In 1877 Frenic and Freil made crystal corundum from which small stones could be cut. Frimy and Auguste Verneuil manufactured artificial ruby by fusing BaF2 and Al2O3 with a little chromium at temperatures above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F). In 1903, Verneuil announced he could produce synthetic rubies on a commercial scale using this flame fusion process."

 

[Pandora II]

They've been heating corundum since Roman times, the difference has been that they can now heat to higher temperatures, hold temps at a set level for a long period of time and control the cooling procedure better and all this means that they get better and more consistent results, but I wouldn't necessarily expect an unheated stone.

 

[cellentani]

treenbean, you always take good photos, and these are lovely! I personally wouldn't have any issues in resetting a family stone unless I was getting a lot of flak from family members, and even then, I'm not sure that would stop me, lol. Actually, I think a reset is a wonderful way to honor your grandmother. When you say 'salvage the setting' do you mean re-use the ring for another stone, or sell the setting for scrap? If you intend to re-use the setting, make sure you let the bench know so he'll salvage the prongs as much as possible. Hope you keep us posted on what you decide.

 

[T L]

They've been heating corundum since Roman times, the difference has been that they can now heat to higher temperatures, hold temps at a set level for a long period of time and control the cooling procedure better and all this means that they get better and more consistent results, but I wouldn't necessarily expect an unheated stone.

No of course not, one should not expect an unheated stone, although I do believe heating is done more abundantly these days than in the past when the gem qualities were better and didn't require it as much. Most of the mines are so depleted of fine quality that treatment is almost second nature these days.

 

[Treenbean]

QueenB: Hi I would love to see your ring. I think even if it is synthetic I will have it reset. She was a lovely woman.

Kitten35: I am feeling more "Okay" with doing this. I was thinking about recycling the 18k setting for use in the new ring but keeping the wedding band as it has their names and date (heavily worn, but I know it's them).

Chrono: No I won't just chuck the setting hehe! See above for using the setting idea. Sounds like the stone will be taking a trip to NYC.

Pandora: Thanks for the info! You're a great resource. I'm not in the trade but I have a few emeralds and possible rubies so I bought the Chelsea filter to have fun and try to learn more. I won't be sorting parcels with it, just another tool in my arsenal.

Cellantani: Thanks for the complement. I just cannot capture the color correctly. Good suggestion about the bench preson too. I just bought two little .29pts AVC's and am dying to see what they will be like with this stone (they arrive Saturday).

TL: Even if it's synthetic I really like it. But if it's natural I will be very happy. If it's unheated I would be surprised. My great grandfather was a butcher and a school teacher (one room), so I don't think money was very abundant. I wonder what he paid for it back in the day.

 

[T L]

TL: Even if it's synthetic I really like it. But if it's natural I will be very happy. If it's unheated I would be surprised. My great grandfather was a butcher and a school teacher (one room), so I don't think money was very abundant. I wonder what he paid for it back in the day.

Of course, it's still a family heirloom and you should love it no matter what. I'm just saying you should get it checked out because if it's natural, and a ruby, and a clean one at that with very good saturation, then it's worth a bit, and you may want to have it insured and/or get a very sturdy and secure setting for it. Fine rubies are very rare in this day and age, and often are found in antique jewelry. It might even be Burmese, which would add to the value.

You might be interested in this video on some antique ruby jewelry from the deco period. She had no idea what it was worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps8YOA7ad1c

 

[LD]

Treen - look at it this way .............

You won't wear it in the setting it's in at the minute.
You love the stone (irrespective of what it is).
If you bought your Grandmother's house and the decoration was worn, wouldn't you do it up?

It's still your Grandmother's stone you'd just be giving it a face lift.

 

[Treenbean]

TL: I will have it checked but I don't have that kind of luck. I love antiques roadshow! Kevin and Berj Zavian yeah!

LD: You are right I am now feeling much better about doing this.

 

[Treenbean]

I took more pics and looked at the stone again through a loupe. It is fairly clear. The facets have abrasions and a couple of flea bites on one area of the girdle. It's probably synthetic.

Do synthetics of this period hold up this well?
Do synthetics of this period glow in a chelsea filter?

Anyway more pictures. I think it looks like a Mahenge in some of these pics. It is slightly more pink in the photos than in real life but I tried some different setting and more sunshine.

 

[Aoife]

Aoife: Thanks! Yeah no recutting on this stone, it's too small. I think I will definitely keep the wedding band. But I might recycle the e ring setting. Bad idea?



Do you think it's a bad idea to recycle the e ring setting?

Are you thinking in terms of selling it for melt? Is it soldered to the wedding ring?

 

[Treenbean]

It is soldered.

I was thinking of using the gold from the old setting in the new setting.

 

[Aoife]

I think that's a lovely idea, if you know of someone who will reuse the gold. I know that not all vendors are willing or able to do that.

 

[pregcurious]

I just went through the process of trying to find someone who would do this. Walker Metalsmiths will reuse your gold, and even let you watch. I haven't used them myself:

http://www.celtarts.com/LegacyGold.html

 

[Pandora II]

A synthetic is identical to the natural in terms of physical, chemical and optical properties so it will perform as well as an out-of-the-ground ruby in terms of durability, hardness etc.

Under a Chelsea, a synthetic ruby will glow red - generally VERY red. You'll find it will also glow under UV as well.

Not saying that yours is a synthetic, but it is likely to be given the colour, the clarity, the age and that your grandparents weren't wealthy.

I have a number of synthetic rubies that I salvaged from antique jewellery - I gave my father the mounts to reset and kept the stones for my collection. They are really quite beautiful - and were much prized at the time. There was no shame in saying that your rock as synthetic - a lot of very fine jewellery was made using them.

(Treenbean, I'm a qualified gemmologist (FGA) and although I knew some already, a lot of this stuff was in our course notes - study of treatments and synthetics is a fairly big part)

 

[chrono]

From the information you just shared, it point more towards being a synthetic - the time period, the size & colour of ruby, the financial situation of your grandparents then, plus the extreme fluorescence and chromium content of the stone. A synthetic ruby will fluorescence madly and glow a very strong red under the Chelsea filter.

That said, because of the sentimentality of the stone, although synthetic, it was definitely well loved and should continue to be loved. I see nothing wrong in resetting it to be worn and remembered. The Art Deco period sports a lot of synthetics as well, and it was widely acceptable at that time.

 

[QueenB29]

Treebean, here's the best I could do with my iPhone camera at work. The tourmaline isn't nearly that dark IRL, although I think the bezel does make it appear slightly darker than it would otherwise. (The stone is actually chipped and we had to bezel it to protect it from further damage.) It's far more of a yummy raspberry color, similar to a rhodolite, actually. I wear a 5.5 and the setting is from Jared's. I it. I don't have a picture with the original setting. I hope this helps!