Yellow Sapphire's - now I'm even more confused!

[_BUQARI_]

I'm back guys!
Forgot my old username and password - so I'm using a new account!

I were asking for some information about Yellow Sapphire's a while ago.
I got some very decent answers and I really appreciate it!

Now... I got new information about my Yellow Sapphire and want as much information as possible.
And I would like to know the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Yellow Sapphire (yes, that's right).

First I was thinking the Sapphire was a synthetic, people here at PS did as well.
But I got a Certificate that not only I - but more people did misunderstand - but I called the Lab and got them to explain it to me.
I also visited a Jewelry Store and asked them about testing it for me and was re:directed to a "Lab" that would test it for treatments etc.

Whatsoever, they told me that it wasn't a "Regular" Yellow Sapphire I got - it's a Pushparaga Sapphire (Mekong Whiskey)!
I kind of scratched my head, never heard about the term ever before.
It has NOT been heat-treated or anything - 100% untreated - and it got a clarity of IF/FL (very unusual - hardly ever seen).
It's PURE Yellow with only 2 small Orange "inclusions" - very very rare.
I will also get a Report for it by GIA (Analytical Report) in the end of January!

Now... I've been trying to find any decent information.
But the only thing I can manage to find is that a fine Pushparaga Sapphire has the same value as a fine Burmese (Burma) Ruby.
I did find some Pushparaga's with VS1 clarity - but how much more is a IF/FL worth - any ideas??

Some people have told me that Yellow Sapphire's is the cheap kind of Sapphire's.
So I asked them in the store about this and they told me that;
Yes, regular yellow sapphire's are very cheap - BUT Pushparaga's are not and is hardly ever seen in the gemstone market at all!

The color at the pictures is 100% accurate - the Sapphire is that Yellow in real life as well.
Does anyone got any good information about this kind of Sapphire's at all? - all information is appreciated.
If so, please let me know - thank you!

 

[Treenbean]

This is a very cool thread and I hope Ed Bristol swoops in and sheds some light on the subject, as I know nothing about it. I have to say it's one of the most saturated yellow sapphires I have seen. And I really like it.

 

[_BUQARI_]

This is a very cool thread and I hope Ed Bristol swoops in and sheds some light on the subject, as I know nothing about it. I have to say it's one of the most saturated yellow sapphires I have seen. And I really like it.

Thank you!
Would've been easier if it was possible to message people here.
But I'm just hoping someone is able to answer me about the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparaga.

Yes, I've never seen any Sapphire like this myself (except my own of course).
I've been looking for a matching one for earrings, but without success.

It was popping up at an auction and I did see the people was going crazy about it - so I just needed to have it!
And the color is amazing as well - and I suppose Yellow would fit both Men and Women.

 

[Edward Bristol]

It has zero inclusions and no growthlines, so Emil can't tell it is synthtic or heated, or unheated.

This happens sometimes but is very rare in natural gem, and totally common in a synthetic.

Baseline, 98% it is a sythn.

 

[_BUQARI_]

It has zero inclusions and no growthlines, so Emil can't tell it is synthtic or heated, or unheated.

This happens sometimes but is very rare in natural gem, and totally common in a synthetic.

Baseline, 98% it is a sythn.

Thanks for your reply.

It's not only tested by Emil Lab, as I wroted I also got it tested by another Lab in my country.
They said it was "Natural" and had no treatments, but they didn't tell me which kind of tests they used.

When I called Emil they told me it was a Natural Sapphire - not synthetic.
In the front of the Certificate it's stated "Natural Sapphire" as well, something I didn't see at first.

I will wait and see what GIA tells me, I've ordered a GIA Analytical Report for it.
But because of so much traffic at GIA Carlsbad, it takes 5-9 weeks to get anything certified at this point.
GIA explained they didn't got enough people to work for them - so everything is running pretty slow to say atleast.

 

[Barrett]

I tend to toss my chips in where Edward does..seems to work most of the time
How about you MAKE SURE AND COME BACK AND LET US KNOW WHAT GIA SAID.

 

[_BUQARI_]

I tend to toss my chips in where Edward does..seems to work most of the time
How about you MAKE SURE AND COME BACK AND LET US KNOW WHAT GIA SAID.

Thanks for your reply!
What's his username here, do you know?

Yes, I will.
I'll just update this topic when the Sapphire is back with its GIA Analytical Report.

 

[T L]

Does EMIL provide memos with the vendor photo attached? It looks like a vendor photo (photoshopped and in tweezers) on the EMIL lab memo. ??????

I would double check the authenticity of that memo.

 

[_BUQARI_]

Does EMIL provide memos with the vendor photo attached? It looks like a vendor photo (photoshopped and in tweezers) on the EMIL lab memo. ??????

I would double check the authenticity of that memo.

I dont think the photo is photoshopped - because the Sapphire looks 100% same in real life, but I cant say for sure tho'.
I called the Lab and they told me about the Sapphire, so I suppose it's real.
It has all the stamps etc that's provided by Emil Lab.

 

[VapidLapid]

My interpretation of the emil lab report is that they could not find any indicators one way or the other to allow them to conclude the stone is either natural or synthetic. I would expect a more extensively outfitted lab will find it to be synth.

 

[_BUQARI_]

My interpretation of the emil lab report is that they could not find any indicators one way or the other to allow them to conclude the stone is either natural or synthetic. I would expect a more extensively outfitted lab will find it to be synth.

Yes, I know many people here was thinking so.
But I called them and as they told me it was Natural - also stated at the front of the certificate.
Otherwise it would be stated "Synthetic".

The Lab in my country (not Emil) also told me it was real, very unusual Sapphire - but not treated or anything.
I dont know myself of course, I dont got the right equipment to perform any tests.

But I will post the GIA Analytical Report as fast as I get it.

 

[LD]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

 

[T L]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

Yes, that's my concern too.

 

[PrecisionGem]

How much you paid for the stone could be a big clue as to if it synthetic or real. Was it an eBay auction? What was the starting listing?

 

[_BUQARI_]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

I doubt it's fake! I really do.
Emil confirmed it was real when I called them - because otherwise they wouldn't be able to answer my questions.

I bought it at an auction for plenty of $$$$$$, it was not cheap, I paid the same for the Sapphire as I do for 4 months rent (house).
And the sales-man earn over $10,000,000.00 a year, I checked the company personally in a system.
That kind of information is registered and can be seen by anyone.

So.... I dont think they need to trick anyone or give fake certificates - also, they did only got 2 registered complaints.
2 complaints out of over 60,000 transactions.

My question here isn't if it's fake or not - as 2 labs already confirmed it to be Natural.
I'm still waiting for the GIA Analytical Report.
My question in this Topic is; what's the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparanga Sapphire????

 

[Barrett]

How did the lab use and get the vendor photo?
The photo you posted is the vendor photo and the lab uses the exact same photo in their report? How is this possible?
You bought it off ebay?
Don't trust those labs...I consider them "fly by night" labs..trust AGL or GIA
The vendor photo you posted is the exact same photo in the lab report just cropped and flipped upside down...
something is fishy here and I don't live anywhere near the ocean

 

[_BUQARI_]

How did the lab use and get the vendor photo?
The photo you posted is the vendor photo and the lab uses the exact same photo in their report? How is this possible?
You bought it off ebay?
Don't trust those labs...I consider them "fly by night" labs..trust AGL or GIA
The vendor photo you posted is the exact same photo in the lab report just cropped and flipped upside down...
something is fishy here and I don't live anywhere near the ocean

No, I do NOT buy items from eBay - I do only sell at eBay.
I got no clue, I've seen this quite often when it comes to Emil Lab photos - the sellers got the pictures as well.
But it might be that Emil Lab sends the picture manually (electronically) to the seller maybe???

But as I said earlier, I've shipped it to GIA to get an Analytical Report - but this take 5-9 weeks at GIA Carlsbad.
I prefer to use this GIA Lab as I love their Customer Service there, but Carlsbad hasn't enough people to work quickly.
And yes, personally I do only trust GIA & AGL - but the Emil was included with the Sapphire.

Whatsoever, I'll post the copy of the Original GIA Report as fast as I get it back!

If you see the picture attached - that is a 100% original certificate (from their website) and as you can see the stamps etc is 100% matching mine. So I personally dont think the certificate is a fake. But the tweezers in the picture is a little weird.........

But if it's fake, the seller is stupid - doing things like that with intention of tricking people means 3-5 years in jail.

 

[T L]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

I doubt it's fake! I really do.
Emil confirmed it was real when I called them - because otherwise they wouldn't be able to answer my questions.

I bought it at an auction for plenty of $$$$$$, it was not cheap, I paid the same for the Sapphire as I do for 4 months rent (house).
And the sales-man earn over $10,000,000.00 a year, I checked the company personally in a system.
That kind of information is registered and can be seen by anyone.

So.... I dont think they need to trick anyone or give fake certificates - also, they did only got 2 registered complaints.
2 complaints out of over 60,000 transactions.

My question here isn't if it's fake or not - as 2 labs already confirmed it to be Natural.
I'm still waiting for the GIA Analytical Report.
My question in this Topic is; what's the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparanga Sapphire????

The thing is that it could be an authentic lab memo, but it could have been replicated to go with a sapphire cut to the specifications of that memo. That happens too, especially if its synthetic. I hope it's a natural stone though, and it could still be, but it just seems odd that the vendor photo with tweezers are on that memo. Good luck on the outcome with GIA.

On a side note, I've heard of EMIL before, and I heard they're trustworthy, but for corundum, I would only go with the major labs like GIA, AGL, GRS, SSEF, Gueblin.

 

[_BUQARI_]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

I doubt it's fake! I really do.
Emil confirmed it was real when I called them - because otherwise they wouldn't be able to answer my questions.

I bought it at an auction for plenty of $$$$$$, it was not cheap, I paid the same for the Sapphire as I do for 4 months rent (house).
And the sales-man earn over $10,000,000.00 a year, I checked the company personally in a system.
That kind of information is registered and can be seen by anyone.

So.... I dont think they need to trick anyone or give fake certificates - also, they did only got 2 registered complaints.
2 complaints out of over 60,000 transactions.

My question here isn't if it's fake or not - as 2 labs already confirmed it to be Natural.
I'm still waiting for the GIA Analytical Report.
My question in this Topic is; what's the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparanga Sapphire????

The thing is that it could be an authentic lab memo, but it could have been replicated to go with a sapphire cut to the specifications of that memo. That happens too, especially if its synthetic. I hope it's a natural stone though, and it could still be, but it just seems odd that the vendor photo with tweezers are on that memo. Good luck on the outcome with GIA.

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, you might be totally right.
I'm not going to disagree or anything before I see the GIA Report.

I do not want to tell people where I buy my products, I pay a lot of course - but maybe 10% of it's total value only.
So if I name the store it would raise the prices for me as well because of more buyers.
I've purchased very fine Unheated Ruby's, Sapphire's, Diamonds, Demantoid's etc - and all was as described.
I do a lot of businesses with the company so I do really trust them - I do got a Jewelry Shop myself, so I use them as a Vendor.

The only problem this time is that I've never ever seen a Sapphire like this one before.
But at the auction people was going crazy about it. So I supposed I just needed to have it.
I got no clue about its original value or anything else - only thing I know is which mine it has been mined from.
I were talking with another Lab (as we do not set any Retail Value ourself) and they called it a "Natural Pushparaga Sapphire" with "Mekong Whiskey" color - and I cant find any good information about it, so that's why I opened this Topic.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

I doubt it's fake! I really do.
Emil confirmed it was real when I called them - because otherwise they wouldn't be able to answer my questions.

I bought it at an auction for plenty of $$$$$$, it was not cheap, I paid the same for the Sapphire as I do for 4 months rent (house).
And the sales-man earn over $10,000,000.00 a year, I checked the company personally in a system.
That kind of information is registered and can be seen by anyone.

So.... I dont think they need to trick anyone or give fake certificates - also, they did only got 2 registered complaints.
2 complaints out of over 60,000 transactions.

My question here isn't if it's fake or not - as 2 labs already confirmed it to be Natural.
I'm still waiting for the GIA Analytical Report.
My question in this Topic is; what's the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparanga Sapphire????

Where is this place that sales men earn over $10,000,000 a year???? I need to get a job there!

 

[_BUQARI_]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

The photo you have posted (presumably from the vendor) is exactly the same photo.

That gives me grave cause for concern because I believe it would be highly unusual that a lab would use a vendor's photo. The underlying lab report may well be genuine for a sapphire but that doesn't mean that it matches the photo or your stone.

I doubt it's fake! I really do.
Emil confirmed it was real when I called them - because otherwise they wouldn't be able to answer my questions.

I bought it at an auction for plenty of $$$$$$, it was not cheap, I paid the same for the Sapphire as I do for 4 months rent (house).
And the sales-man earn over $10,000,000.00 a year, I checked the company personally in a system.
That kind of information is registered and can be seen by anyone.

So.... I dont think they need to trick anyone or give fake certificates - also, they did only got 2 registered complaints.
2 complaints out of over 60,000 transactions.

My question here isn't if it's fake or not - as 2 labs already confirmed it to be Natural.
I'm still waiting for the GIA Analytical Report.
My question in this Topic is; what's the difference between a Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparanga Sapphire????

Where is this place that sales men earn over $10,000,000 a year???? I need to get a job there!

Sorry, not sales man - the owner/company.
They drag in over $10,000,000 a year - they supply jewelry stores worldwide with gemstones (incl. diamonds).
Have you never heard about the City "The city of Precious Gemstones"???
You can find everything you want there at a reasonable price!

 

[PrecisionGem]

Did you do a google search on Pushparaga? Seems it's what yellow sapphires in called in India.
As with most anything, I'd say the stone is worth about what you paid for it. People in the business know what things are worth, and generally sell them for that amount or more.

 

[_BUQARI_]

Did you do a google search on Pushparaga? Seems it's what yellow sapphires in called in India.
As with most anything, I'd say the stone is worth about what you paid for it. People in the business know what things are worth, and generally sell them for that amount or more.

Yes, I did.
I also found that a "Pushaparga Sapphire" (named Pushparaga in India because it's yellow - Pushparaga in the Gemstone industry for it's color, not only yellow, but saturated). And I also found that a Pushparaga Sapphire has the same value as the finest (cornflower) Unheated Mogok Sapphire's!

 

[Edward Bristol]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

one.

Yes, true. Well watched. Emil doesn´t use tweezers. They have a lightbox.

 

[_BUQARI_]

Something for you to consider:-

As TL has said, the photo on the EMIL report shows tweezers - I'm not sure how normal that is but I havent seen one.

one.

Yes, true. Well watched. Emil doesn´t use tweezers. They have a lightbox.

Very very interesting!
Now I'm really looking forward to get the GIA Report.

Can you tell me anything about the difference between a regular Yellow Sapphire and a Pushparaga Sapphire please??

 

[Edward Bristol]

On second thought: if the vendor photo is actually the one on the Emil report (it seems so) then we don't need to see the GIA report and someone should close the thread.

 

[Pandora II]

'Pushparaga' comes from the Singhalese 'pushpa' - flower and 'raga' - colour, also translated as 'flower pollen colour'.

In the same way there is 'padmaraga' from 'padma' - lotus flower and 'raga' colour. This is the pinky, orangy colour of sapphire that is very rare and expensive and that the west calls 'padparadascha' due to an early 20th Century German mis-translation. Talk to any Sri Lankan miner about 'padparadascha' and they will look at you blankly, mention padmaraga and you get a big grin!

If by the City of Gems, you mean 'Ratnapura' - then yes, I know it very well, and you can get many things there - but the people there have been trading gems for thousands of years, they know EXACTLY what they are selling and you will pay an appropriate price for them.

Yellow sapphires are not that sought after in the West - it's actually quite hard to get a nice one in the UK - mainly because they don't look that great against our skin-tones. They are much more appreciated in the East.

Even so, a fine yellow sapphire is not going to approach the price of that of a fine blue sapphire - it's all a case of market demand. Yellow sapphires are relatively in-expensive compared with prices for similar quality in pink or blue. Padmaraga sapphires on the other hand are extremely valuable - are you sure that you are not mixing the two up?

I know one website says that they can be of a similar price as a fine Mogok sapphire - I would fundamentally disagree with this. If you have a look around online you should be able to see the kind of prices that other dealers are selling them for.

If your stone is truly an unheated natural sapphire of that saturation of colour then you will have a nice gemstone.

 

[_BUQARI_]

'Pushparaga' comes from the Singhalese 'pushpa' - flower and 'raga' - colour, also translated as 'flower pollen colour'.

In the same way there is 'padmaraga' from 'padma' - lotus flower and 'raga' colour. This is the pinky, orangy colour of sapphire that is very rare and expensive and that the west calls 'padparadascha' due to an early 20th Century German mis-translation. Talk to any Sri Lankan miner about 'padparadascha' and they will look at you blankly, mention padmaraga and you get a big grin!

If by the City of Gems, you mean 'Ratnapura' - then yes, I know it very well, and you can get many things there - but the people there have been trading gems for thousands of years, they know EXACTLY what they are selling and you will pay an appropriate price for them.

Yellow sapphires are not that sought after in the West - it's actually quite hard to get a nice one in the UK - mainly because they don't look that great against our skin-tones. They are much more appreciated in the East.

Even so, a fine yellow sapphire is not going to approach the price of that of a fine blue sapphire - it's all a case of market demand. Yellow sapphires are relatively in-expensive compared with prices for similar quality in pink or blue. Padmaraga sapphires on the other hand are extremely valuable - are you sure that you are not mixing the two up?

I know one website says that they can be of a similar price as a fine Mogok sapphire - I would fundamentally disagree with this. If you have a look around online you should be able to see the kind of prices that other dealers are selling them for.

If your stone is truly an unheated natural sapphire of that saturation of colour then you will have a nice gemstone.

Thank you so much Pandora, your answer are always helpful!

I know about Ratnapura, but no, it's not the city I meant.
There's 2 citys called almos the same - "City of Gems" Ratnapura and "City of Precious Gemstones" Chantaburi.

Yes, I've been looking for Yellow Sapphire's (and if the Emil certificate is authentic) I cant find anyone matching mine.
The problem is that I cant find any with the same saturation, clarity and still is Unheated.
So I cant actually manage to compare any other Sapphire 100%.
I was reading they could cost the same as a Blue Mogok Sapphire (probably very similar to Kashmir or Cornflower).
I got no clue if this is right, it might be right if the saturation in the yellow is good enough maybe?
I've only seen light Yellow Sapphire's before, deep Orange and Greenish-Yellow - so I dont know myself.

No, I'm not confusing Pushparaga with Padparadscha.
I know there's a big difference - and I personally think that a Padparadscha also would reach much higher prices than a Blue Mogok Sapphire.
So I wouldn't compare a Padparadscha Sapphire to either Yellow or Blue - as I know it's more like Orangish-Pink.

And by the way - the Auction House in Sweden, Bukowski's that you did mention for me.
I sent them a copy of the GIA Reports, some information and pictures - but I got zero response.
They didn't even explain why I didn't got an answer.

 

[Pandora II]

Ah, Chanthaburi... City of the Precious Gems, the synthetics, the Be treated etc.

Caveat Emptor

 

[_BUQARI_]

Ah, Chanthaburi... City of the Precious Gems, the synthetics, the Be treated etc.

Caveat Emptor

Of course there's a lot synthetics in Thailand in general, but if you visit Bangkaja - you can find very fine untreated gems as well.
You have to keep in mind that this city "import" gemstones from Mogok, Tanzania and Sri Lanka.
Chantaburi is very close to the borderline of Cambodia - well, if you go to Ma Chaen (borderline to Burma) you can find Unheated Ruby's from Burma as well to a very very low price.
This has been known for centuries and this is also one of the reasons why the Burma Ruby's are so "scarce" these days, because Burma is trying to stop the export/import to Thailand.

It's like USA vs. Mexico ......