would you buy at this price? Was it a good deal?

[bazargan]

Hei guys,
My first gem dealing and I am super excited! Did I make a good deal? Specially those two tsavorite garnets since I am able to order more from the guy. Im sure your opinions will improve my skills in the next gem show. So please dont hesitate to write anything comes in your mind



Ethiopian opals in the top left - about 4 grams 7$
Shattered Ethiopian opal in the bottom left , was about 3 grams- 20$ ( shattered after sinking it in water and taking it out immediately)
Four emeralds, two square, two oval- each about 0.8 ct. - each 25$
Square 4.09 ct. garnet- 38$
Two orange topaz , each about 2 ct. - each 5$
Two tsavorite, 3mm in 4mm about 0.195 ct. - each 5S
About 1.5 ct. lot marquise and square cut emerald - 40 $
Oval garnet, 1.5 ct.- 4 $


These are the same tsavorites. Do you guys think I can make an investment buying more of these?
Appreciate any comment!

 

[chrono]

I can't say whether it is a good deal or not but I think you paid a fair price considering the colour and sizes.
Emeralds - probably highly treated
Garnet - rather dark in tone

Please define what you mean by "make an investment buying more of these". I don't think you'll make any money (profit) reselling these so my advise is to only buy what you like and will enjoy looking at for many years to come.

 

[Starzin]

These are the same tsavorites. Do you guys think I can make an investment buying more of these?

No. These are barely above melee size and are not investment material, sorry.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

The color is nice on the tsavorites. They are small. What do you plan to do with all these small stones? Don't buy more until you assess what you are going to do with them. The stones you called orange topaz are probably coated stones. You are on your way to having a bunch of stones that you won't know what to do with. In the end it will be a waste of money, not a deal.

I love tsavorite garnets. Please look for a larger one at a good price.



Annette

 

[bazargan]

Thank you very much smitcompton, Starzin and Chrono for your comments. I will consider them all in my next buy.
I have emeralds checked by a gemologist and they turned out to be untreated. The reason why the guy sold them at this price was because he had them in stock and wanted to get rid of them. Since he found out Im a newbie, he tried to help me somehow. ( I bought all emeralds, oval garnet, tsavorite and orange topaz from him.)
I took them all to get checked by a gemologist in the same trade fare and all turned out to be real and untreated.
What about Ethiopian opals? I mean by buying 1 kg of good quality ( giving me on average 5 carat gems) and having them cut, I think I might be left with not more than 300 g cut gems. Lets say I buy them at 3000$ per kg and if cutting process costs me about 1000$ since I have the guy who is ready to cut them at this price. Do you guys think I will be able to make money selling cut ones? does it worth trying?

 

[chrono]

Do you know what to look for in rough material (good colour, facetable quality, shape, clarity, etc)? If not, forget about it. I'm writing this to save you time, money and heartache.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Before trying to make this a business, I would recommend you educate yourself. Remember, there is no easy money.

Can you identify good opal rough? Nice colour play, well shaped nodules, no large flaws, stable, etc? Hint - these are rarely sold by the kilo. If your rough is not good, the end result will be worthless. Can you buy good rough at wholesale prices or are you getting the leftovers after all the serious buyers have gone over it? You are planning on paying $0.60/carat. That is not the price of good opal rough.

Who will you sell them to and through what channels? Are you ready to wait for buyers? Are you planning on selling wholesale lots or individual stones to end buyers?

I am not saying this is impossible. I know several people who started out from nothing and are on their way to becoming gem dealers. I also know many more who lost a lot of money in this. The difference? The guys who are doing well educated themselves. They learned all they could from books, experts and dealers. They looked at a lot of stones and got a lot of hands on experience, both on recognizing good stones and to understand pricing and the market. They learned how to use gemological tools to ID stones. None of them started out with rough, since that requires even more expertise.

If it were easy money, a lot more people would be doing it. Do you love stones enough to put in the effort?

 

[liao]

it going to be a gamble if you have no/little knowledge and experience to back you up. it took me 10+ years of learning before I dare to buy any rough amethyst, and it took me 30+ years of learning before I started buying rough jadeite (many people said buying rough jade is a gamble. actually it is not if you know that stuff really well)

 

[bazargan]

Yes I agree with all of you. I always need to educate myself more. Well, I am 25 and have been working in a jewellery producing company for 3 years. I learnt a lot of tips from the gemologist in that company. After starting to know about gems I really love them. I dont get tired looking at them all day long. since I always seek perfection, I made a long plan for my self to get into this business, buy a professional faceting machine and start learning cutting gems into perfection. Then selling will be piece of cake when good quality and perfect cut is ensured as experts say. Two weeks ago was my first trip to a gem and jewellery trade show ( The Munich Show) and bought stones above from there. I was planning to educate my self a bit and travel to Ethiopia to buy cheaper rough(??). As you guys mentioned though it seems to be too early for me to get into rough business.
I also have a question about weakness point of rough opals. I couldnt really find a good source to teach how to identify them. do you guys know a source or a link?

Thank you again for all the honest advices guys!

 

[Lee Little]

Buying rough for profit is challenging because many miners are also cutters and keep the best for their own cutting. They sell the leftovers and the second guy will select all the best then sell the leftovers again. This pattern can repeat several times before you inspect the leftover leftovers.
Dealers of rough calculate the size, shape and carat weight of the finished gem that they believe they could cut from each chunk of decent rough. Never is a chunk not carefully inspected so you will find zero great surprises in any parcel. The price of the rough is often based on how much they believe it is worth once faceted and they consider the cutting cost to be negligible thus profits from buying rough are often upside down, many losses for new buyers of rough. Until you become able to compete in expertise with these rough dealers, hold on to your money, observe, remember and ask questions. All that said, you may be able to make money with precision faceting.
Best regards, Lee

 

[Marlow]

First,

Don't travel to Ethopia to buy gems!!! It is to dangerous!!

For Ethopian Opal you need a very good source - many loose the colorplay after a while. Normally they should wait after "harvest" a few month.

I bought wonderful rough - Uli cut some and after a few WEEKS the colorplay was lost!

Second,

if you want to collect don't buy so many small stone - try to find the best deal for lets say an tsavorite. A fix budget and talk to the vendors and find the best tsavo for your money. Compare and don't buy fast.

You will get a stone you love - many cheap little stones will bore you.

Next show ( or next day) try to find a nice tourmaline ....

 

[arkieb1]

Have you had a go at cutting gemstones before? There are a lot of people who cut gemstones that are really average to bad at it and a small number of people that cut stones really really well. Most people can buy average and poorly cut gemstones cheaply cut in places like India and Asia where wages are super low.

Being able to cut gemstones well is a balance of maths, proportions and a eye for art. My husband (who is ambivalent to gemstones) paid for a career in flying cutting gemstones he was very good at it but did not want to do it. His family own a rock, gemstone, fossil and mineral shop and museum, but he did not want to work in the family business. I've had a couple of goes at cutting and I am completely hopeless at it.

Even having an eye for colour in stones takes years of practise. I used to purchase things for the shop for my mother in law before I had kids. I lost count the amount of times she would ring and lecture me (not in a nice way) that the gemstones or beads or tumble stones I purchased were B grade not A grade or A grade not AAA grade in the early years and even now I do not profess to be an expert compared to a number of people here that have far more knowledge than I do.

Read as much as you can, look at as many gems as you can, go to as many shows as you can. Finding an outstanding cutter and asking them to mentor you if you can might be another suggestion to help you learn.

 

[chrono]

If you are serious about this, I'd hold off the buying for now, go full steam into learning mode and slow down.
1. Learning from a person side by side (mentoring) is the fastest and best method. Learning from books and online has its own pros and cons.
2. Would be a great idea to consider getting your GIA training
3. Join a gem cutting club if there is one local to you. Start by cutting synthetics and/or very cheap material.

 

[bobsiv]

Good advice in here, but I'll add that kilos of '5 carat' rough Welo opals are all over the place because it's impossible to make money off of them. These are the leftovers of the leftovers, they're too small to cut stones that will sell for more than a few pennies even if the color is good. Also, your math is a bit off. You should estimate that only half of the parcel will be cuttable in the first place (due to shape, size, inclusions, stability, etc.) with maybe 30% return on the rest. If you want to end up with marketable stones you should be looking at parcels in the 3-5 gram size. I've found these to be the sweet spot for turning a profit.

I would also not advise travelling to Ethiopia to buy stones. I'm not sure how dangerous it is, but the customs, paperwork, and 'handshakes' will be prohibitive unless you are buying serious bulk. You would also need to pay for a guide to take you to the right dealers, and prices are often higher closer to the source. I suspect a lot of the rough sold in the US is smuggled out, which makes it a little ethically dubious but it's a huge headache you don't have to worry about.

As for grading rough opals, it's not an easy task. I like to think I'm quite good at it, but I've been cutting Welo's for 5 years now. I could show you some tips in person, but it would be a difficult thing to try to teach online.

 

[bazargan]

All I get from your advices is that I need to educate myself at the first place. Well, I thought the Ethiopian opal might be one of the best profitable gems since it has been discovered in 2008. I was also a bit afraid that the prices would go higher if I dont hurry which now I realize it wasnt a very wise thought.
I found distance education program in GIA page. I have put the link below. I thought it might be a good start point to educate myself.?
http://www.gia.edu/gem-education/program-graduate-color-gem
I am really excited that have found my passion! I am sure I will be even more excited when I learn more about these beautiful pieces of mother nature.
do you guys think its a good idea to get a faceting machine and start learning cutting stones while im studying in above program? Im asking too many questions because I see its wonderful finding many professionals in this field who are trying to help you. Appreciate it

 

[minousbijoux]

Bazargans: I wish you much luck and wish that at your age I had had the courage to respect my love of gems and follow it So good on you! Everybody is right in their advice to you and I am happy you are so open to it. We see beginners like you all the time (here and on a website which we are not allowed to link to but if you google "Gemology forums" it will likely be the first one to pop up ) who believe that profits will be easy once they have a minimal skill set. Check out some of the following Facebook groups and I think you'll see that there are a lot of beautiful, impeccably cut gemstones that gemcutters are practically giving away for whatever reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/finegemsandcabs/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/68020651777/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/591997170850826/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/244923205591881/


These are but a few of the many, many, many gem and jewelry groups available on FB. These people are extremely knowledgeable and kind. This, in addition to the website I mentioned above, plus the GIA distance learning will give you the knowledge and contacts you need.

As for buying now, it is almost impossible to resist the urge. There are countless PS members (including myself) who all did exactly what you did - go out and buy stones early on hoping they were good deals. In my particular case, I spent much more than you did at Trade shows. Did I waste the money? Yes, I guess I really did - but on the other hand, it is the way I learn. Everyone is different, and I kind of had to start somewhere, even if I did not get any bargains. That was my start -- just as these stones were yours. Congratulations and welcome to the addiction!

 

[blingbunny10]

do you guys think its a good idea to get a faceting machine and start learning cutting stones while im studying in above program?

Have you ever tried cabbing or faceting? If not, I would really advise against buying a faceting machine at this point. Find someone local to you and take a lesson or two, then go from there. A decent faceting machine will cost thousands of dollars, even if you buy used. That's a lot of money to spend without properly gauging your interest/skill level.

 

[liao]

If you really want to learn about stone treatment's identification, I will recommend AIGS rather than the overrated GIA. I attend both courses years ago, and I found the lessons and 'professor' in AIGS are more practical. If you only started learning about gem hunting, I will recommend Vietnam or Indonesia as your first destination. you can find tons of bargain blue zircon and star sapphire in Vietnam. Indonesia, on the other hand, I am not sure why most gem hunters have not set their foot to Indonesia. Since I do not really need any extra pocket money from gem hunting, I will tell you my little secret. you can easily get a Siberian amethyst from borneo. For more than 20 years, I have been buying top of the line rough amethyst at super low price($50-200 per kilo). Guess what, more than 50% of the finished stone are Siberian amethyst! One caveat tho, you need to build some relationship with the local tribes. Otherwise, the head of the local tribes will not show you their best rough amethyst.

 

[distracts]

If you are serious about this, I'd hold off the buying for now, go full steam into learning mode and slow down.
1. Learning from a person side by side (mentoring) is the fastest and best method. Learning from books and online has its own pros and cons.
2. Would be a great idea to consider getting your GIA training
3. Join a gem cutting club if there is one local to you. Start by cutting synthetics and/or very cheap material.

This, this, this. I'm in a big city and there are multiple gem & mineral clubs and most of them have faceting classes or can hook you up with someone willing to teach you. They may also have faceting equipment you can use so you don't need to spend the money on buying your own until you're a bit more experienced. Taking the GIA classes for gemstones is a good idea too - they're not too expensive and most of it can be done online.

 

[Starzin]

If you are serious about this, I'd hold off the buying for now, go full steam into learning mode and slow down.
1. Learning from a person side by side (mentoring) is the fastest and best method. Learning from books and online has its own pros and cons.
2. Would be a great idea to consider getting your GIA training
3. Join a gem cutting club if there is one local to you. Start by cutting synthetics and/or very cheap material.

This, this, this. I'm in a big city and there are multiple gem & mineral clubs and most of them have faceting classes or can hook you up with someone willing to teach you. They may also have faceting equipment you can use so you don't need to spend the money on buying your own until you're a bit more experienced. Taking the GIA classes for gemstones is a good idea too - they're not too expensive and most of it can be done online.

Couldn't agree more with Distracts. I belong to a local rockhounds group with faceting and cabbing facilities and classes. The folk are very knowledgeable, helpful and passionate too

That will allow you to get your hands on stuff while learning the science. If you want to start with free knowledge while you start the hands on, try this http://www.bwsmigel.info/home.html. Barbara Smigel ran http://www.acstones.com/ before Barry Bridgestock took it over a few years ago and it's still linked to at the bottom of his home page. This lets you decide which bits of the industry you are really interested in before outlaying too much money. Unfortunately, it's mostly maths and science before the pretty gems bit

ETA: Barry is a well known and recommended vendor here at PS.

 

[bazargan]

Bazargans: I wish you much luck and wish that at your age I had had the courage to respect my love of gems and follow it So good on you! Everybody is right in their advice to you and I am happy you are so open to it. We see beginners like you all the time (here and on a website which we are not allowed to link to but if you google "Gemology forums" it will likely be the first one to pop up ) who believe that profits will be easy once they have a minimal skill set. Check out some of the following Facebook groups and I think you'll see that there are a lot of beautiful, impeccably cut gemstones that gemcutters are practically giving away for whatever reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/finegemsandcabs/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/68020651777/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/591997170850826/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/244923205591881/


These are but a few of the many, many, many gem and jewelry groups available on FB. These people are extremely knowledgeable and kind. This, in addition to the website I mentioned above, plus the GIA distance learning will give you the knowledge and contacts you need.

As for buying now, it is almost impossible to resist the urge. There are countless PS members (including myself) who all did exactly what you did - go out and buy stones early on hoping they were good deals. In my particular case, I spent much more than you did at Trade shows. Did I waste the money? Yes, I guess I really did - but on the other hand, it is the way I learn. Everyone is different, and I kind of had to start somewhere, even if I did not get any bargains. That was my start -- just as these stones were yours. Congratulations and welcome to the addiction!

Many thanks minousbijoux,
I did join all the FB groups you suggested and also gonna subscribe in a good gemology forum as you said . I took a look at FB groups. awesome place to learn more tips! specially in the comments area.

Thanks to all of you guys
I am happy and excited that you guys offered me years of your experience to clear the successful start.

 

[minousbijoux]

Bazargans: I wish you much luck and wish that at your age I had had the courage to respect my love of gems and follow it So good on you! Everybody is right in their advice to you and I am happy you are so open to it. We see beginners like you all the time (here and on a website which we are not allowed to link to but if you google "Gemology forums" it will likely be the first one to pop up ) who believe that profits will be easy once they have a minimal skill set. Check out some of the following Facebook groups and I think you'll see that there are a lot of beautiful, impeccably cut gemstones that gemcutters are practically giving away for whatever reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/finegemsandcabs/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/68020651777/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/591997170850826/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/244923205591881/


These are but a few of the many, many, many gem and jewelry groups available on FB. These people are extremely knowledgeable and kind. This, in addition to the website I mentioned above, plus the GIA distance learning will give you the knowledge and contacts you need.

As for buying now, it is almost impossible to resist the urge. There are countless PS members (including myself) who all did exactly what you did - go out and buy stones early on hoping they were good deals. In my particular case, I spent much more than you did at Trade shows. Did I waste the money? Yes, I guess I really did - but on the other hand, it is the way I learn. Everyone is different, and I kind of had to start somewhere, even if I did not get any bargains. That was my start -- just as these stones were yours. Congratulations and welcome to the addiction!

Many thanks minousbijoux,
I did join all the FB groups you suggested and also gonna subscribe in a good gemology forum as you said . I took a look at FB groups. awesome place to learn more tips! specially in the comments area.

Thanks to all of you guys
I am happy and excited that you guys offered me years of your experience to clear the successful start.

Who know? In a few years, we'll probably all be buying from you!