Wildfishgems crowd funding?

[liao]

If i remember correctly, the owner is a PS member. mind explaining this?
http://www.wildfishgems.com/gem_fund

look like a next generation of pyramid scheme to me. you can make profit when someone buy the "funded" gem. You will make another profit when the investor decide to 'exit' your game.

"Choose a gem inside your preference at 125% of your initial share value."

come on, 25% interest per year? it is more than 20% annual interest compounded every month! I am not trying to bad mouthing wildfishgems, but this is ...

 

[T L]

We always tout here that gemstones are a horrible investment.

Besides who is appraising these stones and giving them their value?? LOL!

What if Ed is not around in five years?

Very odd.

Oh, and I never saw any proof for this, which would be nice.

"P.S. and we continue to buy rainforest, rescue dogs and stuff..."

 

[Marlow]

Investment - why not....

You need a stone like this - cobalt spinel

http://www.supershinegems.net/shoparea/itemdetails.php?item_id=2095

find a nice and friendly and skilled custom cutter....

and ABRAKADABRA

look at "more images"

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11030/18118

you sell it 10 times higher....

you only need an uneducated maybe stupid person with to much money...

Am I jealous? No - I buy this quality for 200 pct - not for 5000!!!

 

[GregS]

I think it's safe to say that even if Wildfish is still around after 5 years and you "cash in" on your "investment" you still will not crest the mark-up.

 

[VapidLapid]

Im no financial wizard, but I think the very idea of economic growth is a ponzi scheme.

 

[liao]

Im no financial wizard, but I think the very idea of economic growth is a ponzi scheme.

ponzi scheme is an example of pyramid scheme, but it was so famous that people start calling it 'Ponzi scheme'. it is the same as the term "google". Instead of saying "search it on google", google was so famous that people start saying "google it"

Yes, I agree that this is Ponzi scheme. They have taken a lot of forms, from investment banks, health supplements distributor, food & beverage distributor, cosmetic manufacture, and now... gemstone dealer! Apparently, there is no known duration on how long pyramid scheme will last, but the largest and the longest one was the Madoff's case

Honestly, I am not entirely agree with the idea of investing in gemstone, but the potential return is often mouth watering.

Investment - why not....

You need a stone like this - cobalt spinel

http://www.supershinegems.net/shoparea/itemdetails.php?item_id=2095

find a nice and friendly and skilled custom cutter....

and ABRAKADABRA

look at "more images"

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11030/18118

you sell it 10 times higher....

you only need an uneducated maybe stupid person with to much money...

Am I jealous? No - I buy this quality for 200 pct - not for 5000!!!

I am not sure if you can call this an 'investment'. I would rather call this a form (proper subset) of arbitrage because you are taking advantage of the seller's lack of ability/knowledge to recut the stone

 

[VapidLapid]

wordfart

 

[arkieb1]

It sounds like another sugar coated way to sell over priced gemstones. So if I outlay $10 000 in one years time I can pick a gem with an over inflated value of $12500 which has an actual worth (real wholesale or fire sale value) of $3000.00 to $5000.00. Forgive me but I won't be rushing to sign up.

 

[minousbijoux]

I don't like the fact that he posted the exact same info here, but under the auspices of interesting data about historical pricing and treatments of gemstones, not marketing materials for a new moneymaking scheme.

And arkieb1, I'll be right behind you in the non-sign up line.

 

[T L]

I don't like the fact that he posted the exact same info here, but under the auspices of interesting data about historical pricing and treatments of gemstones, not marketing materials for a new moneymaking scheme.

And arkieb1, I'll be right behind you in the non-sign up line.

I think he should be removed from the recommended vendor list. I personally think that this is unethical behavior, and doesn't stand for what this forum is about. I can't in good conscious recommend him as a vendor when he's doing this kind of thing to people that are not as educated about colored stones as we are.

 

[Marlow]

I agree 100% with you, TL!

Thats why I post this cobalt spinel - I would not be surpriced if this vendor is the source for this spinel - recutting is around 200$.

It is usury!!! Might be legal but this vendor def. makes profit with uneducated people. What is more frustating - buying a 100$ Tanzanite via Ebay and dicover it is a fake or spending 16K for a 1500 $ gem ???

Thats why I alway reply if somebody here link a stone of this vendor!!!

Remember Saracen padpararadscha !!!

 

[LoversKites]

I don't like the fact that he posted the exact same info here, but under the auspices of interesting data about historical pricing and treatments of gemstones, not marketing materials for a new moneymaking scheme.

And arkieb1, I'll be right behind you in the non-sign up line.

I think he should be removed from the recommended vendor list. I personally think that this is unethical behavior, and doesn't stand for what this forum is about. I can't in good conscious recommend him as a vendor when he's doing this kind of thing to people that are not as educated about colored stones as we are.

I am not savvy with these money type things. But from what I have understood, yes, I agree with you. Won't be recommending him either.

 

[LoversKites]

Investment - why not....

You need a stone like this - cobalt spinel

http://www.supershinegems.net/shoparea/itemdetails.php?item_id=2095

find a nice and friendly and skilled custom cutter....

and ABRAKADABRA

look at "more images"

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11030/18118

you sell it 10 times higher....

you only need an uneducated maybe stupid person with to much money...

Am I jealous? No - I buy this quality for 200 pct - not for 5000!!!

That is an absoloutely stupid price.

 

[Marlow]

The most interesting fact that there are many shareholder but only ONE person who makes the prices!!!!

I give him 10K - after two years I have around 15K and I am allowed to get a gem out of the stock...

A gem HE bought and HE priced - a gem from a cheap Thai vendor or Sri Lanka vendor - bought for cheap money !!!

10 x 10K = 100.000 - lets say he spend 20.000 for 10 reserved gems and the rest to buy MORE gems for the stock!!

And by the way - you have to take a 2500 gem each year!!!

Fishy gem store!!!

 

[Edward Bristol]

Just for those who don't know: Per forum-rules, I am not allowed to explain or comment here but I am not doing anything unethical (even if my offer may not be attractive for those who spent a semi-pro live in gems)

And, yes, we buy rainforest every month, and rescue dogs, sponsor animal rights NGO.

 

[arkieb1]

What the website is not admitting when selling these "investment plans" is their retail markup on the gems. Sure the price of most gems over time has and will go up, but if you are only getting something that already has a retail markup of 200%, 300%, 500% or whatever added on to it then it's never going to be a bargain, even if you get to pick something worth 25%+ more than your initial outlay.

If the website was marketing actual shares in parcels of stones that they were reselling and the buyers were making the difference - so the profit that other people purchase the stones for as a percentage was distributed to the shareholders then that would be a fair proposition. But that isn't the way it works in this case.

Since you claim you buy a rainforest every month, how many rainforest and animal habitats do you and your wholesalers destroy to find the gems you source? No-one ever talks about the parts of the environment in many of these places that are being destroyed by mining....

Claiming that you buy rainforest and rescue dogs doesn't make something little more than a glorified Ponzi scheme more palatable IMHO.

 

[LoversKites]

Ed, if you ask the moderators they may make an exception regarding the rules considering the content of this thread. I think you should...

 

[T L]

And, yes, we buy rainforest every month, and rescue dogs, sponsor animal rights NGO.

So I should believe you because you say it. Besides, even if you do, I think its wrong to use charities and their logos, labels of Jeweler's Ethics Association (who clearly advises against using investment jargon in their terms of membership), to bring attention to ridiculous investment schemes like this. Slapping a charity or integrity on something doesn't make it right.

 

[Marlow]

Just for those who don't know: Per forum-rules, I am not allowed to explain or comment here but I am not doing anything unethical (even if my offer may not be attractive for those who spent a semi-pro live in gems)

And, yes, we buy rainforest every month, and rescue dogs, sponsor animal rights NGO.

Your"offer" is only interesting for YOU - your shareholder "buy" a gem in the future ( you have enough in your stock ) and you get fresh money - o.k. - then they only pay 10000 after two years for a 15000 gem they could get for 2000 or 3000 elsewhere - what a great deal!!!

Your buiness is imo unethical - and buying rainforest or help poor dogs - this is marketing! Cheap marketing!!

 

[T L]

What the website is not admitting when selling these "investment plans" is their retail markup on the gems. Sure the price of most gems over time has and will go up, but if you are only getting something that already has a retail markup of 200%, 300%, 500% or whatever added on to it then it's never going to be a bargain, even if you get to pick something worth 25%+ more than your initial outlay.

EXACTLY!

 

[liao]

Just for those who don't know: Per forum-rules, I am not allowed to explain or comment here but I am not doing anything unethical (even if my offer may not be attractive for those who spent a semi-pro live in gems)

And, yes, we buy rainforest every month, and rescue dogs, sponsor animal rights NGO.

come on, I did my dissertation on pyramid scheme (ponzi scheme). I have seen hundreds business model of pyramid scheme. Imagine if bernard madoff buy rainforest every month, rescue dogs, and sponsor animal rights NGO, do you think SEC will consider his business practice ethical and legal? Doing something good does not turn unethical practices ethical

Beside, I do agree with many post above! you are the one that buy the stone and set the price of the stone, and most of your stone are extremely overpriced

I agree with TL. you use "Jeweler's Ethics Association" for your UNETHICAL business practices

 

[VapidLapid]

I do not believe that Ed is running a Ponzi scheme.
Many projects are ethically funded through Crown Funding.
I do not think that Edward's method is actually crowd funding. It is much more like a subscription type plan.
Many past members of this forum have bought from him and been very happy. Some returned stones and were equally happy with Ed's return policy.
I do think that Ed endeavors only to source stones ethically, supporting independent miners. As good as that is, it does not add to the intrinsic value of the gem. Unless those values are very important to the gem buyer. I believe that Edward is committed to dealing in only natural untreated material.
I do think that Wildfish Co's charitable deeds should not be worn on the sleeve or used as a PR tactic.
I do believe that Wildfish's gems are wildly over-priced for the general marketplace; but I do not know his costs or overhead.
I do believe the return on the particular funding "offer" in question is dubious at best. If I buy a $10k stone as a member with 25% discount it is $7,500. If I do the crowd fund thing and put in 10k for a year (losing whatever return I might be getting if I kept that in with my normal investments for the year) I get to pick a $12,500 stone, that i could have bought with a 25% members discount or with one of his 33% sale vouchers for $9,375 or $8,375 respectively, without tying up my money first for a year. The 25% member discount is $625 better and doesn't tie my funds up, the sale is immediate.
I think that Edward would be well advised to discontinue this "Crowd Fund" thing, and that if he does he should be allowed to stay on the list. We have all always known that Wildfish is overpriced, and consumers are consistently advised so here, but still look and make their own choices.

 

[VapidLapid]

If i remember correctly, the owner is a PS member. mind explaining this?
http://www.wildfishgems.com/gem_fund

look like a next generation of pyramid scheme to me. you can make profit when someone buy the "funded" gem. You will make another profit when the investor decide to 'exit' your game.

"Choose a gem inside your preference at 125% of your initial share value."

come on, 25% interest per year? it is more than 20% annual interest compounded every month! I am not trying to bad mouthing wildfishgems, but this is ...

I believe this statement was disingenuous as revealed by the venom of your subsequent posts.

The mob mentality here and the bringing in of fantasy scenarios such as:

"Thats why I post this cobalt spinel - I would not be surpriced if this vendor is the source for this spinel - recutting is around 200$.

It is usury!!! Might be legal but this vendor def. makes profit with uneducated people. What is more frustating - buying a 100$ Tanzanite via Ebay and dicover it is a fake or spending 16K for a 1500 $ gem ???

Thats why I alway reply if somebody here link a stone of this vendor!!!"

Remember Saracen padpararadscha !!!"

is intellectually as unethical, or more so, than any of the allegations about Wildfish's practices.

 

[MollyMalone]

Thank you so much, VL, for these excellent posts!

 

[Ella]

Vendors can clarify in threads as long as the post does not use promotional language, does not disparage other vendors, does not redirect users to their site, etc. It would be fine Ed for you to clarify.

 

[T L]

I think that Edward would be well advised to discontinue this "Crowd Fund" thing, and that if he does he should be allowed to stay on the list.

I disagree. I can't let my conscious let him stay on the list after coming up with this. In my almost 30 years of collecting/buying colored stones, I have never seen anything like this, and I thought I've seen it all.

Why on Earth would someone want all this money up front on extremely overpriced gems?? How is a certificate any proof you'll even see your money back again? I also have yet to see any proof of his ethical mining practices, or charitable contributions. He's already not taking his membership in JEA seriously with this latest infraction.

This is most importantly a consumer forum, first and foremost, and it is our duty to protect people and their hard earned money from dealers like this.

Let's not get this into, "oh poor Ed, another mob mentality." I don't know how Ed is going to talk himself out of this one, and he can defend himself, but the idea of giving away my money to a retailer for an "investment," especially in a far off country, mind you, is rather scary to me.

 

[VapidLapid]

Then we disagree. I am not comfortable in saying that a member of JEA has committed infractions against that membership before JEA does.
Saying mob mentality was happening in this thread was correct, as the points raised were not valid, not germane to the issue. Marlow hypothesizing about unethical and shady stone procurement and then extrapolating his fantasy to Edward was grossly unfair. The OP came in, a member of two weeks who it was nearly impossible for the forum to talk out of buying a crappy cat eye sapphire from a very trusted vendor begins the thread sounding innocent and naive making allegations about a pyramid scheme that does not exist, and a few posts later reveals that he/she wrote his/her dissertation on the subject??

I know you've always had issues with Wildfish, and they were valid, but this here today is not.

 

[VapidLapid]

Further no one cried foul when Roger Dery used a reward based funding site to go to Africa to film his charitable works in teaching the locals about faceting. There was no foul. No one faults Gene Flanigan for rescuing dogs and saying so on his selling platform, so why is that so reprehensible from Ed?

And for disclosure, I have never bought from Ed, but I have from both Gene and Roger, very happily, and am glad to help champion their causes too.

 

[liao]

I think that Edward would be well advised to discontinue this "Crowd Fund" thing, and that if he does he should be allowed to stay on the list.

I disagree. I can't let my conscious let him stay on the list after coming up with this. In my almost 30 years of collecting/buying colored stones, I have never seen anything like this, and I thought I've seen it all.

Why on Earth would someone want all this money up front on extremely overpriced gems?? How is a certificate any proof you'll even see your money back again? I also have yet to see any proof of his ethical mining practices, or charitable contributions. He's already not taking his membership in JEA seriously with this latest infraction.

This is most importantly a consumer forum, first and foremost, and it is our duty to protect people and their hard earned money from dealers like this.

Let's not get this into, "oh poor Ed, another mob mentality." I don't know how Ed is going to talk himself out of this one, and he can defend himself, but the idea of giving away my money to a retailer for an "investment," especially in a far off country, mind you, is rather scary to me.

basically this ^
it's not about venomous post. This is about unethical business practice. There is a huge difference between the real crowd-funding and pyramid scheme. Read this:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/042104.asp
http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/10/22/crowdfunding-potential-legal-disaster-waiting-to-happen/

 

[T L]

Further no one cried foul when Roger Dery used a reward based funding site to go to Africa to film his charitable works in teaching the locals about faceting. There was no foul. No one faults Gene Flanigan for rescuing dogs and saying so on his selling platform, so why is that so reprehensible from Ed?

And for disclosure, I have never bought from Ed, but I have from both Gene and Roger, very happily, and am glad to help champion their causes too.

I don't know about Roger Dery's reward based funding, , so I cannot comment on that, but I think Gene Flanigan charges very fair pricing, and doesn't use his business to fund his puppy charity. He only uses his business website to highlight it and bring attention to it and asks that people donate to the charity, NOT TO HIM, so he can donate on their behalf. He even auctions off stones to help fund the puppy charity. This is far different than using an investment page with lots of charity logos, so you'll be able to better market your investment.