Tourmaline E/ring?

Written by talamasca » April 22nd, 2011, 4:31 am:I was originally going to get a 7 mm pink spinel, but since I would prefer a stone that's about 9 mm it's been suggested that I get a tourmaline instead as this would be more in my budget, however it's for an engagement ring and the type of setting I like is very open so I'm nervous in case of damage! Just exactly how likely is it to damage a tourmaline if you take care of it, i.e. don't wear at night/doing housework, etc?

Also, should I ask my jeweller if they're OK with setting a tourmaline as I understand some aren't?

I suppose if I did get a tourmaline and it did get damaged it would be cheaper to replace than others!?

This is certainly true, and since 9mm is a substantial size,it will sit up higher on your finger than a smaller size, it's more likely to get thunked, and so you are practically guaranteed that you will have to replace it at some point. Could you post a photo of the setting you are considering?

If you search the forum for "damaged tourmaline" you will find heart breaking stories of small accidents that damaged tourmaline. I won't repeat any of them because they are not my own, but I will tell you it is SO easy to hurt a tourmaline that I would not want it for an E/Ring even if I was careful with my hands. Please, get a spinel.

I would probably go for a garnet over a tourmaline - although I wouldn't write tourmaline off if you are prepared for possible accidents and/or future repolishes.

I know people can be funny about garnets - everyone thinks they are the cheapy reddish brown ones - I've had some interesting responses to my e-ring when I've said it's a garnet, although on the whole people are interested to learn that they come in almost all colours. For me, garnets are fascinating stones and I love them!

Spinel would still be my first choice but may well cost a bit more.

My wife wore a tourmaline ring every day, all day and night for years, and there was no sign of any wear on it. She bent the setting once, and that had to be fixed, but the stone was fine.

I live and die in my tourmalines and they are just fine. I am careful not to wear jewellery while I work (grinders bad) or at the gym or yoga.

My wife wears her tourmaline e-ring everyday, I have re-polished it once in the 20+ years she has had it, even so it has held up very well. Her life and hobbies are not what I would consider normal wear and tear.

It will get chipped, if you loupe it, you will see the chips. I have several chipped tourmaline rings, and I don't wear them everyday. I'm also not hard on my jewelry. Also many pink tourmaline is irradiated, so please stick with a spinel. You'll at least be assured of getting what you pay for.

Written by Aoife » April 22nd, 2011, 6:22 am:Could you post a photo of the setting you are considering?

This is what I'm hoping the mounting will look like when it's finished.

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Written by TL » April 22nd, 2011, 11:48 am:Also many pink tourmaline is irradiated, so please stick with a spinel.

Even if I go with a well known gem cutter and wouldn't it state in the description if it had been treated?

The score so far = 3 yes - 3 no - 1 may be

I wore my tourmaline everyday for a few years and the stone stone is definitely lightly chipped and the facets need to be repolished, but not in a way that's immediately noticeable. I don't think it would make a good everyday forever stone, which is part of which I retired it to more occasional use.

Maybe I'm sentimental, but the idea of wearing a stone knowing it will be damaged and replaced eventually makes me kinda sad... Better, IMO, to use the right material for the right purpose. Plus, you don't really know what's going to happen in the tourmaline market by the time you're ready to replace it. Spinels used to be pretty cheap...

Perhaps you could look for an oval spinel? Ovals and marquises always look larger to me than rounds.

Written by Pandora » April 22nd, 2011, 8:23 am:I would probably go for a garnet over a tourmaline - although I wouldn't write tourmaline off if you are prepared for possible accidents and/or future repolishes.

I know people can be funny about garnets - everyone thinks they are the cheapy reddish brown ones - I've had some interesting responses to my e-ring when I've said it's a garnet, although on the whole people are interested to learn that they come in almost all colours. For me, garnets are fascinating stones and I love them!

Spinel would still be my first choice but may well cost a bit more.

Aren't garnets softer than tourmalines though?

This is the colour I love - do garnets come as light as this?

http://www.acstones.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=82&idproduct=3644

There are some very pretty pink spinels on gemfix.com, both in the new gems and the spinel sections you might want to check out.

Written by velouriaL » April 23rd, 2011, 1:27 am:Maybe I'm sentimental, but the idea of wearing a stone knowing it will be damaged and replaced eventually makes me kinda sad... Better, IMO, to use the right material for the right purpose. Plus, you don't really know what's going to happen in the tourmaline market by the time you're ready to replace it. Spinels used to be pretty cheap...

Perhaps you could look for an oval spinel? Ovals and marquises always look larger to me than rounds.

Me too, that's why I'm so undecided as I would really prefer not to have to replace the stone.

I think I really need to see some 1.50 spinels and may be some 2.00-2.50 tourmalines on my hand/finger to determine what size I prefer. I'm waiting for my jeweller to get back to me about viewing some gems, but not heard anything yet.

I've tried on a 1.65 ruby and 2.15 ruby and much preferred the 2.15 size which is why I think a 1.50 might be a bit smaller than I'd prefer, but then once it's set in the ring with a couple of trilliant diamonds at the side it probably wouldn't look that small! I wish I'd been able to find out the mm of the rubies as well!

Written by velouriaL » April 23rd, 2011, 1:35 am:There are some very pretty pink spinels on gemfix.com, both in the new gems and the spinel sections you might want to check out.

Yeah, I really liked the 5th one down left-hand side, but in the end I decided it was too dark! I might ask if they have anything lighter.

http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 1:30 am:

Written by Pandora » April 22nd, 2011, 8:23 am:I would probably go for a garnet over a tourmaline - although I wouldn't write tourmaline off if you are prepared for possible accidents and/or future repolishes.

I know people can be funny about garnets - everyone thinks they are the cheapy reddish brown ones - I've had some interesting responses to my e-ring when I've said it's a garnet, although on the whole people are interested to learn that they come in almost all colours. For me, garnets are fascinating stones and I love them!

Spinel would still be my first choice but may well cost a bit more.

Aren't garnets softer than tourmalines though?

This is the colour I love - do garnets come as light as this?

http://www.acstones.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=82&idproduct=3644

Garnets are about the same hardness as tourmaline, except for demantoid garnet, which is slightly softer. They are all around a 7 on the Mohs scale. You do have to show more care with stones softer than an 8, and a lot more care with stones softer than a 7.

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 1:30 am:

Written by Pandora » April 22nd, 2011, 8:23 am:I would probably go for a garnet over a tourmaline - although I wouldn't write tourmaline off if you are prepared for possible accidents and/or future repolishes.

I know people can be funny about garnets - everyone thinks they are the cheapy reddish brown ones - I've had some interesting responses to my e-ring when I've said it's a garnet, although on the whole people are interested to learn that they come in almost all colours. For me, garnets are fascinating stones and I love them!

Spinel would still be my first choice but may well cost a bit more.

Aren't garnets softer than tourmalines though?

This is the colour I love - do garnets come as light as this?

http://www.acstones.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=82&idproduct=3644

Rarely, you can find some garnets that light, but it's hard to find pastel pink garnets. I have one that looks like that in incandescent light, but it turns more peachy in daylight. It's a malaya garnet. Spinels come in that shade far more often.

Thanks for all the help everyone and I've decided to stay with the original plan and get an oval spinel, hopefully about 7 mm.

I just need to find one in my colour now

Hi Talamasca
You asked: >>>Even if I go with a well known gem cutter and wouldn't it state in the description if it had been treated?<<<

If the gem cutter is working from rough, they often (but not always) have worked out the chain of possession from where it was mined till it arrives in their hands. Therefore, they will have some idea as to whether the rough they acquire has been treated, or not. Some cutters newer to the craft may not have the time into the trade to develop the relationships necessary to make this possible.

If they are in a position where they choose to recut existing stones, then it is likely they will not know its true origin, or of any treatments.

I hope you find this helpful.

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 7:32 am:Thanks for all the help everyone and I've decided to stay with the original plan and get an oval spinel, hopefully about 7 mm.

I just need to find one in my colour now

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Exquisite-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/370328737534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56395016fe

I love this one, and it's well cut too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Outstanding-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/350351968388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51929ac884

Both have negative crystal inclusions indicative of natural material, but he does provide reputable lab reports for an added fee.

This is very pastel pink

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-37ct-Flawless-AAA-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/330400241429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ced639715

Gem 705 on this page may be too large for you, but it's been on his website forever, and I like the cut on it. It's very pretty.

http://precisiongem.com/html/html/Spinel.html

Written by TL » April 23rd, 2011, 7:55 am:

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 7:32 am:Thanks for all the help everyone and I've decided to stay with the original plan and get an oval spinel, hopefully about 7 mm.

I just need to find one in my colour now

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Exquisite-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/370328737534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56395016fe

I love this one, and it's well cut too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Outstanding-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/350351968388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51929ac884

Both have negative crystal inclusions indicative of natural material, but he does provide reputable lab reports for an added fee.

This is very pastel pink

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-37ct-Flawless-AAA-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/330400241429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ced639715

Gem 705 on this page may be too large for you, but it's been on his website forever, and I like the cut on it. It's very pretty.

http://precisiongem.com/html/html/Spinel.html

Thanks so much for posting these cos I was beginning to think the colour I like might be hard to get. Barry hasn't got anything so I've contacted Dan Stair, Gemfix and Precision Gem.

I'm not sure how I feel about inclusions/bubbles

I've looked at Gem 705 a couple of times, but to be honest I'm not keen on the chequer board cut though the colour is lovely.

Are these pics at 10x magnification cos I just wondered whether they look the same in real life

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 10:34 am:

Written by TL » April 23rd, 2011, 7:55 am:

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 7:32 am:Thanks for all the help everyone and I've decided to stay with the original plan and get an oval spinel, hopefully about 7 mm.

I just need to find one in my colour now

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Exquisite-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/370328737534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56395016fe

I love this one, and it's well cut too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Outstanding-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/350351968388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51929ac884

Both have negative crystal inclusions indicative of natural material, but he does provide reputable lab reports for an added fee.

This is very pastel pink

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-37ct-Flawless-AAA-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/330400241429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ced639715

Gem 705 on this page may be too large for you, but it's been on his website forever, and I like the cut on it. It's very pretty.

http://precisiongem.com/html/html/Spinel.html

Thanks so much for posting these cos I was beginning to think the colour I like might be hard to get. Barry hasn't got anything so I've contacted Dan Stair, Gemfix and Precision Gem.

I'm not sure how I feel about inclusions/bubbles

I've looked at Gem 705 a couple of times, but to be honest I'm not keen on the chequer board cut though the colour is lovely.

Are these pics at 10x magnification cos I just wondered whether they look the same in real life

I have several spinels with small bubbles like that, and I can barely see them, if at all, with the naked eye. Those are magnified 100 fold or more, so you have to remember, it's unlikely you will see them. I prefer them as there are so many synthetic spinels on the market and those inclusions show they're natural.

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 10:34 am:

Written by TL » April 23rd, 2011, 7:55 am:

Written by talamasca » April 23rd, 2011, 7:32 am:Thanks for all the help everyone and I've decided to stay with the original plan and get an oval spinel, hopefully about 7 mm.

I just need to find one in my colour now

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Exquisite-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/370328737534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56395016fe

I love this one, and it's well cut too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-50ct-Outstanding-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/350351968388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51929ac884

Both have negative crystal inclusions indicative of natural material, but he does provide reputable lab reports for an added fee.

This is very pastel pink

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-37ct-Flawless-AAA-Oval-Portuguese-Natural-Pink-Spinel-/330400241429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ced639715

Gem 705 on this page may be too large for you, but it's been on his website forever, and I like the cut on it. It's very pretty.

http://precisiongem.com/html/html/Spinel.html

Thanks so much for posting these cos I was beginning to think the colour I like might be hard to get. Barry hasn't got anything so I've contacted Dan Stair, Gemfix and Precision Gem.

I'm not sure how I feel about inclusions/bubbles

I've looked at Gem 705 a couple of times, but to be honest I'm not keen on the chequer board cut though the colour is lovely.

Are these pics at 10x magnification cos I just wondered whether they look the same in real life

I find the inclusions to be extremely interesting and reassuring !!!
In fact, with my eye, I don't even really see any inclusions, at least in most of my stones.
it's when I take pictures and then enlarge them I say "WOW ! ""
I found a couple of chips on girdles that way, as a matter of fact *(both Tourmalines, wouldn't you know....)
I don't routinely loupe my stones, once I saw the chips I ran my fingernail across the girdle and yep.....

You might contact the cutters as well. They often have other things not on their site. Dam Stair maybe, too.

I know a lot of people have "shrinkage" wherein they get used to size and want bigger, but I had the opposite with my 8.5mm and wished it were smaller and more wearbale for everyday. For what it's worth!

I will agree with both the Trade members as well as the other members; But if I had to do another for my wife in an engagement setting it would surely be a spinel...

Tourmaline is fine if there are no internal issues and you do not wear it in a abrasive environment; but to be confident it will last longer I stay with 8 in hardness on an everyday ring. My wife has both and they both have survived over 10 years; but when under the microscope the spinels have much less abrasion than the tourmalines. Plus I love the dispersion on the spinel better than tourmaline; except for some of the Badakshan Afghanistan stuff which to me is a novelty as it really has unusually high dispersion.

But I would go for spinel if it were me and in that 3 stone mount I am sure you could find a dealer or cutter that could make you a very pretty suite...

Most Respectfully;

Dana

Talamasca:

I too have a love hate relationship with inclusions. I really want to like them, especially when they are visible, but most of the time they are a distraction to me instead of adding "character" or "personality" or glow.

I have to say, though, that I can't imagine that you would be able to see with your naked eye the negative crystals seen in the videos of the ones TL suggests.

TL: I love those inclusions, because they remind me of a little fleet of space troopers...a child of too many Star Wars movies I guess

There is scratching, and then there is chipping. I see chipped diamonds all the time when my wife's friends come over and want to put their stones under my microscope. Very often when I call on a jeweler, they bring out chipped sapphires that they want me to fix. Any stone can be chipped.

Have a look at Moh's hardness scale, and you will see there are not many things that will scratch a stone with a hardness of 7 to 8. Most steels are only a hardness of 4 to 4.5, glass is from 5 to 6.5.
So what will scratch a tourmaline or garnet? Well, tungsten carbide cutting tools, diamonds, sapphire, cubic zirconia some hardened steels.

Written by PrecisionGem » April 23rd, 2011, 9:28 pm:There is scratching, and then there is chipping. I see chipped diamonds all the time when my wife's friends come over and want to put their stones under my microscope. Very often when I call on a jeweler, they bring out chipped sapphires that they want me to fix. Any stone can be chipped.

Have a look at Moh's hardness scale, and you will see there are not many things that will scratch a stone with a hardness of 7 to 8. Most steels are only a hardness of 4 to 4.5, glass is from 5 to 6.5.
So what will scratch a tourmaline or garnet? Well, tungsten carbide cutting tools, diamonds, sapphire, cubic zirconia some hardened steels.

I'm heart broken that one of my cuprians has a huge scratch along the table. I have no idea how it got there, as I carefully store it, and wear it. No scratches on my spinels that I wear on a daily basis.