This is Like BAD Online Dating!

[iLander]

So, I've returned four stones in the last month, and it's starting to remind me of bad online dating; the photos are NOT living up to Real Life.

These are all our favorite vendors (who shall remain nameless), so I can't complain TOO much, because their return policies are excellent.

But I will complain anyway ; where are they getting these colors? I looked at a couple and no matter how many different lighting conditions I tried, I couldn't come up with what their cameras saw. Some stones looked just too dark, some looked even when they were zoned, some looked well cut and showed up with a bay window.

What the heck?

I'm starting to think I should limit myself to RL purchases, but that leaves me with over-priced, native cuts.

How can I reduce the amount of returns I am having to make?

I ask questions, maybe not the right ones. Which questions do you ask?

Are my expectations too high for my lowly budget? I bet that's some of it, but I am hoping the stone looks like the pic.

How many stones did you have to return?

 

[T L]

So, I've returned four stones in the last month, and it's starting to remind me of bad online dating; the photos are NOT living up to Real Life.

These are all our favorite vendors (who shall remain nameless), so I can't complain TOO much, because their return policies are excellent.

But I will complain anyway ; where are they getting these colors? I looked at a couple and no matter how many different lighting conditions I tried, I couldn't come up with what their cameras saw. Some stones looked just too dark, some looked even when they were zoned, some looked well cut and showed up with a bay window.

What the heck?

I'm starting to think I should limit myself to RL purchases, but that leaves me with over-priced, native cuts.

How can I reduce the amount of returns I am having to make?

I ask questions, maybe not the right ones. Which questions do you ask?

Are my expectations too high for my lowly budget? I bet that's some of it, but I am hoping the stone looks like the pic.

How many stones did you have to return?

I'm the "Queen of Returns," so I feel your pain. I could probably buy the Hope diamond for all the money I have spent on S&H back and forth. Personally, I just got so sick of being disappointed by some vendors who have inaccurate photos, that I just now stick with vendors that I can rely on for accurate images/videos. I know some popular vendors, who I would love to name, but I fear being cyber-stoned to death, that have the most inaccurate photos. There's one super popular vendor here that I know photoshops to death, and another that I think enahnces because I blew up his images and saw the backgrounds, in lots of cases, were the same color as the stone!! Over the course of my collecting career, I have returned so many, I lost count. One really popular vendor here told me I had a 85% return rate with him!! I won't name names, so don't worry.

That's why I always say, "ask questions." Ask about saturation, hue, tone, color shift, and extinction. Sometimes a vendor will tell you the truth, sometimes they won't, but it's better than just going off a photo.

 

[kelpie]

Sorry you are having a tough time. I usually find gems look better than the vendor's photo. You might ask for pictures in natural light against a hand to get a better idea of the color. I don't think your budget is unrealistic. I haven't spent over $400 on a loose colored gem but I have managed to collect some I absolutely adore. You'll find something you absolutely love in time, you've just gone in a bit head over heels. Be choosier.

 

[Pandora II]

Lots of people won't photoshop at all. Personally I want someone to sit with pic on screen, stone in hand and photoshop away till they match!

 

[T L]

Bob Kast is a vendor that I don't believe manipulates his photos in any way, and I actually find his photos be be true to life. While I understand that photoshop is beneficial in order to sometimes show off the proper color, I do believe some vendors use that excuse, and the stone really isn't the photoshopped color. I wish it were in most cases.

 

[LD]

I'm afraid that this is the "norm". There's very little that you can do to minimise other than what you're doing now i.e.

1. Ask for more photos in different lighting conditions
2. Ask specific questions (treatment, cut, etc)

Even then, a Vendor's perception may well not match yours.

For example, I had the pleasure of working with one of our lovely vendors just recently. We had some great (and really enjoyable) correspondence. He answered everything I needed, sent me photos etc BUT when the gem arrived, it just didn't match what I saw in the photos (or wanted to see). So I had to send it back. The vendor was superb at accepting it back and I most definitely will work with him again. He also knows that and as a result understands a bit more about what I like/don't like.

Going back years, for every one gem I'd keep, I'd see tons in person and either not buy or buy and return about 4 or 5. Now I am much more specific in my up front search but I still return items.

You may also find that you have more luck with certain gems than others as you can "read" them better! For example, don't ask me to find a blue/lilac spinel for you because I can't buy one! However, ask me to find you an Alexandrite and I can track one down fairly easily!

 

[T L]

Even then, a Vendor's perception may well not match yours.

Isn't that the truth!!? I was beginning to think I was color blind until I heard people, off PS, had similar experiences with the same vendors.

Another very popular vendor (here) told me a stone was "neon", "windex," "bright open color" about two separate stones. What I got for the first stone was overly grey (the windex neon one) and the other was super extinct (bright open color). He had a restocking fee, so I will never deal with him again. Unfortunately, I'm not as nice, nor patient as LD. I apologize I keep responding to this thread, but it has opened a can of worms for me, and I need to vent. Thank you for listening.

There's another vendor here, but not as popular as some, in which I ran into someone that bought two of his stones. She said they looked NOTHING like the photos. His photos are so obviously enhanced, it's ridiculous. I know that more than ever now after hearing about, and seeing some of his vendor photos compared to owner shots of the same gems. He actually admitted to this lady I spoke with, that 80% of his gems are returned, and they are quite expensive for what they are. Ugh!

BTW, I LOVE the title of this thread. It's like you're going to meet Prince Charming, and instead a frog shows up on your doorstep. LOL!

 

[K9]

It's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid. I have also found that MY color description is not always matching up to a vendor's description. Gems have so much more depth than can be captured in a photo - even if the photo is spot on, you really need to have it in your hand to know if you'll like it.

I have been striking out a lot lately and doing a lot of returns. Online gem shopping is very difficult!

 

[T L]

It's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid. I have also found that MY color description is not always matching up to a vendor's description. Gems have so much more depth than can be captured in a photo - even if the photo is spot on, you really need to have it in your hand to know if you'll like it.

I have been striking out a lot lately and doing a lot of returns. Online gem shopping is very difficult!

But isn't it nice when a stone turns out to be much better than the photo. I have had that happen to me on some occasions, and I wasn't expecting much, then I was bowled over when I opened the package, it was like winning the lottery.

 

[K9]

But isn't it nice when a stone turns out to be much better than the photo. I have had that happen to me on some occasions, and I wasn't expecting much, then I was bowled over when I opened the package, it was like winning the lottery.

You nailed it! It's the thrill of the hunt!!

 

[T L]

But isn't it nice when a stone turns out to be much better than the photo. I have had that happen to me on some occasions, and I wasn't expecting much, then I was bowled over when I opened the package, it was like winning the lottery.

You nailed it! It's the thrill of the hunt!!

I think it's those moments that keep us going, and in the meantime, we're still spending an arm and a leg on S&H for returns.

 

[K9]

I think it's those moments that keep us going, and in the meantime, we're still spending an arm and a leg on S&H for returns.

A small price to pay while searching for treasure.

 

[T L]

I think it's those moments that keep us going, and in the meantime, we're still spending an arm and a leg on S&H for returns.

A small price to pay while searching for treasure.

Honestly, I have been collecting for so long, I get vibes about certain vendors, and I stay away. I get these vibes based on how they answer my various questions about the gems. I also think PS is invaluable as people can see for themselves what they like, and what they don't like, from a particular vendor. It's important that we all keep sharing our experiences honestly.

This site has also helped some people improve their eye for color. Although we only have static photos to work with on this site, and I know some people complain about that, but it still helps. There is so much to be learned here about colored gems, and hopefully those S&H fees won't be as numerous in the long run. I know my S&H fees have gone down substantially over time. I'm always learning and watching, and I hope, making more educated decisions. Even my last few impulse purchases were great, so I can't complain much, but I know what it's like to walk in iLander's shoes. It really stinks when you give all your $$$ to the Post Office.

 

[Arcadian]

I think that given the medium in which the stone is sold, we have to do the best we can to determine if the color will suit us or not.


Buying anything on the internet when it comes to color related goods is very tricky mainly because all computer screens are not created equal.

I've had my fair share of stones that were slightly off from what I on the screen. Sometimes its not much, sometimes its by A LOT!!!

Even with a trusted vendor you have to see the stone in hand to see how it looks in your environment. In rocky talky there was a great thread up there about that very thing (will have to find it) but I can see where some of what was discussed applies to colored stones in a very big way.

I tend to really scrutinize video and pictures more, and I always ask questions if I can't be sure myself.

When I was on the spess hunt, saw 11, returned 10. I was ready to pull my hair out at the end of it, but I did get a great stone. twas just working my nerves though.

Some stones, I just immediately like, even if they weren't in my target color because I happen to like the stone's personality. I've also rejected stones that were in my target color range but I didn't like their personality.

So yeah, a bit like online dating...lol

-A

 

[y2kitty]

I really wonder who you guys are talking about...

 

[iLander]

BTW, I LOVE the title of this thread. It's like you're going to meet Prince Charming, and instead a frog shows up on your doorstep. LOL!

Lately, I've been getting picture of George Clooney, and then George Costanza shows up at my door . . .

 

[iLander]

I really wonder who you guys are talking about...

Not any one particular vendor, actually.

I've had terrible luck and then fabulous luck, both from the same vendor. I think it's so many variables; their camera, their lighting, my lighting when I get the stone, my monitor, the stone type, the cut, it goes on and on. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just grousing.

Because, like TL, I am spending the gross national product of a small country on shipping . . .

 

[T L]

BTW, I LOVE the title of this thread. It's like you're going to meet Prince Charming, and instead a frog shows up on your doorstep. LOL!

Lately, I've been getting picture of George Clooney, and then George Costanza shows up at my door . . .

Great analogy!!

 

[faegrace]

iLander ~

I too feel your pain. I don't find vendors photos particularly representative of the gems. I have had the great experience of the photos not doing the gem justice once, (my spess from DM), and only once.

Knowing what I know now, and feeling more secure in my tastes (cannot call it gem knowledge really), I would likely have returned the first two gems purchased. Great cuts but the colors don't do much for me. Anyway, I frequently wonder if there is some way to communicate differently, so gem representation is more accurate...? I have articulated what I am looking for with a few vendors. One never even responded to my e-mail, though he is selling the rough on his website of what I'm after. IT IS LIKE BAD DATING! (I swear, the online gem drops remind me of that commercial for birth control pills.., the one where all the women are shopping for things they want in their lives: cars, travel, babies. Then, just as a woman decides on a photo of certain man/boyfriend, another woman grabs it and into her basket he goes!)
I digress. I just wanted you to know you're not alone in the experience.

That said, I've had some wonderful exchanges with a couple of vendors. Perhaps that is how we determine who will be our vendor(s). From what I can tell, each person has different experiences with the same vendors.

~ faegrace

 

[T L]

I never bought anything from Marc Sarosi (Africagems.com), but I will communicate a good experience. At the time, I was looking for a tsavorite like Chrono's cushion. I saw a candidate on his site in the "for sale" gems category. It was very pretty in the photograph. He remarked it was very good color, and then I showed him a photo of Chrono's beautiful gem, and he said that although the tsavorite I was considering was nice, "it wasn't as fine a gem quality" that Chrono had. I always appreciated the honesty in that correspondence, and I wish more vendors were honest like him.

Oh and forget using gemewizard or the GIA gemset values to ask a vendor to rate a stone. For me, I've found it very confusing for them (except for Barry) and we obviously don't perceive gem color the same way. I had thought it would be a good tool to use in conveying color, but unfortunately, the gemset doesn't really show the true wide variety of all possible tones and saturations. It tries, but fails, in my estimation. I know Pandora has had good luck using it with her online shopping. I am in awe of her!!

 

[movie zombie]

....he said that although the tsavorite I was considering was nice, "it wasn't as fine a gem quality" that Chrono had. I always appreciated the honesty in that correspondence, and I wish more vendors were honest like him. quote]

i'm not sure many vendors want to admit they're not selling fine gem quality. however, for the price they are selling at, most are selling at a good price for gems that are NOT fine gem quality.

i think several things are going on:
1-buyers for the most part do not have the same eye or vocabulary as do those in the business,
2-those in the business want to make the sale but perhaps do not understand that many pricescopers have developed an eye,
3-after educating ourselves we still want fine gem quality at bargain basement prices,
4-not all monitors are created equal or set at equal settings
5-the fun color test revealed that some of us [if not many of us] perceive color differently in the first place.

many vendors specialize in certain price points. they too are restricted by budget constraints. admittedly, there are some vendors i would not approach for a high end, fine gem stone. not being snobby, just realistic as to inventory constraints.

MoZo

ps and i do think the comparison with online dating is dead-on! love the george clooney/george costanza comment!

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

This is one of the most interesting threads I have read in a while.

I am really trying to learn here, and I appreciate every nugget of advice that I can glean.
For all the pictures of stones posted, compared to vendor pictures, I learn.

I am trying very hard to learn to take good gemstone photos, but
realistically, I am not into using a fancy camera and lens.... Or different kinds of
light bulbs or etc.
I just want to take nice photos of gems in natural type surroundings as they would
appear to anyone's eye if they were seeing it outdoors (or indoors) like me.

And there is a HUGE learning curve !!! (Thanks, everyone who is helping me !)

So when I see a picture of a gem on a vendors site, I have a difficult time visualizing
how it is really going to look in my world.
ESPECIALLY those where the gem seems to be cut and pasted onto a white background.

I can't admit to having made more than a couple of purchases that I was disappointed with (but still didn't return)
but that prob speaks more to the fact that I don't know much, don't buy that much, or probably still don't
know the difference between good and great....

I think I am still in the world of learning what I personally prefer
as to stone colors or species....
So at this stage of the game, I am still figuring out what I like, narrowing it down,
and reading and looking and comparing to what is considered a fine example of the gem.
Which I will prob never afford, anyway.

I get that vendors have an interest in selling their stones, so want to picture them as accurately as possible, but
it seems like there are so many variables.....

 

[faegrace]

Shiney ~

Well said about the difference between good and great. I had the enlightening experience of falling in love with a sapphire (no price listed) only to discover it cost more than my car! And I have a pretty okay car.

~ faegrace

 

[T L]

I get that vendors have an interest in selling their stones, so want to picture them as accurately as possible

Actually, that's the prime reason to portray them inaccurately. A lot of vendors figure that many people won't bother returning them. What they do not figure is that they potentially lost a repeat customer, and word of mouth spreads, especially on this forum.

 

[movie zombie]

Shiney ~

Well said about the difference between good and great. I had the enlightening experience of falling in love with a sapphire (no price listed) only to discover it cost more than my car! And I have a pretty okay car.

~ faegrace

and therein lies the problem. great color stones are not inexpensive.

however, good stones are not to be knocked and have their place for most consumers, including pricescopers. good stones are certainly better than imitation/synthetics, glass, and just otherwise "bad" stones. the difference between a good stone and a great stone is more than noticeable....but so is the difference between a good stone and a bad stone. unfortunately, most budgets do not allow for each and every stone purchase to be a great stone purchase.


MoZo

 

[T L]

Shiney ~

Well said about the difference between good and great. I had the enlightening experience of falling in love with a sapphire (no price listed) only to discover it cost more than my car! And I have a pretty okay car.

~ faegrace

and therein lies the problem. great color stones are not inexpensive.

Except for emeralds, rubies and sapphires, we will have to agree to disagree on this. Many members of this forum have extremely beautiful colored gems, and they didn't cost an arm and a leg, and some were rather affordable, and untreated as well. There are some poorly colored gems that are overpriced as well, so one really should shop around with trusted vendors to get a good value. There are still some great values in the colored gem world. For example, I do believe faceted chrysoberyl can be had at excellent pricing for exceptional color.

 

[lelser]

Tom and I made the decision not to go for sexy gem photos. When I need sexy shots for magazines or promotional material, I have those taken elsewhere. Tom takes my normal photos, and the goal is to show the gem as accurately as possible, and to have the response to the actual gem be "wow, this is nicer than I expected!" I check each photo against the gem itself, and if the camera made changes to colour, edit the photo to look as much like the gem colour as possible.

We use Macs, which helps.

I'm happy that although we've gotten some returns because the gem wasn't right for a project, to my knowledge we've never gotten a return because it didn't look like the photo. I do ask for feedback from people about how the gem compared to the catalogue photo, because it is important that things be as realistic as possible. You don't want to make returns, I sure don't want to get them!

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

 

[iLander]

(I swear, the online gem drops remind me of that commercial for birth control pills.., the one where all the women are shopping for things they want in their lives: cars, travel, babies. Then, just as a woman decides on a photo of certain man/boyfriend, another woman grabs it and into her basket he goes!)

This is SO true. It's like a feeding frenzy!

Plus there is nothing more horrible than looking through a vendor's "sold" list. All the beauties that got away.

 

[iLander]

More ranting; there is not enough updating going on! I want new stones more often. There are some sites that I almost completely forget about, because I know there will be nothing new. I am greedy. . .

I know a lady that owns a little B&M novelty store. She moves stuff around, and rearranges every week. I'll go in and see something that looks new and she'll tell me it's been in the store for over a year, but in a different section. Refreshing works.

I had a vendor complain to me that it seemed impossible to compete with the lower-priced ebay stones (I am paraphrasing), but he only adds new stones about every 3-4 months. He does a good business, though, since his new stones sell out within a couple of weeks. So obviously, there is plenty of business to be had, but without updates, it's no fun to go see what's there, so he's missing out on business.

 

[iLander]

Tom and I made the decision not to go for sexy gem photos. When I need sexy shots for magazines or promotional material, I have those taken elsewhere. Tom takes my normal photos, and the goal is to show the gem as accurately as possible, and to have the response to the actual gem be "wow, this is nicer than I expected!" I check each photo against the gem itself, and if the camera made changes to colour, edit the photo to look as much like the gem colour as possible.

We use Macs, which helps.

I'm happy that although we've gotten some returns because the gem wasn't right for a project, to my knowledge we've never gotten a return because it didn't look like the photo. I do ask for feedback from people about how the gem compared to the catalogue photo, because it is important that things be as realistic as possible. You don't want to make returns, I sure don't want to get them!

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

No offense, but I, for one, would be more inclined to purchase your lovely products if the prices were listed. I assume they are very expensive based on their beauty and the old saying "If you have to ask, you can't afford it".

Just sayin' . . .