This is Like BAD Online Dating!

[Jim Rentfrow]

Faegrace,

Thanks for letting me know on the emails. I had missed about 10 in the last two weeks for some reason that went into my spam folder. I am so sorry for the delay. Once again Pricescope is helping not only consumers but vendors too! Thanks everyone for being open on these subjects. I can say some of my own stones are very hard to capture the real color. I try not to photo shop anything but even the camera can get it wrong. I recently had my first stone returned to me and I am glad to go through the experience. It has taught me how to try to make sure all the questions are answered ahead of time to make sure the customer will be very satisfied. Sometimes however, the stone just needs to be in hand to see the true color for yourself.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Sometimes however, the stone just needs to be in hand to see the true color for yourself.

I agree with this.
But sometimes I wonder about my eyes !!!!!

 

[iLander]

In my search for the pure red bubblegum stone I returned one stone to Gene.

He had it listed as orangey-red.

I emailed him and he said it was orangey-red.

I ordered it.

Guess what color it was?

Orangey-red.

Go figure.

He was very nice about it, and it was hassle free. His pictures were accurate, his description was accurate, his email was accurate. I was just being a dufus.

I think sometimes, in the search for a stone, we wish things into being, even if they don't really exist. At least I did in that case.

 

[mastercutgems]

Hello and Good Morning All

I find this to be one very interesting thread

I know it is tough buying a loose gem or piece of finished jewelry on the Internet; but yet it has opened a door to seeing more in one day online than a month of going from store to store.
I understand it is a basic law of nature for returns; first because the monitor can only show you so much as far as hue, saturation, brilliance, etc...
That is why most of use have a full return policy as we know what you are dealing with and it is a degree of uncertainty of your satisfaction; as we all know " beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...

I know at this stage in the game I tell all I can about the gem verbally and hope that what my photo lacks; my description will make up for. Will that work ??? who knows but I feel I am like the majority of the tradespeople we tell all we know and that is all we can do.

I know so many of us cutters keep the price as low as we can; but it is tough and it is getting tougher as there is less quality rough; there is more enhanced rough; and like Gene had said; if you think it is tough on the finished product buyer; how about buying rough off a photo... Very tough indeed as you really get it sometimes and sending it back to Pakistan, Tanzania, and even Sri lanka can be a task not for the weak of heart... Sometimes it is impossible... Many go to the country of origin to buy; do I ? no ; I did the math and for what I can pay for the trip I can buy about 5K dollars worth of selected rough; plus I do not have to leave my kids and family farm; not really an option for me...

So when we all see the masses upset about the postage they waste; please think of us vendors also as we eat a ton more postage than most; then there goes the profit and we have to add that into our initial cost of being in business. Not to mention making out the invoices, packaging, and then restocking when it comes back in; yes it is a cost of time; but to me that is all part of the business as I too have returned things also...

So I and many of the cutters and jewelry designers know your grief and we do understand and we also try to keep postage at bare cost and not padded in any way. I know sometimes the generated postage we charge is short of actual cost; but we just eat it and go on.

I know we all want to make our clients happy and in the end turn a modest profit so we can feed ourselves and our families. I just wanted you all to know we do understand and we all do our best to make this a enjoyable venture; will there be returns; YES; will we try our best to be honest and forthright; YES... But we know there will be a number of returns; I have some; not a lot; maybe it is because my pictures are so "horrible" that they are so happy it doesn't look like what they thought is was going to ???

This message was not meant to discredit or upset anyone; it was just a statement letting you all know that the vendors hate returns more than you do and we will always try our best to be as honest with our photos as we can

Most respectfully;

Dana

 

[iLander]

Okay ladies, 'fess up; who saw a faceter posting and then ran over to his site thinking "Well, he's on the computer, maybe he's posting new stuff"?

I did!

 

[Aoife]

Okay ladies, 'fess up; who saw a faceter posting and then ran over to his site thinking "Well, he's on the computer, maybe he's posting new stuff"?

I did!

So?

Was he?

 

[iLander]

Okay ladies, 'fess up; who saw a faceter posting and then ran over to his site thinking "Well, he's on the computer, maybe he's posting new stuff"?

I did!

So?

Was he?

No . . .

 

[Aoife]

I know, I looked, too.

 

[packrat]

I already checked this morning and then when I got on here and saw the reply ran and checked again.

I've started cheating and emailing someone from here who I adore and respect a lot in her knowledge to tell me what she thinks stones will look like..and I've gotten several stones from her as well haha! I've not returned any stones yet..even if they don't look exactly like the picture or whatever I've built up in my mind for them to look like, I've loved them anyway.

I've talked with most of the vendors mentioned here, and they've all been super nice to deal with. Sometimes I feel bad asking about things and then finding out that it's more expensive than I thought it would be so I don't go ahead with it, but if I don't ask, I don't know, right? Micheal E has been really helpful the last year or so, when I have questions about stones and settings etc, and I've spoken with Barry several times and Peter a few times asking about different things I've had in mind.

 

[minousbijoux]

ILander, I'm ashamed of you - as if the first thing you do when you go online in the morning isn't to check out all their websites?!!! If I could have a live feed to their websites I would!

 

[iLander]

ILander, I'm ashamed of you - as if the first thing you do when you go online in the morning isn't to check out all their websites?!!! If I could have a live feed to their websites I would!

Actually, I do "make the rounds" every day.

Hence my earlier rant; We Need More New Stuff More Often!

I once posted a thread about a stone that I was getting from Jerry Newman at Gemart, while I was working with another cutter and this second cutter emailed me and asked if I was done looking for the other stone. I was like "What?! Do you really think ONE stone is going to be enough for me?"

These guys have no idea about the length and breadth of our addiction, do they?

I'm glad I have a budget, or things would be pretty crowded (but sparkly!) around here.

 

[Arcadian]

Like ilander, I have a certain "round" I make daily. I don't consider that a BAD thing though.

I don't return a lot and not because I'd feel bad, but because I tend to like what I get! I try to evaluate online and ask lots of questions. As time goes on and I've gained more experience, I've gotten a lot pickier, though I still love stones that some would consider a bit funky colored

So when I say I don't mind paying the money for a good stone, I really do mean it. I keep track of what I'm looking at through a form I created so I know exactly what the price per ct ends up being. I tend to get granular about details the more stones I look at, especially if I'm looking what I would consider a lot of vendors.



I know I know, I'm such a nerd!! Some vendor sites don't get into the price/ct which is why I did this. The form does all the calcs I need in it and it does give me a real view which I think keeps my budget on track. I redid it in Adobe Livecycle. (I know, for shame huh...) I don't think I can upload the real thing because it may actually be helpful for some people, but thats at least a picture of what I do use.

-A

 

[T L]

ILander, I'm ashamed of you - as if the first thing you do when you go online in the morning isn't to check out all their websites?!!! If I could have a live feed to their websites I would!

Actually, I do "make the rounds" every day.

Hence my earlier rant; We Need More New Stuff More Often!

I once posted a thread about a stone that I was getting from Jerry Newman at Gemart, while I was working with another cutter and this second cutter emailed me and asked if I was done looking for the other stone. I was like "What?! Do you really think ONE stone is going to be enough for me?"

These guys have no idea about the length and breadth of our addiction, do they?

I'm glad I have a budget, or things would be pretty crowded (but sparkly!) around here.

Oh forget it, you'll never be quick enough. I think some people have apps on their cellphones that alert them to when a favorite web page is updated, and if you have quick fingers, you'll get a chance to get a good stone. The reason I shop a lot on ebay is because I gave up ever trying to get a nice gem from one of the lapidaries as their best material sells in two nanoseconds. Ebay has a much greater and wide variety for me, and not everyone is vying for the same identical stones.

 

[juliakaytaylor]

Hi iLander, fascinating thread!
Selling gems online directly to retail customers, like online dating, is a relatively recent phenomenon. Relative to the age of the gem and jewelry industry that is. It has always been standard practice to request a gem without any visual representation at all and when received, decide whether it will be kept or returned. This is still standard practice for most jewelers and designers as there is an understanding that a photo is, and will always be, simply a “general visual representation” of the actual gem. In a way, I think not even having a pre-visual can do more justice to the stones because they can be viewed without preconceived expectations and appreciated for their inherent beauty rather than for what they “are not” compared to a digital photograph. A lot of effort and sometimes expense goes into selection and procurement of gemstones if one has very specific desires and instead of paying a brokerage fee to their jeweler or stone broker for the required legwork, direct retail customers pay with their own time etc. Your experiences with this process are unquestionably familiar to many because this is simply the nature of gem shopping.
In viewing stones online it helped a lot when I adjusted my monitor brightness down but I still don't put much stock in the photos, drool worthy or not. Then again, I usually find something to love about every stone that comes my way and rarely send them back. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has that little rejected gemstone family living happily in the back of their safe!
Unless it is a matter of outright intentional fraud (rare in the custom gem circles), most small business owners are doing the best that they can with the equipment and time available to provide a fairly accurate representation of what they are selling. I think it's most important to keep track of your experiences and eventually you will find vendors that you work well with. As you develop these working relationships with the faceters or vendors, the photographs will become less important because you will both know what to expect from each other in general.
Good luck and happy hunting!

Arcadian- Beautiful form!! ...Wiping a little tear of appreciation from the corner of my eye...

 

[Arcadian]

Thank you Julia. That form really does keep me sane (and on track!) I encourage anyone to have such a form that they use, as it is probably one of the most useful (and sobering) things they can have in their arsenal because you're not just relying on how much you love a stone, but also by how much that love can cost.

-A

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has that little rejected gemstone family living happily in the back of their safe!

.

Wiping a little tear of laughter from my eye.....
Poor fellows !

 

[minousbijoux]

Arcadian: You are a kindred (analytical) spirit! I have a form I use too! I still have gems I've recently bought that have to be inputted, which is good, because, as you know, I'm trying to cool my jets, stop buying a gazillion little gems, and save for those more substantial ones. So I've said to myself that I really shouldn't buy any more until I get everything I already have recorded, which may take me a little while. [*okay, so I bought some tourms from Barry, a demantoid and some chryoberyls from ebay, but at least I'm good in theory... ]

 

[iLander]

NEW QUESTION

So, I was on Rick's site, Artcut Gems and I saw this;

http://www.artcutgems.com/item.php?item_id=451

I like the way he's taken 2 shots; one glamour shot, and one regular light shot. I think this is genius. I would know EXACTLY what I'm getting if I were to order this stone.

I'd like to see more of this type of photography (plus more new stones from Rick, he updates so infrequently, but that's neither here nor there) from our cutters.

What do you think? Pro and cons?

 

[minousbijoux]

Sorry for the delay in the response...I was at the post office - you can probably figure out what I was doing!

I think you are absolutely right - it embarrasses me, but there are gems I like until the vendor provides a "normal lighting" shot, and then I decline. I feel bad that I've asked them to take the extra pics, but on the other hand, better for me to turn it down upfront, then have it sent and then send it back...

If someone were to graph it, I bet it would like a parabola, with at the beginning of one's gem collecting, not a lot of gems returned, but over time as one gains more experience and/or gets more particular (i.e., not just looking for a spess, but a Namibian glowy spess), more gems returned, until it peaks and starts to decline as one gets used to certain vendors or knows exactly what to ask, and what to look for...

 

[iLander]

Sorry for the delay in the response...I was at the post office - you can probably figure out what I was doing!

I think you are absolutely right - it embarrasses me, but there are gems I like until the vendor provides a "normal lighting" shot, and then I decline. I feel bad that I've asked them to take the extra pics, but on the other hand, better for me to turn it down upfront, then have it sent and then send it back...

If someone were to graph it, I bet it would like a parabola, with at the beginning of one's gem collecting, not a lot of gems returned, but over time as one gains more experience and/or gets more particular (i.e., not just looking for a spess, but a Namibian glowy spess), more gems returned, until it peaks and starts to decline as one gets used to certain vendors or knows exactly what to ask, and what to look for...

I think you're right, our eyes get used to seeing these amazing stones on PS and it's hard to settle.

I've been taking a new approach; I just ask the vendor which of their stones do they think is remarkable? They have them in hand, they have tons of experience, they will tell you what makes them go WOW.

So far, Michael from Gemline Litnon has been very helpful and has talked me out of a few stones. He did point this one out, though, which I completely overlooked; http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=8631 Someone bought it, but after he pointed it out, I could see the fire in some of the other shots.

I've almost given up. I'm just going to rely on what the people, that actually have the stones in hand, tell me.

 

[minousbijoux]

That approach definitely makes sense, especially when they start to get what you as a client like.

 

[T L]

NEW QUESTION

So, I was on Rick's site, Artcut Gems and I saw this;

http://www.artcutgems.com/item.php?item_id=451

I like the way he's taken 2 shots; one glamour shot, and one regular light shot. I think this is genius. I would know EXACTLY what I'm getting if I were to order this stone.

I'd like to see more of this type of photography (plus more new stones from Rick, he updates so infrequently, but that's neither here nor there) from our cutters.

What do you think? Pro and cons?

Vendors take glamor shots to sell, and if they put up non-glamor shots, they might not sell as much. It's kind of the same reason they use beautiful models to sell clothes and cosmetics, would you buy them if they put them on Camilla Parker Bowles?

In any case, I think it's best to ask very informed questions, and if a vendor disappoints more than three times in a row, it's probably time to move on. Also one can tell if the vendor shot is way different from the stone IRL. If that's the case, then run, don't walk.

 

[lelser]

NEW QUESTION

So, I was on Rick's site, Artcut Gems and I saw this;

http://www.artcutgems.com/item.php?item_id=451

I like the way he's taken 2 shots; one glamour shot, and one regular light shot. I think this is genius. I would know EXACTLY what I'm getting if I were to order this stone.

I'd like to see more of this type of photography (plus more new stones from Rick, he updates so infrequently, but that's neither here nor there) from our cutters.

What do you think? Pro and cons?

Vendors take glamor shots to sell, and if they put up non-glamor shots, they might not sell as much. It's kind of the same reason they use beautiful models to sell clothes and cosmetics, would you buy them if they put them on Camilla Parker Bowles?

In any case, I think it's best to ask very informed questions, and if a vendor disappoints more than three times in a row, it's probably time to move on. Also one can tell if the vendor shot is way different from the stone IRL. If that's the case, then run, don't walk.

I explicitly DON'T take glamour shots. The shots are well lit, and the light is balanced, but the photo needs to reflect what I see in my hand. The last thing I want is to have stones come back because they aren't as nice as the picture. Now if you saw my husband's bird photography....those are some sexy photos! The gems are meant to be descriptive, not works of timeless art. When people want outdoor or hand shots we can do that, but you get a shot on my grubby, gemcutter fingers, which are about as sexy as that bit of dry skin at my elbows

Cheers,

Lisa
www.lisaelser.com

 

[faegrace]

Lisa; you're hilarious.

Your non-glamour shots are much appreciated. Cannot wait for the entirety of the new catalogue!

 

[Richard M.]

I explicitly DON'T take glamour shots. The shots are well lit, and the light is balanced, but the photo needs to reflect what I see in my hand. The last thing I want is to have stones come back because they aren't as nice as the picture.
www.lisaelser.com

Lisa, how do you define a "glamour shot?" I assume my clients will view stones in a variety of lighting environments and I try to show how stones will look "in the hand" in a variety of situations. I think Jeffrey Hunt shoots "glamour shots," many of which are very far removed from how a gem will appear without his dramatic theatrical lighting effects.

I believe all us vendors do our best to reflect what we see in the hand. No one likes returns, especially if there's some hint of photographic exaggeration.

Richard M.

 

[Indylady]

Ilander, I wondered too if Mastercutgems had a new drop, haha.

 

[T L]

I don't know what everyone else determines is a "glamour shot" but when fancy lighting is used with a stone against a very dark background, that is what I constitute a "glamour shot."

 

[T L]

I believe all us vendors do our best to reflect what we see in the hand. No one likes returns, especially if there's some hint of photographic exaggeration.

Richard M.

I respectfully disagree, some vendors do try to show the gem in a way better manner than it is IRL. That's why we have the "vendor photo" sticky at the top. It has actually made some vendors change their ways. You can't pull the wool over an informed PS'er.

 

[Barrett]

Glamour shot??? hehehe..sorry couldn't resist

I do like "glamour" shots and they could be compared to a magazine cover. You want to attract the eye and the curiosity of any potential customer. I like the fact that Rick does this and has a regular light photo as well. Makes perfect sense to me

 

[Michael_E]

You can't pull the wool over an informed PS'er.

Sure you can, (it happens daily from the looks of it), that's why they get so mad when pictures are obviously Photoshopped. The trick is to get good at Photoshop and use it so that it isn't obvious, (or at least use it so that the stones look like the picture when they are holding the stone in their hands).