Star Sapphire E-Ring

[NeonPeon]

I've been on the hunt for a unique engagement ring for some time now, and have been lurking around here a lot recently which has been of immense help, so thank you countless unknown posters.

My girlfriend is a bit of an eccentric with her jewelry, and has told me repeatedly, long before it was relevant to engagement, that she has no love for faceted gemstones, and certainly not diamonds, which she finds boring. Ignoring the various suspicious comments ("they all say that, but don't mean it") I eventually fell upon the idea of using a purplish star sapphire as the main stone. Crucially I saw a link to James Meyer's work on this site, which has a balance of ornament, organic allusion and old world elegance which is right up my lovely lady's street.

I've spoken to him several times now and he's been very helpful, but now my attention has turned to locating the stone itself. He has had some of his own suggestions, and I may be reviewing them, but living near LA I went to the jewelry district yesterday, and braved/rolled my eyes at some obnoxious hard sells and the like. It was invaluable to see so many star sapphires in such quick succession in person, and it cemented my belief that my girlfriend would love an E-ring with a star sapphire as the main stone.

Amongst the many stones I saw, only the stone whose picture is attached jumped out, but I really loved it (not mentioning the store lest it is thieved from me!). My budget is ~2,000 for the stone and the rest is going to Mr. Meyer to make me a lovely offset setting with an accompanying old mine diamond. The attached stone was quoted at ~2,300, which is obviously slightly out of my budget.

*Note, I stupidly didn't realize the watermark on this picture... I have requested the attachment be removed. Shall not post at 3am in future**


Further to this I have a few questions:

1) Is the price in the majority of LA Jewelery District shops negotiable? Is it normal practice to make a lower initial offer?
2) I know its very difficult without seeing it, and I'm paranoid about giving away too much info before I decide tomorrow to put it on hold, but does this price (2,300) seem in the right ballpark - it seems to based on other gems I've seen, the only thing that would seem to go against it is that it isn't as saturated as it could be (but I actually like some of the grainy auroral appearance).
3) A more general question: The one issue I'm really struggling with is figuring out my girlfriend's ring size. I've been watching her like a hawk in terms of her ring selections recently, but she rarely wears jewelry on her ring finger, and a lot of her jewelry has been passed down from her grandparents, so she's just put it on whatever finger fits, rather than it being fitted, so I'm not sure it is the best guide. Do you have any suggestions on slyly figuring out this measurement accurately? I do have her sister as my secret collaborator, so its possible she can figure it out, but as she lives on the east coast, it would delay things considerably. I'm getting quite excited and impatient at this point to propose, and want this detail resolved. Is it worth me taking the risk of guessing incorrectly here?

 

[NeonPeon]

Here is the stone in question...

 

[ma re]

I won''t be of much help here, but anyway...

The ring doesen''t have to fit perfectly. Finger size changes with weather, season of the year, general health etc. so it''s always best to get a ring that is a bit more comfortable (slightly larger size). Not to mention that she''ll need it larger once she gets pregnant

So I think it''s pretty safe to steal, I mean temporarily borrow, something you saw her wearing on (say) her middle finger, and get the ring about the same size. A table on THIS site might help in case you need to figure how to convert diameters or circumferences to ring sizes.

Another thing. Ask what is the height of the sapphire and make sure it''s neither too low nor too high. If it''s too low the star won''t move much (slide across the surface), and if it''s too deep it might be dificult to wear it (it''s easier to bang such stones against things as they "get in the way" easily). It''s worth considering.

Good luck!

 

[NeonPeon]

Thanks for the advice, and the link, I will do some measurements tomorrow.

Regarding the proportions, I got a chance to look at the stone, that''s my ugly hand you see there. The gem measures roughly 11*8.5*5.25 and seems nicely proportioned. I believe it should be well protected, and not too high as you say.

Regarding the pregnancy... are you trying to give me cold feet!? If I get an overly tight ring will it provide her extra incentive to wait a couple years?

 

[ma re]

Date: 6/17/2009 7:24:20 AM
Author: NeonPeon

Regarding the pregnancy... are you trying to give me cold feet!? If I get an overly tight ring will it provide her extra incentive to wait a couple years?

Well, I just thought it was worth mentioning

As for your last question...I guess there are enough ladies around here to offer some relevant opinions/experiences

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Is the star sapphire completely natural? Does it have a certificate? What is the carat weight?

To my eyes, it seems like a diffused star: it is too sharp and the body of the stone seems opaque.If it is diffused, then I believe it is way too expensive.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 6/17/2009 7:24:20 AM
Author: NeonPeon
Thanks for the advice, and the link, I will do some measurements tomorrow.

Regarding the proportions, I got a chance to look at the stone, that''s my ugly hand you see there. The gem measures roughly 11*8.5*5.25 and seems nicely proportioned. I believe it should be well protected, and not too high as you say.

Regarding the pregnancy... are you trying to give me cold feet!? If I get an overly tight ring will it provide her extra incentive to wait a couple years?

This made me laugh!

 

[Nomsdeplume]

I know this is random, but have you considered a trapiche sapphire? They are rare, but if you are looking for an interesting sapphire, that''s a good bet if you can find a good one.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I'm with lady disdain, it might just be the photo, but something seems a little off about the stone. Did the vendor say if it had undergone any treatments?

In terms of getting the rings size, any chance you can enlist a friend to help? Maybe one of her closer girlfriends who's recently engaged or just loves jewelery? It could be one of those "here, try this on. Wow, that doesn't fit at all! What size do you wear?" I wouldn't worry about it TOO much though unless the ring can't be resized.

Since we're on the topic of star sapphires, I'm totally in love with this star sapphire which is 1,200. I love the ethereal look of it, like it could just float away. It's 8.9x7.75. Sigh...if only I had the budget. Yummy.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 6/17/2009 8:19:20 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade
I''m with lady disdain, it might just be the photo, but something seems a little off about the stone. Did the vendor say if it had undergone any treatments?

In terms of getting the rings size, any chance you can enlist a friend to help? Maybe one of her closer girlfriends who''s recently engaged or just loves jewelery? It could be one of those ''here, try this on. Wow, that doesn''t fit at all! What size do you wear?'' I wouldn''t worry about it TOO much though unless the ring can''t be resized.

Since we''re on the topic of star sapphires, I''m totally in love with this star sapphire which is 1,200. I love the ethereal look of it, like it could just float away.

Ethereal is right! That is just beautiful.

 

[PinkTower]

That star is stunningly white and crisp.
Can you get a lab report that says the treatment is ''heat only''?
I have a black star sapphire, 7.8 carats on the way. If it arrives before you resolve this, I will post a photo, as the stone is heat only. The star on mine is much more subtle. Although most people would not be drawn to the stone I purchased while on a walk through a jewelry district, if you read through this forum about treatments, you will understand why you would not want a diffused stone for an engagement ring.
Also, the price you are going to pay seems steep to me unless the stone has a lab report.
I hope Ruby Charm sees your post. She has a gorgeous engagement ring with a star and can speak firsthand about how they actually look ...from nature.

 

[chrono]

The star sapphire looks opaque (which is fine if you like it) and the star is very sharp with straight legs (which is what everyone aims for). For the amount of money they are asking for, I’d want the stone to be certified to be sure it isn’t a synthetic or diffused or has undergone some other unscrupulous treatment. It never hurts to negotiate.

Mr. Meyer has impeccable taste and if you are not feeling confident or don’t want to mess with verifying the stone, I’d play it safe and wait to see what he comes up with.

As for ring sizes, it is better to be a little large than too snug to wear. You can always have a local jeweler resize it a little. Don’t worry about the pregnancy thing – most women remove their rings because the swelling gets too bad towards the end. After pregnancy, most ladies’ finger sizes go back down to the original size with a few exceptions. Again, the ring can always be resized larger. I don’t expect too much size fluctuation, maybe half a size only.

 

[ma re]

I agree about a cert - there should be one accompanying a stone of that price range. And about resizing; make sure the ring can be resized, as some styles can''t be. In such cases the whole ring (or a large part of it) has to be remade. But resizing should also be avoided unless absolutely necessary, since it can (if done by a lousy jeweller) impact the durability of the ring.

 

[soberguy]

Yes, get it certified. Makings photo is, in my mind''s eye, what I think a star sapphire should look like. The Rutile should not make the gem a solid mass. You should be able to see a glow as in a fine cabochon. Just my 1 cent.. lol!

 

[innerkitten]

I like star sapphires but don''t know a lot about them. Someone from this forum just got a beautiful star ruby ring. Look it up, it''ll wow you for sure.I am also a huge James Meyer fan. I have a ring by him and he is very skilled.

Looking at the stone you''ve posted though, I''m wondering if you might want to look for one that is a little less opaque for comparison. If you don''t know who to contact you could try some of the vendors we have used here.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 6/17/2009 9:24:49 AM
Author: Chrono

The star sapphire looks opaque (which is fine if you like it) and the star is very sharp with straight legs (which is what everyone aims for). For the amount of money they are asking for, I’d want the stone to be certified to be sure it isn’t a synthetic or diffused or has undergone some other unscrupulous treatment. It never hurts to negotiate.

Mr. Meyer has impeccable taste and if you are not feeling confident or don’t want to mess with verifying the stone, I’d play it safe and wait to see what he comes up with.

As for ring sizes, it is better to be a little large than too snug to wear. You can always have a local jeweler resize it a little. Don’t worry about the pregnancy thing – most women remove their rings because the swelling gets too bad towards the end. After pregnancy, most ladies’ finger sizes go back down to the original size with a few exceptions. Again, the ring can always be resized larger. I don’t expect too much size fluctuation, maybe half a size only.

I totally agree. When shopping for a star sapphire, keep in mind that star gemstones that look too perfect (i.e., intense/attractive body color, sharp prominent star with 6 perfectly straight legs, great clarity, etc.) are most likely synthetic or natural but enhanced in some way (e.g., diffused star). Diffused star effects tend to be super white & sharp and have 6 fairly straight legs. Just to give you an idea, check this out:

Ebay Star Sapphire

In general, natural untreated star sapphires with a sharp/strong asterism don't have a perfect star (not all 6 legs are equally prominent or equally straight). Also, in my experience, natural star effects look more silvery-white than crispy white (however, I've only seen blue star sapphires and star rubies, so I don't know how the asterism looks on a different body color). The only way of finding out whether this particular star sapphire is in fact natural & untreated is to send it to one of the major labs (e.g., AGTA) for verification. Otherwise, you should try to purchase it from a reputable dealer. I'd personally recommend The Natural Sapphire Company. Here's the link to their "Star Sapphires" webpage:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Star/

Also, in case you would like to get a good idea of what a strong natural asterism looks like (according to The NSC, not me; I'm no expert), take a look at my star ruby e-ring:

Star Ruby E-Ring

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 6/17/2009 8:19:20 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade
I''m with lady disdain, it might just be the photo, but something seems a little off about the stone. Did the vendor say if it had undergone any treatments?


In terms of getting the rings size, any chance you can enlist a friend to help? Maybe one of her closer girlfriends who''s recently engaged or just loves jewelery? It could be one of those ''here, try this on. Wow, that doesn''t fit at all! What size do you wear?'' I wouldn''t worry about it TOO much though unless the ring can''t be resized.


Since we''re on the topic of star sapphires, I''m totally in love with this star sapphire which is 1,200. I love the ethereal look of it, like it could just float away. It''s 8.9x7.75. Sigh...if only I had the budget. Yummy.

WOW! Yeah, that looks very yummy!

 

[RubyCharm]

Also, I don''t know what your overall budget is, but I would encourage you to take a look at the following ring:

NSC Star Sapphire Ring

I looked at that particular star sapphire in person (when I first began doing my research on natural star sapphires and rubies), and the color is a beautiful purplish blue. The star effect is quite amazing. This particular gem comes with AGTA certification, which is a BIG PLUS. You could purchase the entire ring or the star sapphire by itself. You could also ask The NSC to set the stone in a different mounting (they have a lot of mountings for you to choose from, depending on your budget). By, the way, The NSC sometimes offers good discounts on your purchase (it depends on whether they''re running any specials, so it wouldn''t hurt to inquire about it).

 

[RubyCharm]

OK, so I found a nice picture that Livia at The NSC emailed me, before shipping that ring to me together with other star gems, so that I could inspect them in person.

(The ring is on Livia''s hand).

 

[NeonPeon]

I have looked extensively at the Natural Sapphire Company, but can't go there physically to check it out. My girlfriend's sister will be going on a little mission for me to see if there is anything really inspiring there. I'm definitely committed to using Meyer's setting, and he did say this morning that he thought the stone looked fine.

I am well aware of, and want to avoid infused gems. Now that I've put it on hold, the gem is from IntaGems in LA, who appear to be reputable from my research thus far. They will certify the gem, and I will have it appraised. It is refundable if not as stated. The specs on the gem are as follows, and indicate it is untreated:

Type: Star Sapphire
Shape: Cabachon
Quality: A
Measurements: 10.90*8.30*5.30
Carat Weight: 5.00
Color: Pk Purp
Tone: Md Lgt
Saturation: Medium
Country: Ceylon
Clarity: SI
Treatment: None
Report: None

Assuming that the gem is untreated and natural, as it has been presented, what are your thoughts? I was hoping I'd get a raft of comments commenting on how lovely it was which would give me the confidence of my judgment, but I do appreciate all your concerns.

Also, the stone is pictured under very bright store lights here, the star isn't quite so piercing under natural light. In fact, here is their picture of it.

 

[NeonPeon]

Here is the stone in a more natural light without a store high beam on it.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think that's a much better pic Heh, I'm assuming you know that your girl likes purple?

Sigh, all this talk about star sapphires make me want one...

 

[NeonPeon]

Purple is her favourite colour, and thanks to her nagging patient instruction, our bedroom is a muted smoky purple.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 6/17/2009 3:05:27 PM
Author: NeonPeon
I have looked extensively at the Natural Sapphire Company, but can't go there physically to check it out. My girlfriend's sister will be going on a little mission for me to see if there is anything really inspiring there. I'm definitely committed to using Meyer's setting, and he did say this morning that he thought the stone looked fine.


I am well aware of, and want to avoid infused gems. Now that I've put it on hold, the gem is from IntaGems in LA, who appear to be reputable from my research thus far. They will certify the gem, and I will have it appraised. It is refundable if not as stated. The specs on the gem are as follows, and indicate it is untreated:


Type: Star Sapphire

Shape: Cabachon

Quality: A

Measurements: 10.90*8.30*5.30

Carat Weight: 5.00

Color: Pk Purp

Tone: Md Lgt

Saturation: Medium

Country: Ceylon

Clarity: SI

Treatment: None

Report: None


Assuming that the gem is untreated and natural, as it has been presented, what are your thoughts? I was hoping I'd get a raft of comments commenting on how lovely it was which would give me the confidence of my judgment, but I do appreciate all your concerns.


Also, the stone is pictured under very bright store lights here, the star isn't quite so piercing under natural light. In fact, here is their picture of it.

If you already decided that you'll purchase that particular stone, then I don't think you really need to hear other people's thoughts. If you think that's the perfect stone, then go for it. Even though I love star gemstones, I wouldn't like that particular stone for my e-ring (even if it is confirmed natural and unheated), because it looks very opaque. But, that's just my humble opinion (since you asked for it).

ETA: However, some people are into more opaque cabochons, and that's their preference, so that's not a problem at all. I'm into more transparent ones (when it comes to sapphire or ruby cabs). It all depends on your personal preference.

 

[PinkTower]

I like pinkish purple, and today I am wearing my almost fuschia colored sapphire as my engagement ring.
However, I would not want to wear a stone of that color every day. Purple does not go well with everything in a wardrobe.
I think a red or blue star engagement ring would be suitable to wear everyday.

If you want opinions, that stone is not my favorite at that price. There are some people on this forum that can really help you with finding a fine stone if you want any help.

If you love the stone, and know she would love it, and the lab report checks out, that is all that matters.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I don''t think the price is way off, but neither do I think it''s a deal (at least, that''s what I''m deriving based on comparison to prices from NSC and other vendors)
Since your budget is 2k, and you seem to really like this stone, why not ask if the vendor will sell it for 2k?

 

[NeonPeon]

Author: RubyCharm

If you already decided that you''ll purchase that particular stone, then I don''t think you really need to hear other people''s thoughts. If you think that''s the perfect stone, then go for it. Even though I love star gemstones, I wouldn''t like that particular stone for my e-ring (even if it is confirmed natural and unheated), because it looks very opaque. But, that''s just my humble opinion (since you asked for it).


ETA: However, some people are into more opaque cabochons, and that''s their preference, so that''s not a problem at all. I''m into more transparent ones (when it comes to sapphire or ruby cabs). It all depends on your personal preference.

Your humble opinion is much appreciated. I think perhaps I am attracted to gems that are more opaque, and I like visible beautiful strands. Personal preference aside, would it seem a fair price? Looking through the NSC''s stocks, which I have been doing repeatedly, has revealed many beautiful stones, however not really any in my price range, at that size, in a similar colour. It hasn''t been that easy for me finding purple star stones in general.

I think I am resolved to get this stone, unless I see something similarly striking in the near future. I can only hope my girlfriend feels the same. See, if this forum doesn''t convince, me I''ll have to convince myself.

 

[NeonPeon]

Date: 6/17/2009 4:09:22 PM
Author: Pink Tower

If you want opinions, that stone is not my favorite at that price. There are some people on this forum that can really help you with finding a fine stone if you want any help.

Any suggestions of places to look would be most welcome. The NSC is one of the places I looked at first. Searching there for a decently large 4+ carat star sapphire around or under 2k mostly reveals very light coloured/white stones, or stones with obvious inclusions. Many are quite lovely, but not with any blue or purple colour that I''m looking for.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 6/17/2009 4:15:09 PM
Author: NeonPeon

Author: RubyCharm


If you already decided that you'll purchase that particular stone, then I don't think you really need to hear other people's thoughts. If you think that's the perfect stone, then go for it. Even though I love star gemstones, I wouldn't like that particular stone for my e-ring (even if it is confirmed natural and unheated), because it looks very opaque. But, that's just my humble opinion (since you asked for it).



ETA: However, some people are into more opaque cabochons, and that's their preference, so that's not a problem at all. I'm into more transparent ones (when it comes to sapphire or ruby cabs). It all depends on your personal preference.

Your humble opinion is much appreciated. I think perhaps I am attracted to gems that are more opaque, and I like visible beautiful strands. Personal preference aside, would it seem a fair price? Looking through the NSC's stocks, which I have been doing repeatedly, has revealed many beautiful stones, however not really any in my price range, at that size, in a similar colour. It hasn't been that easy for me finding purple star stones in general.


I think I am resolved to get this stone, unless I see something similarly striking in the near future. I can only hope my girlfriend feels the same. See, if this forum doesn't convince, me I'll have to convince myself.

It seems like a fair price (maybe a little bit overpriced, since it's so included), as long as the star is not diffused. If the star is diffused (even if the stone is natural), then NO WAY. You can find similar stones with diffused stars for less than $100 (heck, even less than $10 on Ebay!). In general, star sapphires are worth more than sapphire cabs, because of the star effect. If the star effect is fake, then all you have is a cab. And, if that cab is very included, then it shouldn't be that expensive. I personally don't like silk strands because I feel that they detract from the beauty of the star effect. Without the strands, the star effect is emphasized, IMO. I know you're more attracted to gems that are more opaque, but are you sure that's also your gf's preference? The reason I ask is that my FI's preferences are different than mine, but we got a stone that would fit my preferences and not his (since I was the one who was going to be wearing the ring). Also, I don't know about your gf, but I think a lot of women (especially those with small fingers, such as myself) would find a stone of that size to be a little bit uncomfortable for daily wear. However, I'm telling you this from the perspective of someone whose ring size is 4.25.

Anyway, if you are resolved to get that stone, I'm sure it will make a very unique e-ring, which is what you ultimately want. Otherwise, I'm sure there are other great alternatives (that a lot of people here could help you find), as long as you're more flexible color-wise and size-wise.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 6/17/2009 3:12:26 PM
Author: NeonPeon
Here is the stone in a more natural light without a store high beam on it.

Two more questions,

1) Was this picture taken with or without flash?

2) Were you able to see the star affect this sharply even without exposing the stone to a direct light source?