Show Me Your Learner Stones!!!!

[FrekeChild]

If you can believe it, the second set of small red spinels is a completely different set from the first set....

These still aren't all of them.

 

[Snowyrin]

Omg Freke, That's A LOT of learning stones and super beautiful too! I'm a pretty inexperience beginner, why not ship some over for me to learn???

 

[chrono]

I tried to have as few learner stones as possible so I started off with precision cuts, and then moved on to mid-quality to good non-precision cut stones. I also started with small stones, then small stones with very good colour, then bigger stones with very good colour. My learner stones were all under $100 each, then slowly increased my budget for these stones because there are only so many nicely coloured stones in that price range.

I started off solely with Dan Stair. It seemed a safe bet since they are small, well cut, inexpensive and not too shabbily coloured. Shipping and returns were risk free because he is US based. He was relatively unknown to PS when I purchased these so there wasn't a big "fight" to get what I was interested in. I've sold a few DS learner stones and may sell these in the future.

 

[chrono]

Here's where I branched to non-precision cut stones in an attempt to get better colour and larger sized stones. These were also under the $200 mark but I doubt I can get these prices anymore.

 

[chrono]

I then moved up to ACS, where the cutting is more consistent and better. Pricing was the highest for me at that point in time. ACS was owned by Barbara Smigel then and the selection of gems were more varied than today. Colour was above average, not the best but not too bad either. She often ran monthly specials so I bought at that time to get better pricing @ 20% to 30% off. These were also under $200 way back then.

 

[chrono]

These started to get more expensive. The blue spinel and tourmaline were still inexpensive (under $300) but the red spinels was expensive for me then, even though heavily discounted. I broke through the $1k mark for the first time. I took the risk and they turned out beautifully. These were all before Barry took over ACS. I purchased a better quality pair of red spinels shortly after. Since these spinels weren't that great, I set them as earrings.

 

[chrono]

Not exactly a learner stone but I purchased it because I needed a red stone, it was a good price AND more importantly, it had to fit an existing setting. This one is from AJS when their pictures were more accurate, they provided additional pictures and had a US office where I could return stones instead of shipping to Thailand.

The second one is my first cobalt blue spinel. Yes, I overpaid for this one. It's a gorgeous blue and precision cut but I still think I overpaid. At least AGL deemed it a cobalt blue spinel so I didn't do too badly for this one. It has a large table and low crown which I'm not crazy about but I couldn't be too choosy since this colour is uncommon.

The last pair are blue spinels I considered but returned. Nice looking but one was windowed and the other had too much extinction for me. Price was also high for the colour (had some green modifier) so I felt it wasn't a good purchase.

 

[chrono]

These are learners in a different sense; they were new gem types to me and I like them enough to keep but not set. I may or may not sell them in the future. The green garnet was advertised as tsavorite but I negotiated pricing because I thought the colour was too light to be classified as one. Bought the pink spinels from Tan for under $150. From looking at the moonstone, I decided I prefer them cabbed rather than faceted.

 

[chrono]

These are sort of learners but not quite learners.

This was my first emerald; loved the colour and everything but after a few days, decided the colour was too light so I returned it.

The second is a 5 ct Vietnamese red spinel. Not red enough to me but still a beautiful pink spinel. Price seemed high and although precision cut, I didn't like the half/half effect so it was returned.

I got super cheap on these. These are my eBay sphenes. Relatively safe to purchase and I knew the vendor amped up the colouration so I was mentally prepared to receive nice but not great sphenes. Had the larger one tweaked by Jerry and it looks so much nicer, nice enough that I plan to set these later in the year. The total price of all the 3 sphenes added up was well under $150.

 

[chrono]

Lessons learned?
1. Colour is my highest priority.
2. Although I like big stones, I am willing to accept a smaller stone if the colour is great.
3. I don't like to see inclusions in my ring stones. Borderline eye clean is acceptable if the colour is great.
4. I don't mind included stones as pendants as long as the colour is great.
5. I don't mind well cut non-precision cut stones. Precision cut is an added bonus and preferred given the choice (#1 still comes first).
6. I like round and square cushions. I will only consider pears if the tip isn't too dark, ovals and rectangular cushions if there is no bow-tie. A trilliant has to have exceptional colour for me to consider it. Yes, it's unfair and irrational. Absolutely no marquises and hearts. That said, who knows if the right stone comes along and I have to eat my words.
7. Step cuts are very unkind to coloured stones. They need lots of facets to enhance the saturation and look lively. JMO.
8. There are concave cut stones and there are concave cut stones. They are not cut to the same level of skill. I like one or two well cut ones but my preference is definitely traditional flat faceting for those big bold flashes.
9. I am picky about colour. Initially, it was just blue and reds since I started out with spinels. Later I learned to see modifiers and became pickier with all colours. I like certain modifers and dislike certain modifiers.
Green - I like some blue but dislike yellow
Red - I prefer some blue but dislike orange
Blue - I don't like gray or green, I don't mind a bit of purple or lavender
Pink - no orange please, a bit of blue is great
Orange - no brown, but I don't mind a touch of yellow as long as it isn't ochre.
Yellow - for some reason, pure yellow never appealed to me.

 

[katharath]

Ahhhh Chrono, your blue spinels (even the "learner" ones) always make me happy - I LOVE your Barry blue and also your little Dan Stair blue spinel! I am always looking for spinels just like these...I have yet to find one, but I'm hopeful that it will eventually happen. (I do have a Barry blue, but it's darker than yours - I'm looking for that elusive blue spinel color that seems hard to find. Or at least hard to find in my price range, lol).

Anyway, I very much enjoyed your posts in this thread . Beautiful gems and lots of interesting info.

 

[LoversKites]

Chrono, that red Burmese spinel pair is really, really beautiful in my eyes. Why do you say they are not that great? I never knew prices have risen so high. Actually, it's harder for me to believe that a 1.4ct red spinel sold for 600 dollars.

Freke... oh my gawd that's a lot of stones. I hope my collection will one day be as extensive as yours!

 

[chrono]

EBay is not for the faint of heart. You have to know what you are doing. Some of the below applies to all purchases, regardless of vendor.

1. Photoshopping and picture theft is rampant on eBay. If it looks too good to be true, it often is.
2. I like pictures on a neutral background, preferably a hand shot or video. I understand that gem photography is a challenge for all vendors but some make the gems out to be much nicer than they really are. There are tips and clues to detect suspected picture manipulation and cut issues.
3. Check the return and refund policy to make sure there is no restocking fee, returns are allowed, full refund, etc.
4. I dislike returns to Thailand and etc so I make sure there is a US based office unless the gem is so inexpensive that it is better to keep it than spend more on shipping. Some US based vendors will not ship overseas so if a shopper isn't in the US, you need to ask this question upfront.
5. Some vendors will give you a discount if you ask. Some never budge but you'll never know unless you ask.
6. Some gem types are safe to purchase without lab reports, some aren't (synthetic, simulants and treatments).

 

[chrono]

Chrono, that red Burmese spinel pair is really, really beautiful in my eyes. Why do you say they are not that great?

They look great until you've trained your eyes to see modifiers. I have another pair of red spinels from ACS that put these to shame. I set the better ones as side stones to my AVC diamond. As I said earlier, I am very picky when it comes to red stones and you are correct that most people would see these as straight red and be over the moon with them.

 

[FrekeChild]

I've actually sold off most of these small stones over the years, so I really don't have much of anything left. I originally bought many of them to make a ton of stackers, but that didn't end up happening.

I think the most important thing that I learned is that I don't like the trade ideals in most stones. Lighter tsavorites, gray-blue-lavender spinels, yellow-orange spessartites, straight hot pink Mahenge spinels, etc. which is great for my budget.

 

[deskjockey]

I'm a newb, so probably shouldn't have made my e-ring the "learner" one, haha. Here's what I have so far:

My Montana Sapphire:

I love this thing. It's a little grey, and loses a lot of the green in the work flourescent lighting, but goes green-green under LEDs which is neat

My first "real" garnet (as opposed to the cheapy brown/muddy ones I'd gotten in cheap jewelry my whole life):


It just came back from Daniel M in a little silver u-prong ring. Love it, though I didn't realize how much I use my right hand till I was trying not to bang it on everything.

My little christmas demantoid:


(with a flash. It's not superduper saturated but is a lovely sparkly light green in person!)

I really want a spessartite but not liking most of what I'm finding in my price range, so will have to wait to get one! In general I like unusual/imperfect things, I know I love the grey in my sapphire (though I still really want one of those lovely, velvety, royal blue ones someday). The rhodolite is almost obnoxious in how it doesn't photograph well. From one point of reference you don't see all the sparkle (whereas looking at it with both eyes, you see more flash coming from the different directions and it's pretty amazing)

I expect in twenty years I might look at these three and think "oh, how cute!" while looking at my ruby and emerald collection, haha. I'm not sure I should consider the sapphire a learner stone, exactly, given the cost and such. But the garnets were pretty inexpensive (though my view could be skewed since I only started after finding this place and looking at so many more expensive stones). The demantoid in particular is one where I'll probably want a nicer one someday I do think I'm more interested in cut than in specific color/saturation.

 

[minousbijoux]

Its amazing reading this thread how much faster the majority of you learned than I did. Someone once asked my advice and I responded with what I had learned and provided advice to them and I unwittingly alienated them (never meant to be patronizing; just was trying to spell out all the stupid mistakes I had made)!

I did not start out with precision cut. I (sorta) trusted all ebay vendors and learned the hard way. I had no experience reading stones from photographs. I had no experience setting stones (except for the ones I set in jewelry making classes, which was just to learn to set stones, nothing to do with what was aesthetically pleasing). I did not pay attention (much) to hardness, shape, calibration, but just went for what caught my fancy.

I don't have the best memory, so I'm sure I've forgotten many of my learners, but I would say that despite my naivete and mistakes, I still ended up with some pretty ones. I gave away most of my learner stones and sold a few as a set to another PSer for their niece to learn from (I hope she did). I also gave a few of the ones I loved to PS friends - or friends of friends - when I had something for sale and they bought from me (kinda like the way Dana so kindly does it). Those were a bit harder to part with, but the fact of the matter, they just sit; better for them to help the next person down the line.

I've learned:

- Tastes evolve;

- Buy what you like, not what others think;

- AGL is better than GIA these days, but things can - and often do - change;

- Think twice if buying for investment;

- If buying as an investment, think twice about making it into a piece of jewelry unless you are okay with it being damaged;

- Learn from being duped - that is, think of it as paying your dues (we all have);

- Question when folks talk about consistently getting things at great discounts from vendors as there's usually a reason behind it or its an exageration - its not that you're a bad negotiator

- Trust but verify;

- Know that reading photos of stones is a completely different skill set than knowing stones;

- Know that designing aesthetically pleasing settings/jewelry is a completely different skill set (and one for which I've learned to rely on one or two PSers who's opinions and design sensibility I love and trust);

- If you love it, and you have been looking for a long time, buy it unless the price is absolutely ridiculous - they just don't come along that often unless you're looking for a peridot, amethyst, zircon, or a few others.

I'll try and add some pics of the few learners I have around - if they'll cooperate!

 

[Starzin]

Freke - thank you sooo much for starting this thread! Brilliant idea. Thank you also for sharing your wonderful stash.

Snowyrin - great star sapphire!

Chrono - a terrific walk through your education/growing process, thank you! Now. Could you and TL team up for a thread on secondaries please?

Minou - another great list.

Keep 'em coming - all wonderful stuff and interesting to hear how you all decided why or how you came to know you liked this or didn't like that.

 

[mochiko42]

A little late to the party but as a beginner, I just wanted to add how much I appreciated this thread. Thanks!

 

[minousbijoux]

A little late to the party but as a beginner, I just wanted to add how much I appreciated this thread. Thanks!

You have a few to add too, don't you Mochiko? I gotta say the learner stones I'm seeing here are far better than my learners.

 

[blingbunny10]

Geez, I'm too embarrassed to post mine.... You guys have got some great learner stones!!!

And Chrono, if you're ever looking to sell that .86ct blue spinel, please let me know! I've been looking for a blue spinel for months and months.

 

[mochiko42]

I started off solely with Dan Stair. It seemed a safe bet since they are small, well cut, inexpensive and not too shabbily coloured. Shipping and returns were risk free because he is US based. He was relatively unknown to PS when I purchased these so there wasn't a big "fight" to get what I was interested in. I've sold a few DS learner stones and may sell these in the future.

Oooh, if you ever sell that blue spinel and green tourm in the future, can I volunteer? (Haha secretly I'm going "mememememe!!!" inside). They are lovely.

 

[mochiko42]

A little late to the party but as a beginner, I just wanted to add how much I appreciated this thread. Thanks!

You have a few to add too, don't you Mochiko? I gotta say the learner stones I'm seeing here are far better than my learners.

I'm a little embarrassed to add them here because I'm at such a baby stage in terms of learning about gem stones

If you discount some diamond jewelry that I was given as gifts, and some cheap rings and other items that I bought from souvenir shops whilst on holiday (cheap garnet ring from a new age shop in Bali, freshwater pearl earrings for 20 euros in Greece, a Byzantine amethyst bead and pearl necklace replica from the Met in New York, etc..), the following CS are the first actual gemstones that I've bought with serious consideration for the quality of the gem (all other jewelry I've previously had were more for the overall design and look of the pieces).

#1: 0.93 ct color shift Ceylon sapphire.

The very first gemstone that I chose myself. I bought this from Sally at Heart of Water in Thailand, who also made my e-ring. The supplier said it was heated but there are visible inclusions, which suggest that it may be untreated. I have a sneaking suspicion that I may have paid a premium for the gemstone since Sally went on a special trip to Bangkok to source it for me. It has beautiful color both indoors and outdoors, and I've grown very attached to it for sentimental reasons, but I think that for any other ring settings, I wouldn't be that tolerant of gems that have visible inclusions.


#2. Pink Namya spinel (1.5 ct), Green tourm (3.11 ct), Citrine (5.34 ct) from Litnon/Gemline
Let me link to my other post with photos, so as to avoid being overly spammy
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/settings-for-pink-spinel-green-tourmaline-citrine-help.197608/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/settings-for-pink-spinel-green-tourmaline-citrine-help.197608/[/URL]



Here are the few things I've learned over the past 6 months since I've started developing a serious appreciation for gemstones. Apart from the biggie (my sapphire e-ring), I am still taking baby steps (only buying stones under US$200 and from PS-recommended vendors)

1. Stones usually look very different in real life compared to Internet / vendor photos.
I've found out how difficult it is to photo CS and appreciate the challenge it presents to vendors. Also, sometimes I found that my Samsung Galaxy camera phone takes more accurate photos than my fancier Canon camera. I realize I am really terrible at spotting flaws in gem stones from photos only (i.e I have tried and tried to spot windows, bow ties etc in photos of flawed gems on PS but I can't really see them unless they are as big as elephants and as obvious! I can usually spot inclusions and blemishes though from photo-only. However I seem to be able to spot flaws much more easily when I see the gem in person.

2. B&M and "Designer" stores don't always have the best selection of CS.
In HK where I live, gem stones are plentiful but very poorly cut, and very expensive/poor value for what you get. If you want to buy CS, you will find ruby, sapphire and emerald at the major jewelry chain stores, but at crazy prices and for stones that have poor cut and tone (it seems very dark, almost black rubies and sapphires are popular here for whatever reason, whereas I prefer rich but not black color tone). There are also some new-age-type shops that sell CS and other crystals, mostly as rough or beads, but also have faceted gems and cabs. These are slightly cheaper than the other B&M shops in HK, but are also very poorly cut (usually the gems there have ginormous windows and very low color saturation..). Overall, not a good value for your money, IMO. (and is it just me or are some of the faceted CS cocktail rings & other jewelry at Tiffany's & Co use very poorly cut stones. Eg. I saw this citrine ring the other day at the local branch of T&Co and it had a huge window, had a brownish mask, and was very "dead'-looking..... haha, anywaaaay..moving on..


3. My personal preferences/lessons learned re: CS are still evolving but I'm starting to learn what I prefer:
- for rings, I prefer eye-clean but can tolerate very minor inclusions if they don't detract from the beauty of the stone and preferably can be hidden by the setting. I can tolerate poor cutting up to a point, if the color, clarity and overall beauty of the gem outweighs the negative.
- I like sparkly things hence I have developed a fondness for Portuguese cuts and other shapes that really help the gems sparkle and seem more brilliant. While I like the color of quartz such as the citrine above, its lack of true sparkle means that it doesn't make my heart flutter. lol
- I like symmetrical shapes (round, square cushion, asscher, etc); I'm not a fan of trillion, pear, heart or other shapes. I wasn't a big fan of ovals but am warming up to them.
- I prefer stones that are perhaps a shade lighter than the market ideal. (Great for me because they are a bit cheaper too!)
- I love moonstone but don't like opal. Moonstone somehow has a soft warm fuzzy glow that I don't get with opal, but that's just a personal preference .
- I've become very picky about gemstones very quickly. Six months ago I would be like "oooh that's pretty" and be perfectly satisfied with it, whereas now I would be a lot more critical. Also before I was happy to purchase finished jewelry but now I prefer to buy the gemstones separately first. (Exceptions being lower-budget jewelry pieces or gifts for friends.)
- I realize now how much I still have to learn when it comes to evaluating gemstones!

4. Keeping it in perspective.
- Set a budget on how much you're willing to spend (per month/year/whatever period). It's so easy to buy stuff online with a click, it makes it almost impossible to resist it when you see a really, really pretty gem that you absolutely must have. I would say this especially if you are purchasing from a vendor not in your home country, it's really easy to "forget" the exchange rate and how much your purchase actually costs (I found this out when buying in US$ then when checking my local bank account in HK$ it was quite a shock! I knew how much it was in US$ but didn't really do the conversion in my head at the time of purchase...)
- If you don't get a particular gem because you can't afford it or someone else snatched it up, it's not the end of the world. I am by nature a very IMpatient person so I am learning how to do proper research and cultivate the fine art of waiting but also knowing when the time is right.
- At the end of the day, remember it's just a hobby and to keep it in perspective. (my FI made me write that last sentence )

 

[moosemunch]

I love this thread! As a beginner, it is so helpful to read what everyone has learned. So many of these "learner stones" look gorgeous to me too.

 

[mochiko42]

This is my starter stone and ring. Fortunately it isn't faceted so I don't have to look out for windows and etc, rather I focus on treatments possibly done to it. This light blue star sapphire btw is untreated.





Then I went a little more adventurous and started looking online for faceted sapphires hoping to find something 100% natural as well. And I came back with this, a mild pink orange unheated sapphire. I had a whole range of flower shots on it but this is the most accurate and my favourite shot.



When I'm new and searching I'm too afraid of mistakes and started off with precision cuts.

Gorgeous stones!! and that pink/orange sapphire ring is beautiful.. is that rose gold?

 

[Snowyrin]

This is my starter stone and ring. Fortunately it isn't faceted so I don't have to look out for windows and etc, rather I focus on treatments possibly done to it. This light blue star sapphire btw is untreated.





Then I went a little more adventurous and started looking online for faceted sapphires hoping to find something 100% natural as well. And I came back with this, a mild pink orange unheated sapphire. I had a whole range of flower shots on it but this is the most accurate and my favourite shot.



When I'm new and searching I'm too afraid of mistakes and started off with precision cuts.

Gorgeous stones!! and that pink/orange sapphire ring is beautiful.. is that rose gold?

Thank you. Yeah! It's in rose gold. So proud to own it cos it's also my first hand forged ring. Love it to no end

 

[happybear]

Thank you. Yeah! It's in rose gold. So proud to own it cos it's also my first hand forged ring. Love it to no end

Hi Snowyrin,

May I know where did you purchased the hand forged ring? Understand you're in Singapore. I am as well, and would like to find a good (yet affordable) jeweler.

TIA

 

[Snowyrin]

Thank you. Yeah! It's in rose gold. So proud to own it cos it's also my first hand forged ring. Love it to no end

Hi Snowyrin,

May I know where did you purchased the hand forged ring? Understand you're in Singapore. I am as well, and would like to find a good (yet affordable) jeweler.

TIA

Glad that there's another PSer near me! I'm more than happy to share. Actually I purchased the stone online from a reputable PS listed vendor and got the ring hand forged by my BF friend's father who is a Hong Kong setter that lives in SG. But he only does some parts of the ring and he would have to pass to his friend to set in the diamonds, meaning I might have to pay twice in future. Then I started looking for a suitable and resonably priced setter in Far East Plaza, and am glad that I've found my current one whom I set most of my recent rings (including egg yolk) with.

Just to share, this is egg yolk's latest flower shot




Hand forged jewlery is not at all common in Singapore, therefore the huge price difference compared to mass produced jewellery. But for a style that suits your stone and personality I find it really worth it! FYI, they usually charge by the weight of the gold used, workmanship(depends on the complexity of the piece) and the diamonds they sourced for example a halo or sides if there's any.

Let me know if you are interested to know more, I'll disclose the exact location of the store.

Hope this helps in your search!

 

[happybear]

Glad that there's another PSer near me! I'm more than happy to share. Actually I purchased the stone online from a reputable PS listed vendor and got the ring hand forged by my BF friend's father who is a Hong Kong setter that lives in SG. But he only does some parts of the ring and he would have to pass to his friend to set in the diamonds, meaning I might have to pay twice in future. Then I started looking for a suitable and resonably priced setter in Far East Plaza, and am glad that I've found my current one whom I set most of my recent rings (including egg yolk) with.

Just to share, this is egg yolk's latest flower shot




Hand forged jewlery is not at all common in Singapore, therefore the huge price difference compared to mass produced jewellery. But for a style that suits your stone and personality I find it really worth it! FYI, they usually charge by the weight of the gold used, workmanship(depends on the complexity of the piece) and the diamonds they sourced for example a halo or sides if there's any.

Let me know if you are interested to know more, I'll disclose the exact location of the store.

Hope this helps in your search!

Your egg yolk looks good enough to eat! It's stunning! You're really good in taking photographs of your jewelry
Yes, I am interested to know where your setter is in Far East Plaza. I don't really need handforged rings, I just want to have more options when it comes to setting some of my stones.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[GregS]

A stone I buy tomorrow is still very much a learner stone. But here are a couple...

My first was my Alexandrite, I jumped in feet first.



My next stone was this Tourmaline from Roger Dery, my mother adorns this now. It's dark, but rich in color and gorgeous.



Then there was this cc Sapphire... I have never warmed up to this stone. It has tiny inclusions down in the culet that render light return in a way that makes me want to wipe it off everytime I see it. It also has 50/50 extinction, definitely not a stone I'd buy again.



Then there were some Sphenes, a few more blue Tourmalines, Opals etc... I'm still hooked on Blue Tourmalines but have little to no interest in the others.