Sapphire experts?

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Written by Mikla » May 28th, 2012, 6:22 pm:I love the picture of the stone but I've never purchased from them. Have you searched this site for comments about the vendor?

Written by Coco914 » May 28th, 2012, 7:01 pm:You're right, cushions do face up smaller than oval cut stones. However, I think a sapphire with measurements similar to the Gemfix stone you posted would still have quite a presence on your finger, given your ring size and that you're also interested in having your gem set in a halo.

Gemfix has some amazing blue sapphires. Personally, I like the color of the stone you just posted. I always find myself drawn to sapphires with violet-blue undertones. Actually, I purchased a sapphire not too long ago that may (if photos are accruate) fall within close range of this one, with regard to color and saturation. Perhaps mine is a bit lighter, though. I think the stone you posted would be bright in person, not overly dark, and would probably have some very pretty, vibrant flashes of color. I don't think it has the glowy look that some of the other, more saturated sapphires on their website appear to have, but I don't think it'd look drab or washed out either. Another plus, it comes with an AGL lab report... All in all, I think that it's probably a decently priced sapphire. I'm sure if you gave Laura or Andrew a call, they'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. They also provide buyers with an inspection period and have a great return policy, it you want to see the stone in person.

Yesssss...definitely have a look at some sapphires in real life. I think that'd be very helpful, especially if your gemologist friend can show you a few in differing qualities. COLOR is the most important factor when shopping for sapphires...or any colored gemstones... clarity isn't quite as important as it is when grading or purchasing diamonds.

Keeps us posted on your quest for that stone!

Written by minousbijoux » May 28th, 2012, 9:39 pm:I don't know if this is an option for you, but many places have gem and jewelry shows quite frequently and if you were able to attend one, it is a quick way to see a lot of stones in person. You would get a feel for the size you are comfortable with on your hand, and the shape, color, tone and clarity that you like. Are there any near you?

Written by lin_ny » May 28th, 2012, 8:04 pm:What would worry me the most about buying a stone online is not really getting a feel for the colour. I suppose a video of it might be helpful in that kinda situation. I really want to steer away from the lighter sapphires. To be honest, when I see a nice sized sapphire in person I'm probably going to be blown away no matter what the quality or colour - sapphires are not popular here at all! I certainly would love that glowy look... you must have a well-trained eye because although I can tell the difference between the lighter and darker stones, I'm pretty inexperienced in telling anything else just by a picture. Now that I'm looking at that stone again I know I should focus more on stones with descriptions of vivid, intense blues instead of 'medium' blues. Once again - so hard to tell with just a picture!

Any thoughts on the different cuts they do? Not so sure I'm into this Portuguese cut. I'd of course like to maximize any sparkling I can get with such a dark, saturated stone!

Written by minousbijoux » May 29th, 2012, 1:55 am:If you live in the US, you might want to look up Intergem (International Gem and Jewelry Show). They have a regular schedule of events all over the US. There are also other shows sponsored by other groups as well. My one suggestion is to stay focused and not bring too much money with you

Written by Chrono » May 29th, 2012, 6:49 am:Yes, sapphires are denser and so will be smaller than diamonds. In general, a 1 ct round diamond is around 6.5 mm while a 1 ct round sapphire will measure 6 mm. Depending on the cut itself, usually a cushion will appear smaller than an oval.

The wow factor won't just be size but colour. If the colour pops, it will be noticed across the room. To get the same "look" as the Victor Canera cushion ring, you'll need a sapphire that is around 2.5 ct thereabouts. A 1.75 ct sapphire will be noticeably smaller.

It is difficult to get a delicate statement piece unless it is hand-forged. There is a limitation to what casting can achieve. Hand forging can also get you a stone that is set lower with less metal showing, compared to casting. I am not dissing casting at all as I own many such pieces but making an honest comparison of the two methods. Unfortunately, hand-forged will cost about twice as much as a cast piece. The Maytal piece you linked to will probably cost your entire budget and more. The minimum depth of the piece will depend on the depth of the stone.

For sapphires, there are several things to consider with some more important than others. For individual tastes though, some may place more importance on one over the other. In general, it's all about colour (purity of hue, tone - how dark or light, saturation or pop / vividness of colour). Treatment will also set the price. Untreated are always more expensive when all else is equal but plain heated stones are accepted in the market/trade. There are price jumps at certain carat marks, so there'll be one at 1 ct, 2 ct, 3 ct etc. Eye clean is also all that is needed. As long as cutting doesn't have obvious flaws (windows, off symmetry, extinction, deep belly), I'm good with that but some prefer their stones to be precision cut.

Written by Chrono » May 29th, 2012, 6:59 am:

Written by lin_ny » May 28th, 2012, 8:04 pm:What would worry me the most about buying a stone online is not really getting a feel for the colour. I suppose a video of it might be helpful in that kinda situation. I really want to steer away from the lighter sapphires. To be honest, when I see a nice sized sapphire in person I'm probably going to be blown away no matter what the quality or colour - sapphires are not popular here at all! I certainly would love that glowy look... you must have a well-trained eye because although I can tell the difference between the lighter and darker stones, I'm pretty inexperienced in telling anything else just by a picture. Now that I'm looking at that stone again I know I should focus more on stones with descriptions of vivid, intense blues instead of 'medium' blues. Once again - so hard to tell with just a picture!

Any thoughts on the different cuts they do? Not so sure I'm into this Portuguese cut. I'd of course like to maximize any sparkling I can get with such a dark, saturated stone!

Trust me, you don't want a DARK saturated stone. Actually, it is impossible to have a dark saturated stone because when it becomes overly dark, the saturation does not come through much at all. You are probably looking for a medium to medium dark toned sapphire with a strong to vivid saturation. Probably a slightly violetish blue in hue.

You should check out SilkSapphire's sapphire. Incredibly dreamy!
http://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/my-7-stone-emerald-cut-blue-sapphire-ring-t175313.html
http://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/my-dream-sapphire-found-t172133.html

Written by thbmok » May 29th, 2012, 10:08 am:In my experience GEMFIX's descriptions are much more accurate and helpful than the photos.

If you have a good idea of what color, cut, and size you have in mind consider asking http://www.whitesgems.com/ and http://www.precisiongem.com/ to see if they have any suitable material to cut. In my experience both of their descriptions and photos are spot on.

Written by Chrono » May 29th, 2012, 12:53 pm:The sapphire in the Maytal setting looks to likely be a medium dark, violetish blue sapphire with strong saturation. Just a guess based on a single picture. The angle and lighting makes it difficult to guess and I am uncomfortable with making unkind or inaccurate comments on other people's jewellery.

Hand forged means everything is done by hand. The shaping of the metal and etc. Casting is usually done with CAD first, the information from the computer is then downloaded to the machine that creates the wax mould. Once the piece is cast, it is finished by hand. Both methods are used for custom pieces but the hand-forged method is usually more labour intensive. It also takes an inordinate amount of training and skill.

Can you link to some example pictures what you mean by cushion cuts being slightly off-centred? I highly doubt anybody would purposefully cut something like that.

Written by Chrono » May 30th, 2012, 5:58 am:It is a cut issue - the first one is well cut, the second is totally flat like a pancake, windowed and has an off centre culet in order to save as much weight as possible. It isn't that many cushions are not well cut, it is a matter of where a person shops for the stones. NSC seems to have more poorly cut sapphires than well cut stones.

Correct; very few jewellers are able to hand forge jewellery. You have to shop around for the right bench to do your ring because beautiful pave can be done on a cast ring and horrible pave can be done on a hand-made ring and vice versa.

Hand forged versus Cast
A metal wire is pulled through a mechanism that makes sure the wire is absolutely even in measurement, akin to a pasta machine where there is a setting for the gauge or width of the slot and roll the slab of metal through which is then pulled into a wire. While being pulled through this mechanism, the metal is compressed in such a way that would not allow any bubbles or air pockets to occur inside the metal, unlike the method of casting where you pour the hot metal into the mould, guaranteed to trap some amount of air inside the metal causing bubble or air pockets to form. Once the wire is pulled, there is no filing or re-shaping needed, unlike the Cast method. It is ready to be bent into various components of the ring without further adjustments. Different gauged wires are pulled for the different parts of a ring, so no filing down or smoothing is needed at all, resulting in no irregular edges or unevenness in width or length which a cast ring might have. A cast piece of metal might have porosity issues because the act of pouring hot metal into the mold guarantees a certain degree of trapping air in causing bubbles/air pockets that would either be trapped inside of the metal or appear on the surface of the metal (so you see tiny indented dots on the metal). A good bench will be able to cast a ring without the porosity issue. The cast piece needs to be re-smoothed or filed to get rid of the excess metal until the precise measurement is met.

As you can see, there is a higher degree of accuracy and metal strength with the hand forged method, thus allowing the bench a greater freedom in making more delicate pieces.

Written by Chrono » May 31st, 2012, 10:54 am:You will find very few jewellers willing to go as thin as 1.5 mm even when hand forged.
http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/are-rings-too-thin-these-days-t155780-30.html

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Written by Arkteia » June 1st, 2012, 11:41 pm:I bought one sapphire from Gemfix and it is beautiful. It is a little bit light for my taste, but very bright and sparkly. I like this vendor and consider him very honest. He is also an amazing cutter.

Written by Chrono » June 1st, 2012, 5:53 am:You should check out the Show Me the Bling section of PS - lots of amazing halos that are also low set and delicate.