Sapphire Engagement Ring Help

[acote]

Hello all,

Over the last little while, I have been hunting for an engagement ring. My girlfriend has given very little instructions over the years except that she would prefer a sapphire over a diamond. During my search, I was directed here. From what I have read so far, this site has been a great help. The "new to colored gemstone buying" sticky was a great learning tool. However, I'm still slightly overwhelmed by the whole thing (sadly, coming here has made this process more overwhelming!), so I am looking for your help.

My budget (including setting) is around $3000.00 (Canadian Dollars). I'm located in Calgary, Canada and am planning to propose in September (most likely the 12th), so I would need something by the absolute latest by the 11th as we are travelling overseas on the 12th. Concerning the setting, it will most likely be pretty basic as I want the stone to be the focal point (think solitaire or three-stone style) and will need to be about 3mm thick in order to sit decently on her hand (she has small hands but slightly larger fingers).

I'm looking for a 1-1.25 carat sapphire (from what I have read, that's around 6.5ish mm, but I could be wrong). Obviously, the higher quality the better. In terms of cut, I think she would prefer round but cushion-cut is something that she would like as well. Thus far, I have looked at local jewellers but, given my limited knowledge, cannot be certain that what they are selling is fair value or that what they are offering is what I should really be looking for. In addition, I have looked at a few online places (Gemsny and Brilliant Earth for the most part, as they seem to have a decent selection of sapphire engagement rings to look at) though, after reading these boards, it seems as though the quality of the stones are not always as advertised and that I would be paying more and getting less by going in that direction.

So, my question to this forum is three-fold. First, given the size specification, what price should I be looking to pay for a relatively good sapphire (it doesn't have to be natural, heat treated is perfectly fine)? Second, would there have to be a serious quality loss in order to make a sapphire engagement ring of that size fit within my budget? Third, does anyone know of any reputable vendors where I can get a potential stone shipped to Calgary (or a vendor in Calgary) by the date specified above?

Thank you very much for your time.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[chrono]

I am not sure if you can get a 3 stone ring for $3000 because the setting and sidestones will eat up a good portion of your budget but a solitaire is definitely doable. Looks like your budget works out to $2800 USD. How high is the GST for your area? Is it 5%? If so, then your actual budget for the ring will be around $2650. Let's put aside $650 for the supposedly plain solitaire, leaving you no more than $2000 for the stone. To maximize your budget, I will look for heated stones.

I would first inquire with Andrew if he ships to Canada.
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

It's not round nor the best blue but well priced in its own right.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREMIUM-CUT-1-58CT-BLUE-SAPPHIRE-CEYLON-SEE-VIDEO-/370866566003?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item56595eb373

 

[SB621]

Another options is buying second hand.

A few places have sapphire rings though treatment on sapphires are probably unknow:
jewels by erica grace
new york estate jewelers
loupe troop


http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html also has many options in your price range so you might want to check them out too.

 

[Niel]

No sapphire expert, and who knows about the treatment but pretty, had diamonds, in budget, and accepts offers.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-18CT-2-20-SAPPHIRE-0-55CT-DIAMOND-CLUSTER-RING-/370790823723

 

[chrono]

I'm not so keen on their return policy:
7 days to cancel the transaction and only if it isn't as stated per the description.
There is a restocking fee for anything other than an exchange which is very limiting.
Returns from UK and EU 12% of hammer price.
Returns from the rest of the world for items of hammer price £75 or less, 20% of hammer price, minimum charge £10. For items of hammer price over £75 18%.

 

[Niel]

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/jeff-white-sapphire

See they will ship this to Canada.

With some searching k bet you could find a pear three stone setting for the remaining budget.

 

[acote]

Thank you all very much for the replies.

I have looked at Gemfix.com and found some stuff that looks good. According to their website, they won't ship to Canada if the order is over $999.00 USD. I have emailed them to see if this is flexible. In the meantime, I have been looking at some other online vendors (as well as hitting local stores). Has anyone had any experience with Africagems.com? I see them mentioned in the reputable vendors thread, but was wondering if anyone has anything in particular to say about them (good or bad). They seem to have some stones that fit within my budget, so I am wondering if I should pursue them as a potential seller.

I really like the look of the sapphire that Niel mentioned. I will admit that I'm a little apprehensive about buying a 2nd hand sapphire given that things like treatment and whatnot will be an unknown. None the less, I have sent an email off to inquire.

Again, thank you all very much for your help.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[chrono]

Gemfix seems to hold fast to their $999 policy to avoid tax headaches. Are you open to any ovals at all? I've seen some nice ovals but not cushions.

 

[acote]

Sadly, ovals are a no-go for me. I've heard from her specifically that she is not a huge fan of the oval shape on her finger. So, round or cushion it is, pretty much.

Thanks again for continuing to look. It is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[Niel]

Thank you all very much for the replies.

I have looked at Gemfix.com and found some stuff that looks good. According to their website, they won't ship to Canada if the order is over $999.00 USD. I have emailed them to see if this is flexible. In the meantime, I have been looking at some other online vendors (as well as hitting local stores). Has anyone had any experience with Africagems.com? I see them mentioned in the reputable vendors thread, but was wondering if anyone has anything in particular to say about them (good or bad). They seem to have some stones that fit within my budget, so I am wondering if I should pursue them as a potential seller.

I really like the look of the sapphire that Niel mentioned. I will admit that I'm a little apprehensive about buying a 2nd hand sapphire given that things like treatment and whatnot will be an unknown. None the less, I have sent an email off to inquire.

Again, thank you all very much for your help.

Cheers,

Adam

the seller is a PS member, and she bought it from a very reputable precision cut, if im not mistaken. Id ask if she has the old thread she could send you.

 

[SB621]

Jeff White is a well know lapidary and he charges bank for his precision cuts. I wouldn't think twice about buying this sapphire. Plus the PS member is a doll. I have met her in person and would have no issues buying this from her if I hadn't already contracted with JW about my own.

 

[acote]

Thank you for the information. That's great to hear! I have sent an email to the seller inquiring about shipping, etc. I am also still waiting to hear back from Gemfix.com concerning their ability to ship to Canada.

Again, thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions/advice. I think that what I end up with will be much better than what I would have found had I not been directed here.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[chrono]

As an FYI, there is usually an all sales final policy when buying from such an avenue so study the pictures well and ask many questions before making up your mind to purchase.

 

[MollyMalone]

I share Chrono's concerns re Ms. Crispin's return-refund policies. They are far from clear, e.g., to whom she will give a refund minus the restocking fee & who gets only a credit-exchange? And she isn't even in compliance with the UK's Distance Selling regulations, which specify (among other things) that
* the 7-window for returns is 7 working days, i.e., does not include weekends or bank holidays, and
* the refund must be an unconditional one, so her requirement that the merchandise be not "as described" -- and only if she agrees that's the case -- is impermissible.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

fyi: a Buy It Now purchase on eBay is covered by the regs; it is not considered to be within the exemption for "auctions". But I couldn't quickly find what I consider to be a reliable answer to the question of whether you, as a Canadian resident, are covered by the UK's Distance Selling regulations (Canada & the UK may have some kind of pact, as there is with the EU).

In any event, even if she pledges, in writing, to accept the return less the stated restocking charge, that 18% of ~3,000 Canadian or US dollars (plus insured mailing-delivery costs) means you'd lose more than $500. I am not adverse to buying non-costume jewelry off eBay (I purchased several pieces in the past year from 2 UK jewelers, both of whom offer no-hassle returns/refunds to US customers), but honestly, I wouldn't make this particular purchase under her terms.

 

[Niel]

I don't know what the exact price it'll be to get that sapphire, nor do I know if there's a place in Canada that sells this brand, but I think something like this would be cute, if your open to a halo element, as it ties in a cushion look.

http://www.gabrielny.com/engaged/style/ER7510W44JJ

 

[acote]

@JF - Thanks for the link. That ring is very similar to what I am looking for. However, the oval shape would come to bother her, I think. Best of luck in selling it, though. It's very nice!

I am still waiting to hear back from Gemfix (and a few others) regarding shipping. Once I get the shipping issues sorted my hope is to post some pictures of stones in here for feedback. It never hurts to have more eyes on these types of things.

I do have another question, however. I am seeing that some stones come with an AGL report while others don't. I understand that the AGL report is a pretty definitive certification of the properties of the stone (treatment, origin, etc.) but how much importance should I place on it when making a purchase? Should I be apprehensive about stones that do not come with a report?

Cheers,

Adam

 

[MollyMalone]

Hope you find this thread useful, Adam
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...a-store-questions-about-certification.168458/

FYI there is more than 1 kind of AGL report. Here's AGL's description of the differences amongst their reports
http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report/

and their current prices for performing these services:
http://aglgemlab.com/pricelist/

 

[minousbijoux]

In a nutshell, you should not consider the purchase of a sapphire without a report from a reputable lab, unless you are fairly certain of the provenance of the stone in question. You'll hear us say over and over "trust but verify" as a means of protecting yourself. This is harder to do with second hand stones and, in the absence of a lab report on the stone, is often why the seller is offering a large price discount on the stone. Another way to do it is to make the sale contingent upon a lab report with results satisfactory to you. In the case of the JW sapphire being sold by Athenaworth, both the cutter and the current owner are well known and highly respected here on PS, if that is any help.

As an fyi, many of us insist on lab reports for expensive stones because some quite invasive treatments are hard to determine without expensive testing. So for example, a sapphire lattice diffused with a substance like beryllium, will get you that intensely saturated, bright, sought after blue, but won't be worth nearly as much because it means the sapphire did not come by its color naturally. You want to protect against this occurring, and oftentimes in the gem world, stones are sold as heat only when they have been diffused and sometimes the vendors end up being as surprised as us customers.

 

[Jesusfreak]

@JF - Thanks for the link. That ring is very similar to what I am looking for. However, the oval shape would come to bother her, I think. Best of luck in selling it, though. It's very nice!

I am still waiting to hear back from Gemfix (and a few others) regarding shipping. Once I get the shipping issues sorted my hope is to post some pictures of stones in here for feedback. It never hurts to have more eyes on these types of things.

I do have another question, however. I am seeing that some stones come with an AGL report while others don't. I understand that the AGL report is a pretty definitive certification of the properties of the stone (treatment, origin, etc.) but how much importance should I place on it when making a purchase? Should I be apprehensive about stones that do not come with a report?

Cheers,

Adam

No Problem at all. I will keep my eyes peeled for you my friend. I was looking for rounds as well and I was REALLY stubborn for a few months until I broke and tapped into ovals. I ended up with an oval for her in the end. Rounds come as a premium because of the wasted stone that you have to shave off during the cutting phase. I am not saying it can't be found and you seem to have some pretty reasonable criteria. I will do some searching tomorrow and see what I come up with. I have come along ways. No way can I say I have mastered gemstone searching but I can make my way around the internet pretty well.

To answer your questions, I would considering it PRIORITY to get either GIA or AGL certs with the stone, PERIOD! I know there are out of the country Certs but I honestly don't know much about them. I know that most gem lovers like to go with AGL because it seems that they are certifying more of the high end gems and take closer attention and maybe they have more testing equipment and personnel to make these tests but again I am only speaking off opinion and not off of fact or any experience.

However, I would say that its really hard to say anything about a stone and where it came from unless it has at least been tested and someone of this trade and specialty has looked at it.

Again, I wish you the very best in your search. It might be one of the longest searches you will ever endure for something but it always pays off. Wait didn't you say Sept. 11th? I hope you find it before then. I passed up a lot of opportunities that made the anxiety and patience get really tested. Anyways, I am rambling. haha.

Take Care

God Bless

Ulysses

 

[chrono]

For personal reasons, no matter the vendor, I would want verification that the sapphire is heat only. Vendors are only human too and sometimes makes errors as well. I'd also like to note that it isn't necessarily only the intensely saturated bright blue sapphires that have been diffused, but all sorts of shades of blues.

No idea how much this one costs so you'll have to inquire.
http://www.spectralgems.net/?attachment_id=1037
http://www.spectralgems.net/?attachment_id=1038

 

[acote]

Thanks all for your information on lab reports. I will ensure that whatever I do buy ends up having a report from a reputable lab.

A quick update on my search:

The seller of the Jeff White Sapphire on LT has decided to keep her stone (given the look of it, with good reason!) so that is out of the running. As for Gemfix.com, they have confirmed for me that they do not ship to Canada on orders over $999.00USD. While there are some gems there under 999, I have not really been wowed by any, so it seems like they are out as well.

I am in the process of getting some photos of gems from some other vendors (whom I found through the "reputable vendor" thread) and, as soon as I have them, I will post them for some opinions.

@Chrono, thank you for pointing that stone out to me. It seems like spectral gems has quite a few rounds in the size I am looking for. I will inquire there.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[acote]

I have received some photos from a vendor and am looking for some opinions. This stone is around $2000.00 (leaving room enough for a setting) and has an AGL report which specifies Heat treatment but no additional treatments. Obviously making a judgement from a photo is difficult, but I'm just looking for general opinions concerning the stone's features. Overall, I tend to like it's color and the general look of it; however, it never hurts to get more opinions.




Cheers,

Adam

 

[chrono]

What is the ct weight and measurement? The lighting condition used is the best for the sapphire so there will be times when it will not look this great. Ask the vendor about the colour shift indoors - does it get more purple, grayer, etc?

 

[acote]

The carat weight is 1.6 and it measures 7.1x6.5x4.5. As for lighting, I have discussed that with the vendor and he has said that it's a relatively lightly colored stone. Indoors, it looks like a lighter shade of blue, more clear (though not windowed). They have also told me that there is a bit of color zoning that is less apparent in person than in photos.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[Thuvia]

Given that you are in Canada, you might want to check out Lisa Elser as a fellow Canadian. Her web site in listed in the vendor's thread.

 

[chrono]

A very difficult decision because you are across the border. I am not comfortable with how obvious the zoning is in the pictures and although he said it is less apparent in person, how much less obvious is it? If not for that, the colour is pretty.

 

[Jesusfreak]

That picture makes it really hard to make out the stone. If it looks like that, I personally wouldn't choose it. Have you checked out Dana with Mastercutgems? I am not sure if he ships to Canada but he is an amazing guy to deal with and would definitely contact him. One of the stones that are still available that stick out to me from his page are this one here:
http://mastercutgems.com/viewgem.php?gemid=6945&id=26440

I can see this being a beautiful stone in person!

Ulysses

 

[UrsTx]

I apologize if this has already been posted but have you poked around http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/ yet? They ship internationally. I have no personal experience with them though. I've just enjoyed looking at their site.

The expert PSers can analyze this but here's one $1932USD, 1.6 carats vvs2. I think it looks pretty but someone else will know more.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Blue/B5176/Round/stoneid=B5176

 

[acote]

Thank you for the opinions on the stone. I agree that there is a certain amount of zoning. In some pictures, it does look like there is less than in others, but it is still there. I am still considering it, but am continuing to look other places as well.

@Thuvia - I have looked into Lisa Elser before but, from her website, she didn't seem to have any sapphires that fit my specifications. I am continuing to check, however, as getting a stone from a Canadian vendor would be ideal.

@Chrono - I have inquired as to the 1.56ct sapphire photo you linked. It is within my price range, so I have requested further photos.

@ UrsTx - I have looked at the NSC before and, while they do seem to have some nice stones, they don't seem have a lab report included with them from a reputable lab. In addition, I have read some relatively bad reviews of the NSC and so am a little apprehensive about purchasing from them.

I am waiting on photos for 2 more sapphires that I am hoping to get some opinions on. Hopefully I can post them tomorrow.

Cheers,

Adam

 

[chrono]

Lisa sends out a PDF catalogue every month so she has far more stones than listed on her website. I think it would be beneficial to contact her to see if she has anything that fits your requirements.