Russian Alexandrite VS Brazilian Alexandrite

[CollectorExpress]

I basically have 2 options .
Either going for a 1 ct Russian Alexandrite with slight inclusions ( with the unaided eye) but a 99 % color change or a 2.90 ct Brazilian Alexandrite with a 85% color change but excellent clarity .What would you have done in this situation ?

Tough Tough call .

P.S: They are both documented.

 

[VapidLapid]

Please share photos and documents, else you already know far more than we do.

 

[chrono]

How is the colour on the indoor and outdoor side? Some tend to have better indoor or better outdoor colour. Also, is pricing close or far off?

 

[CollectorExpress]

I actually met the dealer in person but something tells me I have to go for the Russian one .

The Brazilian changes colors from a medium dark bluish green to a medium dark violet .

As for the Russian one I found a picture that illustrates the colors that you are seeing on this picture

http://noospheregeologic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bigalexandrite2008.jpg

The Russian Alexandrites green veers surprisingly to a yellow in daylight to a rich medium dark reddish ( and very slightly maroonish) purple in incandescent light .Hard to describe the kind of purple that I saw but what I can say is that its very different from the other purples that I have seen so far.

 

[VapidLapid]

*yawn*

 

[CollectorExpress]

Pricewise the Brazilian one is going for 19000$ while the Russian one is going for 14 000$.

 

[soberguy]

Pictures of each stone and the certificates from a reputable lab?

 

[minousbijoux]

It is extremely unlikely, though not impossible, for you to have found a Russian alexandrite. If you are asking for real and meaningful advice and feedback, then we will need to see photos of both stones and photos of the lab reports - not appraisals, not certificates from the dealer/vendor offering the gems for sale - from a reputable lab like AGL, GIA, AIGS, Gubelin, GRS or a few others. The lab reports will indicate the degree of color change, if any, as well as color, clarity and all the rest.

Right now, we cannot possibly say because we have no idea of what you have.

 

[chrono]

No pics and no lab reports?

 

[diamondcut]

There is strong colour resemblances between Brazilian and Russian alexandrites, but the Russian stones are said to be slightly darker and less clean than Brazilian. From a collector / investor perspective, Russian alexandrite is the most valuable of all the alexandrites, but only if it's origin can be proved.

 

[LD]

Unless you have a lab report from AGL or SSEF stating categorically that it's a Russian Alexandrite then I'm sorry but your dealer should not be believed. IF and this is a big IF, a Russian Alex has been released onto the market it will most definitely have a reputable lab report. If I remember correctly, the only lab that has conducted extensive investigations on proving origin in Alexandrites is SSEF.

Please read this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/have-you-really-got-an-alexandrite-read-this-first.179784/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/have-you-really-got-an-alexandrite-read-this-first.179784/[/URL]

Forgive me for sounding jaded but please search this forum for the huge number of Alexandrite threads where people are being sold or say they own a Russian Alexandrite.

Diamondcut - how much alex have you seen please? Forgive me for quoting Karl Schmetzer but he has written a book on Alexandrite that pulled in all known Russian Alexandrites to compare with a small amount of Brazilian, Indian and other samples. He says "Alexandrite from the Urals shows a wide variation of colours in daylight and incandescent light".

 

[LD]

I basically have 2 options .
Either going for a 1 ct Russian Alexandrite with slight inclusions ( with the unaided eye) but a 99 % color change or a 2.90 ct Brazilian Alexandrite with a 85% color change but excellent clarity .What would you have done in this situation ?

Tough Tough call .

P.S: They are both documented.

Apart from the Russian element, this puts me on high alert. There are very few that exhibit this amount of colour change.

 

[diamondcut]

LD, I saw Russian Alexandrite in the Tiffany's pieces, in the museum. I think it was V&A. Saw a lot of Brazilian and Indian stones at the shows. And I was also quoting http://www.alexandrite.net/

 

[LD]

LD, I saw Russian Alexandrite in the Tiffany's pieces, in the museum. I think it was V&A. Saw a lot of Brazilian and Indian stones at the shows. And I was also quoting http://www.alexandrite.net/

To be fair (and if you ask David he will tell you this) he's not seen a huge amount of Russian. He participated in Karl's research and if you're interested in this gem then it's worth getting but it's very scientific in approach.

 

[diamondcut]

LD, I saw Russian Alexandrite in the Tiffany's pieces, in the museum. I think it was V&A. Saw a lot of Brazilian and Indian stones at the shows. And I was also quoting http://www.alexandrite.net/

To be fair (and if you ask David he will tell you this) he's not seen a huge amount of Russian. He participated in Karl's research and if you're interested in this gem then it's worth getting but it's very scientific in approach.

LD, just to confrim. This is the book, right?

http://www.schweizerbart.de/publications/detail/isbn/9783510652624

 

[LD]

LD, I saw Russian Alexandrite in the Tiffany's pieces, in the museum. I think it was V&A. Saw a lot of Brazilian and Indian stones at the shows. And I was also quoting http://www.alexandrite.net/

To be fair (and if you ask David he will tell you this) he's not seen a huge amount of Russian. He participated in Karl's research and if you're interested in this gem then it's worth getting but it's very scientific in approach.

LD, just to confrim. This is the book, right?

http://www.schweizerbart.de/publications/detail/isbn/9783510652624

Yes.

The problem is that it doesn't really look at what's available on the market now.

 

[CollectorExpress]

They are both documented Russian and Brazilian .I didn't take my glasses with me the other day so the Russian didn't appear that included.So i ended up picking the Brazilian one .
It is a miconception that Russian Alexandrites are no longer being mined .They still are but the quality is just not there anymore.


pictures of the brazilian .

 

[chrono]

How accurate are Litnon's pictures? I would not have pegged it for an alexandrite by the colours alone because the shift is blue to purple whereas one would expect to see green (with a touch of blue) to purplish red.

 

[LD]

Funny you should ask that Chrono because I had a debate about this stone with somebody else recently. I think the OP has bought this stone and as such, I hope they enjoy it. Anybody who buys Alex in my opinion has good taste However, I know that the stone has an EGL report - does it actually state Brazilian because it looks very much like Indian material? That, by the way, wouldn't be a negative thing at all, I'm just expressing surprise that it's Brazilian especially if I recall because the photo on the EGL report showed more green than blue. Would be interested to know as I'm nosey!

You may be interested in the following:

Mining of alexandrite in Russia was always a by-product of Emerald mining. There were 7 mining areas all discovered before 1840 concentrating on Emeralds. Because Alexandrite was a by-product there is no accurate record of what was mined and the quality. By 1853 all mining stopped and was sporadic until 1899 when the mines were sub-leased by the then owners (there were lots of owners both state and private). Mining stopped again in 1915. However, again, this was Emerald mining rather than specific Alexandrite mining.

Quote from Karl Schmetzer:

"In 1955 the extraction of beryl and emerald continued from the Malysheva Mine to supply material for a new technological process constructed for the enrichment of beryl and a new factory was built in 1957. Underground development at the Maysheva Mine, conducted from 1965, reached depths not achieved at any other deposit. With the discovery of new beryllium deposit made elsewhere in the early 1970s mining gradually shifted from the production of beryllium ore back to the production of gem quality emerald. The period between 1970 and 1980 became the renaissance of the Uralian emerald mines.

........ In 1995 a group of investors tried to reopen the famous Srentensky Mine where a number of large historical emeralds had been found. Open pit mining was performed on a large scale but no emeralds of good quality were discovered and work stopped in 1996.

........ In 2005 mining rights of Malysheva emeralds as well as export licenses for emerald and alexandrite were transferred to the Canadian "Tsar Emerald Corporation and/or their Russian Subsidiary. The mine closed in the fall of 2007.

Production figures for cleaned alex (without mica) are available between 2001-2004 when the Malysheva mine worked. The total production of facetable material was 9,167g. Of this 27g (0.29%) was considered to be clean and fine and above 10mm in size. 40g was medium, 43g was fair and 110g was substandard. The majority of the find was moderately included stones between 2-10mm and 10mm and above classified as sub standard or fair.

The conclusion was that larger clean gem quality facet grade samples with good colour change were extremely rare"

 

[CollectorExpress]

I am back .I had a long discussion with the dealer and was told that he sent it by mistake even though they looked so similar.Was pretty confusing .Anyways thanks a bunch for your feedbacks.

BTW I love Indian alexandrites so why are you giving me this talk ??!!

I ended up getting another Russian one Its a 1.1 carat oval with a 100% color change .The dealer who is of Russian descent and a 4th generation jewelry told me hat it was brought to him from Russia during the 90's .He is been keeping it in his safe for 30 years .He also has a 3 carater from Russia but I wouldn't dare ask for the price as I know .........

I am in the process of sending it to the Gubelin lab .I also have the book entitled " Russian Alexandrites' and I could see a couple of them looking like the one I got .

This is hands down the best purchase I've ever made .