Return, Keep, or Recut?

[carmen1]

Hi everyone -

I purchased a blue sapphire on a bit of an impulse, and it is still within the return period. I unfortunately have been working pretty much around the clock since I received it and haven't had much time to spend checking it out in different lighting, etc. My first impression was underwhelming, but it was also in the evening in poor lighting so I figured I'd put it away until I could give it a fair look. I took it out for the second time today to bring it in to work, and it did look better in my bright office during the day. However I'm still not sure about it, partly because I have an existing blue sapphire in a ring that is kind of similar in color and size.

One of the issues I see with the new sapphire is that it sometimes appears darker on one side, not dark to the point of extinction, but just a half-and-half color issue. The cut isn't great, which I knew before I bought it, and it has excess depth, so I did reach out to Jerry Newman to see whether this may be worth a pavilion recut. He was quick to respond and very helpful, he told me he did think performance would improve with a pavilion recut, it would retain its face-up size but may lose 10-15% of its weight - which could possibly put it below the 2ct mark (Jerry said that would be too close to call).

Given that my return clock is ticking away, could you give me your opinions on whether I should keep it and/or have it recut?

Thank you!!

Vendor Photos:

 

[carmen1]

And crummy iPhone pictures I took in my office today:

 

[T L]

Depends on how much you paid per carat. A 2+ carat sapphire is worth a lot more than a < 2 carat sapphire. If you were underwhelmed though, there's no guarantee you'll love it after a recut, and it can lose saturation as well. If it were an inexpensive stone, I would say take the risk, but in this case, it might not be worth it. There are lots of sapphires out there, so keep looking. Good luck.

 

[gingercurls]

Hi Carmen. I will say that Jerry is excellent to work with and I trust his judgement implicitly. Since you already have something similar and you aren't in love with it, I would return it. If there is one lesson that I learned from my "learner" stones, it is that if something doesn't wow you as soon as you see it, it is a good idea to pass. Unlike a lot of other material, it seems, at least in my opinion, that sapphires are relatively easy to come by. Chances are you will be able to find something that has a great cut and the color you are looking for. Even though Jerry is fantastic, there is always the chance that you will lose saturation with a recut.

 

[chrono]

You purchased this from a lapidary and if he didn't already tweak it for whatever reason, I'm sure the reasons are well thought out and good, which means I would not recut the stone (will fall below the 2 ct mark for very little cut and colour improvement). If you don't love it and have a similar sapphire as you mentioned earlier, then I would return it.

 

[LoversKites]

You purchased this from a lapidary and if he didn't already tweak it for whatever reason, I'm sure the reasons are well thought out and good, which means I would not recut the stone (will fall below the 2 ct mark for very little cut and colour improvement). If you don't love it and have a similar sapphire as you mentioned earlier, then I would return it.

+1

 

[Marlow]

You purchased this from a lapidary and if he didn't already tweak it for whatever reason, I'm sure the reasons are well thought out and good, which means I would not recut the stone (will fall below the 2 ct mark for very little cut and colour improvement). If you don't love it and have a similar sapphire as you mentioned earlier, then I would return it.

In none of the pictures I don't like the stone....You should return it if you don't love this sapphire.

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Hi Carmen. I will say that Jerry is excellent to work with and I trust his judgement implicitly. Since you already have something similar and you aren't in love with it, I would return it. If there is one lesson that I learned from my "learner" stones, it is that if something doesn't wow you as soon as you see it, it is a good idea to pass. Unlike a lot of other material, it seems, at least in my opinion, that sapphires are relatively easy to come by. Chances are you will be able to find something that has a great cut and the color you are looking for. Even though Jerry is fantastic, there is always the chance that you will lose saturation with a recut.

+1

 

[carmen1]

Thank you all for your advice!

I honestly have not spent more than a couple minutes in total looking at this sapphire since I got it, once in a dark room at home, and once in my bright office, so I'm just not sure how I feel about it - maybe I could love it. It sounds like everyone agrees that a recut is not worth the risk of going under the 2ct mark or losing saturation. The "similar" sapphire I mentioned is definitely smaller, a bit less saturated and has a small window, so I was hoping to upgrade to a nicer sapphire at some point. So I guess my question is - can I do better for a blue sapphire of this size (7.7x6.6ish) in this price range? I know there are nicer sapphires to be had, but with a limited budget it can be tricky.

 

[LoversKites]

Could you post a picture of the sapphire colour you'd ideally want? What's your budget?

 

[T L]

Thank you all for your advice!

I honestly have not spent more than a couple minutes in total looking at this sapphire since I got it, once in a dark room at home, and once in my bright office, so I'm just not sure how I feel about it - maybe I could love it. It sounds like everyone agrees that a recut is not worth the risk of going under the 2ct mark or losing saturation. The "similar" sapphire I mentioned is definitely smaller, a bit less saturated and has a small window, so I was hoping to upgrade to a nicer sapphire at some point. So I guess my question is - can I do better for a blue sapphire of this size (7.7x6.6ish) in this price range? I know there are nicer sapphires to be had, but with a limited budget it can be tricky.

Did I miss it in this post (I admit my eyes aren't that great lately), but did you provide the price range?

 

[carmen1]

No it wasn't your eyes, I didn't include the price range - Sorry! I'm looking for something under $2,500.

Also, for color preference I think a medium royal blue, definitely nothing overly dark.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[T L]

No it wasn't your eyes, I didn't include the price range - Sorry! I'm looking for something under $2,500.

Also, for color preference I think a medium royal blue, definitely nothing overly dark.

Thanks again for all your help!

Yes, I think that's an acceptable price range for a heated sapphire (no other treatments), in the color/size you want.

 

[pregcurious]

It sounds like everyone agrees that a recut is not worth the risk of going under the 2ct mark or losing saturation.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[minousbijoux]

Carmen: I find the color to be very pleasing. Interestingly, it appears not to be precision cut from the photos as the pavilion seems off center. You might want to ask John why that is. He is one of the better cutter, imo, so it has me wondering whether he cut this stone at all, and if not, why not.

Also, as an aside, those are the first really good (and seemingly accurate) photos I've seen from him. I wish he took hand shots like that instead of studio shots. Wishful thinking, I know.

 

[LoversKites]

This is just under 2ct, heat only per AGL, nice royal colour, $758. If you have concerns about the zoning you can ask Brad about it, he will be happy to answer. I think it's a good price. Plus, you avoid the 2ct price jump. http://www.thegemtrader.com/Feb15BSapphirePage.htm

 

[Marlow]

Carmen: I find the color to be very pleasing. Interestingly, it appears not to be precision cut from the photos as the pavilion seems off center. You might want to ask John why that is. He is one of the better cutter, imo, so it has me wondering whether he cut this stone at all, and if not, why not.

Also, as an aside, those are the first really good (and seemingly accurate) photos I've seen from him. I wish he took hand shots like that instead of studio shots. Wishful thinking, I know.

I found the stone on the homepage - a 2.30 ct for 1800 $ - heat only ( AGL) with a native ( and good imo ) Sri Lanka cut.

So he did not cut this stone.

IMO a bargain. Good size and clarity, a color not to dark - an AGL report....

With a recut of the pavillion maybe around 2 ct ( Jerry seems to be a wizard) - but I wouldn't do this.

 

[carmen1]

Thanks everyone for all your helpful advice. I spent some more time trying to decide on it recently, and I think my biggest issue is that it looks its worst indoors/under incandescent lights. If it looked like the photos above all the time I'd be thrilled. So I'm wondering - is it too much to expect that? Do most sapphires shift to greyish indoors or in incandescent light?

A smaller nagging issue for me is the way it sometimes looks darker on one half - I think it can be seen in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e75nI0fajLA. I thought that may be due to the lopsided pavilion, which is why I had initially asked about a recut, but don't want to risk the size or saturation loss, although the stone has quite a bit of excess depth.

I don't want to be too picky, since I do think the price was good (as Marlow noted), and I am not sure in my price range that I'll be able to find a better blue sapphire in this size. And it does look very nice in bright and natural light, I just wonder if I have to expect that sapphires will not look as nice at home as they do outside or under bright lighting.

Minous - I had previously been hesitant to purchase from them mostly due to not being able to interpret their photos, but John was quick to provide handshots when I asked, and the video was helpful as well. John has been really easy to work with and very patient with me and my indecision!

 

[chrono]

Most sapphires will shift under indoor lighting. Most will become grayish but some will shift to a very pretty purplish blue (this is my preferred indoor shift) whilst holding its level of saturation. The darkening of the half is not due to the slightly offset culet but due to the style/pattern of the cut. It is more commonly seen in elongated shapes like rectangular cushions and ovals but there are cut designs that avoid this, such as the very much loved supernova ovals by PSers.

 

[T L]

Thanks everyone for all your helpful advice. I spent some more time trying to decide on it recently, and I think my biggest issue is that it looks its worst indoors/under incandescent lights. If it looked like the photos above all the time I'd be thrilled. So I'm wondering - is it too much to expect that? Do most sapphires shift to greyish indoors or in incandescent light?

A smaller nagging issue for me is the way it sometimes looks darker on one half - I think it can be seen in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e75nI0fajLA. I thought that may be due to the lopsided pavilion, which is why I had initially asked about a recut, but don't want to risk the size or saturation loss, although the stone has quite a bit of excess depth.

I don't want to be too picky, since I do think the price was good (as Marlow noted), and I am not sure in my price range that I'll be able to find a better blue sapphire in this size. And it does look very nice in bright and natural light, I just wonder if I have to expect that sapphires will not look as nice at home as they do outside or under bright lighting.

Minous - I had previously been hesitant to purchase from them mostly due to not being able to interpret their photos, but John was quick to provide handshots when I asked, and the video was helpful as well. John has been really easy to work with and very patient with me and my indecision!

You may be able to afford another sapphire in that price range, but it may be lighter in tone. I would look for lighter sapphires with a similar color. It is possible if you keep looking. I think at this point, you're making so many excuses to keep it, that you feel you have to keep it, and if you're "underwhelmed," I would return it. It's not worth keeping something you have to force yourself to like. No one is really saying you need to get a top color one, but you have options, and I would keep looking. Sapphires are not in such short supply that you don't have that option.

In my long history of collecting, I will just say that I wish I could redeem and return all the stones I was indecisive about. I never wear them, and I could have used the money for something better.

 

[minousbijoux]

Carmen: Thanks for your response to me. It is really good to know that John is so accommodating, as I find his cutting to be excellent. So while you are sitting on the fence, I think you should ask John why, as a precision cutter, he didn't take care of these issues - fix the depth, correct the off-center pavilion, and in the process try to mitigate some of the half shadowing thing you see. There is a reason a precision cutter will sell a stone as is. If he left it alone for some reason, it diminishes the likelihood that Jerry can recut it to your satisfaction. I would definitely ask John why he didn't recut it.

 

[PieAreSquared]

... I think my biggest issue is that it looks its worst indoors/under incandescent lights. If it looked like the photos above all the time I'd be thrilled. So I'm wondering - is it too much to expect that? Do most sapphires shift to greyish indoors or in incandescent light?... And it does look very nice in bright and natural light, I just wonder if I have to expect that sapphires will not look as nice at home as they do outside or under bright lighting.



No, you cannot expect a blue sapphire to look the same color under incandescent lights as it does outside. As a matter of fact, the same can be said for nearly all colored objects! Color is all about light. We talk about stones being "shifty" as if they were sneaky little chameleons trying to trick us, but the "shift" invariably comes with the light source.

Barrett posted a fantastic article here a few years back on the subject of lighting with charts and everything:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gemstone-and-mineral-photography-and-its-lighting.157563/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gemstone-and-mineral-photography-and-its-lighting.157563/[/URL]

 

[T L]

I own a blue sapphire (AGL heat only) that has hardly any color shift, no matter the lighting, so they can be found. It's African and light toned though. I think it's an Umba sapphire, but I'm not sure. While most gems have a color shift, the change can be less dramatic than for others.