Padparadscha Engagement Ring

[anImaru]

I saw a in a recent thread that you were able to help another user find a paradparadscha for an engagement ring so thought I'd try my luck as well. I too am looking for one for an engagement ring since both the girlfriend and I love the stone.

Ideally it would be cushion cut (although round and oval are okay as well), >= 2.5 carats, unheated, AGL certified. As for the color, since there is a vast range of colors people consider pads, it would be something close to this: http://www.africagems.com/sapphire-padparadsha-ja855.html . Would have seriously considered this one if it wasn't already sold . Budget is ~$50,000.

I live in NYC and have talked to a couple dealers but most of them only managed to find very light colored stones that I am not a fan of. Most were close to this:

The only stones that I have seen in person so far that I liked the colors of were these 3 but they were in the 1.5-2 carat range so a bit small (sorry for the lighting, the real gems were much closer to the color of the africagems one I linked to earlier):




I know what I am looking for is extremely particular and hard to find so have allocated around 3-4 months to find the right stone. Also my preference would be a dealer I can actually go visit rather than conducting the business entirely through email/phone.

 

[FrekeChild]

How do you feel about stones that are already set? I know of one across the country from you, but it's already in a setting. They will ship to you so you can get a look at it though.

Also, it has less than perfect cutting, but with these stones, cut flaws are often overlooked...

Heated? Unheated? Does it matter to you?

 

[FrekeChild]

It's not quite to your size range, but GRS cert, cushion and 2.24ct. Halo setting with half moons.

http://www.escobardiamonds.com/show...t unheated Padparascha sapphire 1/2 moon ring

 

[RandG]

There are very good NYC based auctions coming up through year-end, as well as the Miami jewelry show. All good places to source something unique like this. Also, both Harry Winston and Tiffany have worked with this gemstone in recent years. Tiffany did a few one-of-a-kind Blue Book pieces which were spectacular. I would contact the personal shoppers at the NYC store for more information. There is a lovely Oscar Heyman ring on 1st dibs as well. The stone is in your desired size/budget and if you don't love how its mounted for an engagement ring, you can reach out to Heymans NYC office or one of their distributors to ask about a new mounting. Shreve Crump, an extremely reputable dealer can also assist, I'm sure. https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/cluster-rings/oscar-heyman-padparadscha-sapphire-ring/id-j_110465/

Good luck in your search!

 

[T L]

The darker stones you posted look brownish,if the photos are accurate, and I wouldn't even consider them padparadcha. The Africagems stone is prettier, and I hope they really do look like that. I've seen many orangey brownish pink/red spinels with a similar color to the ones in your photos (make sure it's not really a color shift to a brownish color). I actually prefer the lighter brighter one you posted, even though it's peach in color.

Choosing a padparadcha is very difficult, even for a person who is well versed in colored stones, and there are many dealers that use the term loosely.

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Might be worth contacting Wilds.

http://wildsglobalminerals.com/padparadscha-sapphire/

 

[anImaru]

How do you feel about stones that are already set? I know of one across the country from you, but it's already in a setting. They will ship to you so you can get a look at it though.

Also, it has less than perfect cutting, but with these stones, cut flaws are often overlooked...

Heated? Unheated? Does it matter to you?

Preference is definitely unheated and also unset. I have a two particular settings in mind (one with tapered baguettes and other has two half moons) depending on the cut of the stone so would have to get it reset otherwise.

 

[anImaru]

There are very good NYC based auctions coming up through year-end, as well as the Miami jewelry show. All good places to source something unique like this. Also, both Harry Winston and Tiffany have worked with this gemstone in recent years. Tiffany did a few one-of-a-kind Blue Book pieces which were spectacular. I would contact the personal shoppers at the NYC store for more information. There is a lovely Oscar Heyman ring on 1st dibs as well. The stone is in your desired size/budget and if you don't love how its mounted for an engagement ring, you can reach out to Heymans NYC office or one of their distributors to ask about a new mounting. Shreve Crump, an extremely reputable dealer can also assist, I'm sure. https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/cluster-rings/oscar-heyman-padparadscha-sapphire-ring/id-j_110465/

Good luck in your search!

Been to Tiffany already, they did not have anything available in the US. They did have one that was sold earlier in the year for $80k so I've asked them to keep an eye out for me. My experience with Harry Winston would be if if they did have anything it would be way out of my budget but I'll go take a look this weekend.

I will give Shreve a call about the ring and see if he can provide any more pictures of the ring/stone in question but it looks promising.

By the way do you have any info on what are the auctions that are coming up. I know Sotheby's has one in December but not sure about any others.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[anImaru]

It's not quite to your size range, but GRS cert, cushion and 2.24ct. Halo setting with half moons.

http://www.escobardiamonds.com/show...t unheated Padparascha sapphire 1/2 moon ring

That is indeed gorgeous. Will keep it in mind but hopefully can find something a bit bigger.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone and keep them coming.

Just contacted Shreve, Crump & Low and they will be sending over some more pictures of the ring on 1st dibs as well as other inventory they might have available. Will also be visiting James & Co again (where I found those 3 stones) since he had some others to show me as well. Will try to get some better photographs this time.

This is a lot more work than I had imagined. Maybe there is a chance the person who bought the Africagems stone doesn't like it and returns it? I can only hope.

 

[RandG]

Make sure you ask whether there is a window in the Heyman stone. The extra images should help!

I'm surprised about Tiffany. I was there recently for a focus group and saw at least two Blue Book pieces, one in the $40K range. With Winston, be sure to ask whether they can do a custom piece for you. Your budget may be just shy of their sweet spot but it never hurts to ask. With all these entities, its often about finding the right person who works from a place of yes rather than a place of no.

I would recommend Christie's and Bonhams. Their end of year auctions get the best pieces. When you visit each respective website, look at auctions worldwide. You can register, bid, and do all of it remotely. Given your budget, you can also make an appointment and visit a jewelry specialist at Christie's/Bonhams NY. In addition to a private viewing, they will do a search for you, and may even know of a collector looking to purge a piece. Skinner, Doyle and Heritage are good to explore too.

You sound pretty savvy, but I will reiterate the importance of a recent cert (within the last 6-12 months) and buying from a reputable seller.

Have fun!

 

[anImaru]

Nevermind. Tried calling. Apparently he has retired so no idea how I would reach him

Just found this gem: http://rwwise.com/products/id%7C1970

Thoughts? Also how important would a recent cert be?

 

[chrono]

I'm quite sure he has retired and no longer runs the website.

 

[Niel]

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121067374159&alt=webweb

Heated but the size might make up for it

 

[anImaru]

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121067374159&alt=webweb

Heated but the size might make up for it

That is a beautiful stone. I could not find any info related to a cert so will have to contact them I guess. Also one area of concern is the seller is located in Thailand which is why I didn't call Wilds after SparkliesLuver linked to them earlier. Can anyone shed some light on how customs duties would work importing a gemstone. Hopefully it won't be too troublesome or raise the price dramatically?

 

[Art Nouveau]

Palagems has a nice 5.2 carats:
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=19734

 

[Starzin]

I know what I am looking for is extremely particular and hard to find so have allocated around 3-4 months to find the right stone. Also my preference would be a dealer I can actually go visit rather than conducting the business entirely through email/phone.

You also stated "this is harder than I thought" - be aware that what you are asking for is not easily found.

However on the plus side - you have allowed a good length of time and have a good budget to work with. The month before Christmas is also the jewellery industry's busiest time so if you miss Christmas I hope there's another special date in Jan/Feb for you Do not rush this - it will cost you a lot of money!

On the down side - wanting to visit them in NY severely limits your options. You are looking for a rare stone in a large size. What you also need is good cut and that is even rarer.

From that point of view, even as I'm writing, faceters and gem houses have millions of dollars worth of stones flying around the world - they do it every day. We don't so it's very scary

There is a saying on PS "trust but verify". That means make any purchase contingent on a report from AGL unless it already has one. AGL is the recognised premier coloured stone lab in the US. GRS is often used in Europe and also has a good reputation.

You can get any stone or ring shipped to you "for approval". You have to pay up front but can easily return it for a full refund minus shipping costs. When you get to seriously considering shipping a stone read the Return Policy of that particular vendor. Different vendors have different "return windows" i.e. the length of time you can keep it before advising them you want to return it. They may also have strict instructions about HOW to return it.

If you haven't read through Saracen's thread please do so, it may answer a lot of questions you haven't even thought of yet

Wild's are not in Thailand, they are in Idar-Oberstein, Germany. They have a reputation for handling very high end gems and a price that comes with it.

I was in fact going to post the one linked above on their ebay site as it does look good BUT you need to ask for hand shot, upside down shot and preferably video if you are contemplating this.

In addition they have this one which has some cut issues and may be very different in colour (see the GRS report those these are never quite accurate either). However it is less than half the price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-GR...9072?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item1c3180a660
To my mind this would need a pavilion recut but that would cost maybe $300 by a highly recommended faceter that many on this forum have used with excellent results. The caveat being that he needs depth to work with which this seems to have. See Jerry Newman's magic here http://www.gemartservices.com/recutting.htm and realise this is always an option. It also shows very clearly what a window is.

This 3.55ct oval is in India but looks to have a lovely colour and a very good cut. They are on our recommended vendors list and Harshil (son of owner) has posted on the forum. VIDEO
http://www.starruby.in/store/padpar...e-eye-clean-vivid-orangy-pink-padparadscha-uh

As much as it pains us to recommend The Natural Sapphire Company (NSC) - you will find good and bad reviews on PS and mostly we hate that they photoshop their pictures but they have videos of these. They are in NY so a visit may be in order to check these four out in person. Note that videos are usually flooded with light and may/may not fairly represent the stone/colour.

2.18ct unheated oval PA2363 ($11,97 - shallow but good face up size (always go by mm measurements rather than carat weight and realise sapphires usually face up smaller that other gems) and pretty colour (look at the darker bits as the stone turns). May or may not have a window it's difficult to tell because of reflection. See window at the Jerry recut link above.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...oval-padparadscha-sapphire-pa2363/#AssetData6

4.14 unheated cushion PA2034 ($17,553) - appears to have the coveted yellow/pink/orange mix but has a wonky cut which would need attention - one side shorter than the other and possible off centre culet.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...hion-padparadscha-sapphire-pa2034/#AssetData8

6.96 unheated cushion PA2202 ($17,400) - appears too yellow/brown as reflected in the price per carat but if you're going to visit you might as well take it's number and ask to see it too.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...hion-padparadscha-sapphire-pa2202/#AssetData7

3.79ct unheated oval PA2412 ($29,602) - appears a little more brownish but with pink flashes. Definitely appears to have a window (from the video not the still, that's table reflection).
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...oval-padparadscha-sapphire-pa2412/#AssetData6

There are others on the site but these appeared to be the best to my eye.

 

[Starzin]

PS - when you go to visit PLEASE take photos and post them for us to compare to the online ones - on your hand between fingers and by a window as well as under the jeweller's lights where they will all look fantastic

 

[FrekeChild]

Yuck. All of NSC's loose pads are ick. But these are kind of interesting:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...ngs/p-52992-padparadscha-sapphire-ring-j4576/

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...ngs/p-35237-padparadscha-sapphire-ring-j1468/

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...ngs/p-53502-padparadscha-sapphire-ring-j3976/

I don't remember exactly, but I think NSC will let you take stones out of their settings and either reset it for you or let you buy it loose. Might be worth asking.

 

[Starzin]

Yuck. All of NSC's loose pads are ick. But these are kind of interesting:

Tell it like it is there Freke

I thought I would trawl through them because NSC were in NY and at least the OP can have a look at a few and compare. I the settings on all three!

However the second one you posted is the second stone I linked
So would you pay $5,200 for the platinum and two diamonds?

 

[Marlow]

We should think about a thank-you-box!!!

 

[chrono]

I'm with Stazin that what you are looking for is uncommon so even a 4 month search may not be sufficient time if you are a sticker for great saturation and untreated. Be aware that the stone you are looking for could well be outside the US, so make use of the vendor's return/refund policy which is cheaper than a $2000 cattle seat to Asia. There is no import tax for gems coming into the US, so there is no concerns with additional taxes and fees.

 

[anImaru]

Wow so many pretty stones.

Will be visiting the diamond district again this weekend so will hopefully see some stones that I like. Will definitely take pictures.

Would really like to see stones in person that have the color I like at least to see how it translates to pictures/videos before I start ordering stones online to evaluate. Otherwise I feel like I might end up ordering something new every other week and returning it.

Will also need to start doing more research

 

[chrono]

When viewing the Diamond District this weekend, keep in mind that:
1. Do not accept in-house reports that are biased in favour of the store/vendor. AGL and GIA are highly reputable.
2. Many coloured stones colour shift, so do view them under many different types of light situations where possible. Many do not like fluorescent lights.

Going to see stones in person to get a feel of which colour you like best is great, but I would not use it as a benchmark in how it translates to pictures/videos because each vendor's photography method will be different and could produce different results. To decrease the craziness of ordering and returning stones, it is helpful to ask the vendor as many questions as necessary to decide whether it is the right stone for you. Once that is done and you feel confident that it is a contender, THAT is the time to order the stone for an in person review.

Hope that helps.

 

[anImaru]

Thanks for the tips. Also any advice on negotiating the price?

 

[chrono]

I know the thread linked is exhaustive but it does cover how to spot cut issues, which will come in handy.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Before beginning negotiations, you need to understand what you are seeing in the stone (colour quality, clarity, cut and etc) in order to know the price range expected and whether it is a good price, reasonable or if the vendor is smoking something strong.

 

[FrekeChild]

I know the thread linked is exhaustive but it does cover how to spot cut issues, which will come in handy.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Before beginning negotiations, you need to understand what you are seeing in the stone (colour quality, clarity, cut and etc) in order to know the price range expected and whether it is a good price, reasonable or if the vendor is smoking something strong.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Starzin]

Before beginning negotiations, you need to understand what you are seeing in the stone (colour quality, clarity, cut and etc) in order to know the price range expected and whether it is a good price, reasonable or if the vendor is smoking something strong.

In particular you need to know what a window is because so many of NSC's stones have them!

In short, if you place the stone on the back of your hand so the culet (pointy bit) rests between two fingers, you should not see a "dead" or clear spot in the middle when looking directly down at it. This is different from a tilt window which most lighter stones will have when the stone is viewed slightly off the vertical.

For instance I tried to point them out in the stones I linked and both the first and third rings that Freke linked have windows.

 

[FrekeChild]

Here you go!

 

[marymm]

Here's a 3.13ct GIA unheated Pad Sapphire - http://www.rubylane.com/item/490404-313ctPADBombe/EXTREMELY-Unheated-3-13ct-Padparadscha-Sapphire - it has obvious inclusions and cut issues but I link it as it seems to have the color you like and it does have the GIA report indicating it is an unheated Pad Sapphire - http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547 - so it may be helpful to you in terms of comparative pricing, etc.

 

[anImaru]

Yes, still looking. Can you email me any additional pictures you might have. I would be looking for the stone only however.