Orange Spessartite guidance

[GunnerM]

Hello everyone...long-time browser, first time poster...I am here because I am looking for guidance on an orange (the more brilliant the better) spessartite garnet. My problem is lack of knowledge and further research across the web is adding to my confusion. I am looking for an engagement ring and want it big enough to impress, small enough to not cause giggles....in addition, I would like guidance on the best type of ring to have it mounted. She is very athletic with skinny fingers and I was advised that you should try and get a stone that matches the woman's finger shape...thicker fingers, longer thinner stone...funny thing is that in a previous relationship she was larger with fuller fingers and the stone was a bad pick because no-one buys marquis diamonds and now I am stuck with a 1.0+ carat marquis cut diamond...

Her favorite color is orange (birthstone is a ruby, mine is a diamond)...and I was shopping for a ruby but then ran across the spessartite and was like WOW! That is soooo non-traditional, and an original idea (from my view) for an engagement ring, it screamed for it to be the center stone and either a couple really nice sized diamonds on each side or smaller diamonds in a halo...I can buy a larger center stone for what I was going to pay for a smaller ruby...but is that wise???!!!

I have been all over this site for vendors, and living in Key West, there are no reputable jewelers that caters to locals, only tourons....and all are over priced. That is why I have turned to this community....

I have seen what appeared to be identical stones in both color (we all know how pics on the web can appear vastly different) and description...but the price can be thousands of dollars in difference....

HELP?!

 

[GunnerM]

Here is an example...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERTIFIED-4-13-CT-LOUPE-CLEAN-FANTA-ORANGE-SPESSARTINE-EMERALD-/321126004216?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac499f5f8

 

[chrono]

I'll be back later tonight or tomorrow but there are 2 main comments:
1. Garnet is not a 24/7 wear stone. She must baby such a ring.
2. The ebay garnet has major cut issues and the true colour isn't as orange as shown due to picture, light and camera manipulation.

 

[GunnerM]

Really? Dang...I figured with a MOHS of 7-7.5, it would be...I just ran across the informative post that went over EVERYTHING concerning colored stones...so I need to go more for an orange sapphire

 

[chrono]

Please read this first to decide what level of treatment is acceptable to you.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/[/URL]

A good orange is a rarity in nature so finding one that is stunning and richly pure orange is going to cost major moolah. If you don't mind some yellow or some brown, the search becomes easier and kinder to the wallet. If you are open to heat treatment, then your chances of finding the right stone within the year becomes very possible.

 

[GunnerM]

Hi Chrono...thanks again for your guidance. I have no issues with heat treatment as it seems to be an industry accepted practice and I do not have a NBA/NFL/MLB contract to pay for the big natural stones....HA! Anyway, there are several stones on ebay with all the right language, clarity, lustre/luster....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140692648080?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111073606726?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-24-Carats-Natural-Fine-Gem-Oval-Orange-Yellow-Sapphire-8x6-4x4-7-mm-/270421013462?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ef65933d6

I had previously looked at $3500 for a ruby (when I was thinking ruby as is her birthstone) from a friend who is a Master Jeweler in Tampa, I was able to view and hold the ruby...it was a beauty. I want something to knock my fiancee' on her butt for thinking outside of the box...

 

[GregS]

First I'd make sure she is going to be ok with a colored stone as an engagement ring. Many women don't want anything other than a diamond.

 

[chrono]

Greg brings up a good point to find out if she's all right with a non-traditional coloured e-ring. Orange is very removed from the traditional red and blue so do your best to see what hints you can scrounge up. You don't want to knock her on her butt for choosing something she doesn't like.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140692648080?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
Cannot read the lab brief but there are too many red flags.
1. Too many red, orange and yellow sapphires from Songea are beryllium diffused.
2. Diffusion can only be detected by a handful of labs and GHI is NOT one of them as it requires very expensive specialized equipment.
3. I would love to see a close up of the GHI brief to see what it says.
4. Colour aside, this stone is windowed (see-through in the centre). An e-ring stone deserves a better cut.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111073606726?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
Even putting aside the fact that it has no proof of heat only, the pear is so windowed that you can drive a truck through it easily. A horribly cut stone! It cannot be recut either because it is too shallow to begin with.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-24-Carats-Natural-Fine-Gem-Oval-Orange-Yellow-Sapphire-8x6-4x4-7-mm-/270421013462?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ef65933d6
Sorry but the colour is more yellowish brown than orange.

You are not going to get a nice 2ct heated orange sapphire for anywhere under $1000. Not even $2000.

 

[GunnerM]

Chrono and GregS...

After reading your post....I had a shot of Jameson followed by a shot of dill pickle juice (pickleback)...I am beginning to identify gemstone/jewelry salesmen with used car salesmen....sorry, but....WTH?

 

[GunnerM]

So is this realistic ??

http://www.africagems.com/cushion-orangesapph-g2k-3894.html

 

[chrono]

Gunner,
So sorry but eBay is akin to shark infested waters unless you know what you are doing. Here's a list of vendors that have proven themselves to be honest and trustworthy for the most part as many PSers have had great experience with them.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-we-start-a-new-thread-with-respected-cs-vendors.169561/page-4']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-we-start-a-new-thread-with-respected-cs-vendors.169561/page-4[/URL]

 

[chrono]

http://www.africagems.com/cushion-orangesapph-g2k-3894.html
Honest vendor so that's a good start. Comes with a reputable lab brief is another point in your favour. Cut isn't the best but not bad either so it passes muster. Colour on the other hand....is rather brownish and the AGL brief confirms that. Boggles my mind that the vendor calls it an "exceptional orange".

 

[GunnerM]

Yeh...the orange is not that bright or vivid....guess I am looking for the vivid Fanta? I kinda think certain vendors shine a maglight/starfire behind the stone prior to pics....

 

[minousbijoux]

Yeh...the orange is not that bright or vivid....guess I am looking for the vivid Fanta? I kinda think certain vendors shine a maglight/starfire behind the stone prior to pics....

Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news, but you will not find a vivid Fanta sapphire. Unless its been diffused. Or, if its not been Be treated, unless its outrageously expensive. I have never bought from this vendor, but they sell everything from unheated to Be treated sapphires, so you can see the difference in color between them. There is one on the second sapphire page that has been fully treated and does look vivid, but many of us steer clear of diffused sapphires, because its such an invasive treatment, changing the underlying chemical composition/structure of the stone. Anyway, here's the link:

http://atggems.com/Photos_Sapphire2.htm

 

[movie zombie]

the world of color stones is more difficult to navigate than that of diamonds.

personally? I like a marquise cut diamond but I like the unusual which is also why my e-ring is an 8.18 spessartite.
I wear the ring when I leave the house and take it off when I return.
actually, even a diamond can be damaged and would benefit from being removed when doing gardening, housework, etc.

orange is NOT for everyone as an e-ring. best to make sure that is what she wants.
also, there is spess, then there is Spess, and yet again there is SPESS.
as in all things there is something for every budget.
and let the buyer beware.

you can see my spess in my avatar and do a search to find more pictures. this came up in the search I just did:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...e-jewellery-the-best-of-ps-pic-thread.109703/

I believe it was also purchased and a project in 2005 as was my stone.

good luck!

 

[Hokieman1982]

I'm going to start off by saying I know very little about how to value a gemstone but I just placed an order for a custom spessartite piece this week from my jeweler. My wife has been hinting to wanting garnet for 2nd Anniversary - I guess that's the "theme" for jewelry, and she loves the color orange so I went with it.

I talked with my jeweler about size, price, etc., and he ordered a few stones of the same size but different price ranges from one of his suppliers and had me come in and look. Prices of the 3 stones ranged from $200 to $500 for the 3 I saw and there was a huge difference in color once you lined them up. The cheaper one was almost a brownish color, the middle one a peachy-orange, and the more expensive a really deep/fire orange. All were same same size/karat. I chose the peachy-orange just because that's typical of the color my wife would prefer.

I guess what I'm saying is you should have your jeweler bring in some examples or go to a supplier and take a look in person to decide which shade of orange you like, plus lighting. To me, a novice, the value in a gemstone is how it looks on the wearer and the with the setting. I'm not investing in the stone so I wasn't too worried about a resale value. Since you're thinking about this for an engagement ring that will be worn everyday that's probably even more important.

Good luck!

 

[AGBF]

you can see my spess in my avatar and do a search to find more pictures. this came up in the search I just did:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...e-jewellery-the-best-of-ps-pic-thread.109703/

I believe it was also purchased and a project in 2005 as was my stone.

I remember the rush to buy orange spessartite in 2005. I especially remember the poster mineminemine, who loved orange stones. Between her and MZ, I actually bought a small spessartite ring in 24K gold by Gurhan and matching earrings, although I had never before thought that I would wear orange! (But I did not have to search for a special stone as you are!)

This is another 2005 thread you may want to view:

Another orange spess thread...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mine-my-own-my.28327/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mine-my-own-my.28327/[/URL]

Deb/AGBF

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[movie zombie]

thanks, Deb: I just could not remember her name! yes, Mine and I were looking at spess at the same time. she went with concave and I with faceted. we both went high end vendors and high end stones. and we both were very hands on with our e-rings! very different looks but both very orange.

 

[GunnerM]

Ok...how about these...bottom photos are an orange sapphire on the right (7.9 X 6.3 mm oval, VVS clarity, 2.10 carats) and a darker 3.58 ct spessartite on the left....and the top photo is a Fanta orange Mandarin spessartite at 2.15 cts....I would like the sapphire but less stone more money (not close the the $3000-$6000 range I am seeing so what such a variance??....and women know SAPPHIRE not SPESSARTITE ....

 

[GunnerM]

First of all, thanks everyone for your guidance...I just posted some photos as visiting a jeweler isn't really feasible....the jeweler who provided me with photos is several hundred miles away....here in Key West, there really aren't any reputable jewelers as all seem to be scam jobs for the foreign cruise ship tourists....everyone I talk to who are a local go to the mainland...

 

[movie zombie]

I feel your pain!
in 2005 spess just wasn't heard of....and still isn't.
I saw a $2500 spess at a local jeweler's that was windowed and didn't have the color or the crystal....and they seemed to be quite proud about having it. smaller than my 8.18 as well.
I'm in California.
my spess came from Richard Wise in new York.....who I have never met nor have I visited his store.
however, I spoke with him on the phone and by e-mail.
he commands premium prices because you're paying for his "eye'.
however, I have yet to see a spess that matches mine.......in all regards: size, crystal, color, cut, etc.
then to make matters worse I couldn't find someone to set my stone as I wanted and it ended up going to Hawaii to be mounted. sigh. a very well traveled Nigerian spess!

spess is not a 24/7 stone. it does not have the MOH of a sapphire. however, even sapphire can be chipped/cracked as can diamond.

top spess would be my first choice.
I actually like the redder spess! but it isn't going to look "orange" and its going to be darker. still lovely and I wouldn't turn it down.
the orange sapphire isn't my thing at all.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Any chance your intended might like the marquise set with Spess accent stones? As a halo? Trilliants on the side? I can think of a few ways to make this work! But if she deosn't like marquise shapes, then, well...it was just a suggestion.
BTW, marquise can be set a number of ways to flatter different finger "shapes/sizes"....

cheers--Sharon

 

[GunnerM]

Hi canuk-gal...she will not accept a stone from a previous relationship...that why trying to get rid of...If anyone is interested...

LDS Bridal Set 14KT Yellow Gold Mounting 6 Prong Set with a 1.08 Marquis (Fantasy) Cut Diamond, H color, VS2 clarity, 14 Channel Set Straight Baguette C Diamonds, TW .75 CTS, H-I, SI1 and a 14KT Yellow Gold Shadow Band. 1.00 MM Wide, 1.60 Grams....

This info was taken from the jeweler info sheet provided to insurance company....

 

[movie zombie]

i'm not a fan of spess as side stones.....
and I understand her not wanting to accept a diamond purchased for a prior love...................
doesn't have to be rational because an e-ring is an emotional thing, imo.
i'm glad you aren't trying to force it on her.

 

[chrono]

Many of us make huge purchases long distance but we are cautious as to who we buy from and the vendor's policies. The stone in my avatar was purchased from a vendor in Tanzania, Africa whilst I am in the USA. I've also wired several $K to Israel for a coloured diamond. Why was I not afraid? Because of a good return policy and the vendors have earned their reputation IRL and online.

All right...why is the spessartite less expensive? Because they need a lot of care. No ultrasonic. No steamer. Do not wear the ring to do housework. Bang it against a cabinet and you might chip it. It is not a hardy stone but if worn with care, you can wear it everyday, just not 24/7. I wear my garnet to work, make sure I'm doing a desk job that day, wear it home and remove it right as soon as I step through the door. On the day where I "make my rounds", I do not wear my garnet to lessen the risk of damage.

As for the pictures, I do not have a reference colour because of the background. A hand shot (stones on the back of the hand) is more useful. The orange one has a good sized window. I fear the reddish one might be too dark.

 

[GunnerM]

Many of us make huge purchases long distance but we are cautious as to who we buy from and the vendor's policies. The stone in my avatar was purchased from a vendor in Tanzania, Africa whilst I am in the USA. I've also wired several $K to Israel for a coloured diamond. Why was I not afraid? Because of a good return policy and the vendors have earned their reputation IRL and online.

All right...why is the spessartite less expensive? Because they need a lot of care. No ultrasonic. No steamer. Do not wear the ring to do housework. Bang it against a cabinet and you might chip it. It is not a hardy stone but if worn with care, you can wear it everyday, just not 24/7. I wear my garnet to work, make sure I'm doing a desk job that day, wear it home and remove it right as soon as I step through the door. On the day where I "make my rounds", I do not wear my garnet to lessen the risk of damage.

As for the pictures, I do not have a reference colour because of the background. A hand shot (stones on the back of the hand) is more useful. The orange one has a good sized window. I fear the reddish one might be too dark.

Hi Chrono...I cannot count on her remembering to take it off prior to watering the garden or some other type of housework (not that she does alot to begin with...HA!)...that is why I will most likely go with a sapphire...

 

[chrono]

I concur that a sapphire is definitely a better choice then.

 

[GregS]

I like the color of the sapphire, too bad it has cut issues...

 

[movie zombie]

eliminating a "window" is pricey........regardless of stone type.

taking my rings off when I get home is easy-peasy. putting them on when I leave is usually easy as well. the only ring I wear 24/7 and even when gardening is my 18k gold 2mm wedding band.

take care with a sapphire.
understand the differences in treatments.

I think there is a lot more dishonest representations happening with sapphire, especially the non-blue types.

good luck!

 

[minousbijoux]

Have you shared with us the level of sapphire treatment that would be acceptable to you? That will help a lot. As I said in an earlier post, the vast majority of bright orange sapphires will have been by lattice/Berylium diffusion. If you are willing to accept a sapphire with this level of treatment, you will have more options and the stone will cost significantly less than one with no heat or heat only as treatment.