LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers...

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Yes. Also, don't confuse tone with saturation. You can have a medium toned stone with vivid saturation and you can have a medium dark stone with low saturation, so the two are to a very large degree, separate. Just because you want a medium light to medium toned stone, does not necessarily mean you have to dispense with a high level of saturation.

Now one more time - you are looking for an oval at least 6mm wide and 8mm long, or am I confusing you with someone else?

Okay, I think I was using them interchangeably (bad CSer) so thanks for clarifying that. I am looking for medium light to medium toned blue/green with vivid saturation. Is the degree of saturation or the tone going to be what makes a stone more expensive/rare?

I am not entirely opposed to ovals but was initially looking more toward rectangular cuts. 8x6 I think is my minimum sweet spot. I think nielseel may have also been looking for an oval that size but I thought she found something already.

Okay, this helps.

Now to confuse things a bit. You know how I said that saturation and tone are separate? Well, while they are, it gets more complicated the lighter the gem color. There are few examples of light colored stones with vivid saturation (actually, none come to mind right now), because the lighter the tone, the less color it necessarily has and therefore saturation is impacted. If, for example, you take a light yellow stone and start adding dye, it will get more saturated in color until it can no longer be considered light in tone. While it will still be yellow, it will swing into being medium in tone due to the increased intensity of color, or saturation. You hopefully understand what I'm trying to convey. So that being said, you want a medium light to medium toned stone with as strong a saturation is possible, within your budget. I added the last part because yes, the stronger the saturation, the greater the price, unfortunately.

Yep, that makes perfect sense! Thanks for teasing it all out I feel like classic Paraiba tourmalines are the best example of a light tone but with vivid saturation, no? If only we all had buckets of money (or Paraibas )

 

[chrono]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

The 3 JD stones you posted are both light in tone and saturation, even with the fancy photography. Knowing that, you'll note that there is a huge premium on his work. The tourmaline linked is more than $1000/ct!

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

The 3 JD stones you posted are both light in tone and saturation, even with the fancy photography. Knowing that, you'll note that there is a huge premium on his work. The tourmaline linked is more than $1000/ct!

How can you tell they are lighter saturated despite the photography? I don't think I am prepared to spend that premium on CS yet as I am just starting...but am still trying to get a feel for what I like/should be looking for. At the price point though, I was also pretty sure no one else would swoop in and snatch it from under me quite yet lol. (Although, it's definitely less expensive than a diamond of that size ) The more I stare at it though, the more I'm in love with that aqua! I don't think I would have any space for sidestones with that baby though

 

[chrono]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

In the cool colour range, the lower the saturation, the grayer the gem looks.

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Not sure if I see the gray now only because you pointed it out, or if I can truly see what you're talking about. Need to train my eye better!

 

[LD]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Panda - zircon is unlikely to have a mix of blue/green. It'll be much more blue. Apatite you will see the blue/green in some stones but in others it'll be more blue (similar to zircon).

If you're more interested in just the blue and forgetting about seeing green then I would definitely speak with Gene. I bought my lovely blue zircon from him (see below).

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Just a quick note...there is a huge difference in hardness between Apatite and even Zircon. Apatite is only a 5 on Mohs...which is much, much softer than Zircon, Tourmaline, etc.

 

[LD]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Just a quick note...there is a huge difference in hardness between Apatite and even Zircon. Apatite is only a 5 on Mohs...which is much, much softer than Zircon, Tourmaline, etc.

Not correct. Please see graph below for perspective.

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Panda - zircon is unlikely to have a mix of blue/green. It'll be much more blue. Apatite you will see the blue/green in some stones but in others it'll be more blue (similar to zircon).

If you're more interested in just the blue and forgetting about seeing green then I would definitely speak with Gene. I bought my lovely blue zircon from him (see below).

Ooh I love that too. I think I will need both eventually!! But first I want to find a blue green. Love yours and I'm glad to see a way to set that type of outline without a bezel but still appreciate the shape!

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Just a quick note...there is a huge difference in hardness between Apatite and even Zircon. Apatite is only a 5 on Mohs...which is much, much softer than Zircon, Tourmaline, etc.

Not correct. Please see graph below for perspective.

?? That graph shows apatite as 5 and tourm as 7 which is what I also believed to be true

 

[LD]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Just a quick note...there is a huge difference in hardness between Apatite and even Zircon. Apatite is only a 5 on Mohs...which is much, much softer than Zircon, Tourmaline, etc.

Not correct. Please see graph below for perspective.

?? That graph shows apatite as 5 and tourm as 7 which is what I also believed to be true

The MOHS scale is simply a 1-10 scale and people think it goes up in equal steps of hardness. It doesn't. You need to understand ACTUAL hardness. So ............if you look at the MOHS of diamonds (10) and then corundum (9) on the MOHS scale it seems like they're close BUT look at the ACTUAL hardness and you'll see there's no comparison!

The difference between a 5 and a 7 on the MOHS scale in reality when comparing hardness is not huge.

 

[Catmom]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

There are a few zircons out there that have a touch of green. I have two of them. It is a very hard color to find in zircon. I had a jeweler looking forever for one to match my ring and she couldn't do it. Luckily hubby worked with the jeweler that made my ring and she was able to find one that was pretty close in color. I wish it photographed better but it seems the green tint washes out in my pictures.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

My zircons have a tiny bit of green in it as well. My phone was picking up more blue so they're not entirely accurate, but here they are. Love them!

 

[chrono]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

I coveted this for the longest time, then finally let it go.

 

[Catmom]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Chrono, that reminds me of this JD one I've had my eye on, only this one is a little greener I think............

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

So whats the difference between "True hardness" and the Mohs scale? I mean why does it not go up incrementally and in equal amounts between scale numbers? Is it like the Richter scale for earthquakes?

 

[LD]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

The MOHS scale compares minerals against each other and whether they can scratch another or not (in very simple terms).

I've taken this from Wiki which probably describes it better than I can:

The Mohs scale is a purely ordinal scale. For example, corundum (9) is twice as hard as topaz (, but diamond (10) is four times as hard as corundum.

On Wiki they have another table that demonstrates actual hardness and you'll see how it's not an equal hardness between each MOHS (hope that makes sense).

What you may also find interesting is where metals we use in jewellery are on the MOHS scale:-

Gold = 2.5 - 3
Silver = 2.5 - 3
Aluminium = 2.5 - 3
Copper = 3
Iron = 4
Nickel = 4
Platinum = 4 - 4.5 (same as Apatite)
Steel = 4 - 4.5
Palladium = 5
Tungsten = 7.5 - 8 (same as Spinel)

So, the MOHS scale is useful as a scratchability index. Of course there are other variables such as cleavage etc that affect the durability of a gemstone and suitability for jewellery.

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Just a quick note...there is a huge difference in hardness between Apatite and even Zircon. Apatite is only a 5 on Mohs...which is much, much softer than Zircon, Tourmaline, etc.

Not correct. Please see graph below for perspective.

?? That graph shows apatite as 5 and tourm as 7 which is what I also believed to be true

The MOHS scale is simply a 1-10 scale and people think it goes up in equal steps of hardness. It doesn't. You need to understand ACTUAL hardness. So ............if you look at the MOHS of diamonds (10) and then corundum (9) on the MOHS scale it seems like they're close BUT look at the ACTUAL hardness and you'll see there's no comparison!

The difference between a 5 and a 7 on the MOHS scale in reality when comparing hardness is not huge.

Oooh okay I see what you are saying now. Not sure how I didn't know that before! Thanks for clarifying.

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Catmom and FK... drool!!!! I see there is hope for getting that saturation with the turquoise hue. Love them!!

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Both of mine came from ebay! I have a zircon/diamond ring on my ebay watch list, are you interested? I can pm you on fb.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Both of mine came from ebay! I have a zircon/diamond ring on my ebay watch list, are you interested? I can pm you on fb.

Say yes, say yes, say yes! No one can find deals like FK!!!

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Both of mine came from ebay! I have a zircon/diamond ring on my ebay watch list, are you interested? I can pm you on fb.

Ooh yes pretty please with a snickers salad on top!!! Pm away!!

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Sent! But it said it's going in the "Other" folder so you gotta check there!

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Sent! But it said it's going in the "Other" folder so you gotta check there!

got it thanks! Will do some perusing

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Alright, so a bit of turn of events. I have reached out to Gene at least (with my hodge podge of what I am looking for) but ForteKitty was kind enough to turn me onto zircons so I found a few pretty ones! Any thoughts on this ring? I think it may be overpriced but unfortunately the pictures are kind of dark. I've asked the seller for daylight photos and will hopefully get those this evening. Colorwise this one seems lighter than I had originally wanted but I do think it is pretty






Have also find quite a few zircons and also some apatite on AJsgems...anyone have experience with them? Haven't emailed Peter yet but is there someone better I should be going through?

As for the stone switch, I've been told (and I recall reading this) that even though tourmaline is higher on the Moh's scale it is more brittle than zircon or apatite...colorwise I think I am still looking for the same thing so a lighter blue zircon with some hint of green or a darker apatite. I do appreciate the rainbow refractiveness of zircon but I like the glowiness of apatite too.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

I've had issues with tourmalines and not zircons, but I think zircons are supposed to be more brittle? Not sure why most my tourmalines have chipped and my zircons are fine though! Apatite is definitely way too easy to damage in a ring and I wouldn't get one, as beautiful as they are.

 

[pandabee]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

I've had issues with tourmalines and not zircons, but I think zircons are supposed to be more brittle? Not sure why most my tourmalines have chipped and my zircons are fine though! Apatite is definitely way too easy to damage in a ring and I wouldn't get one, as beautiful as they are.

Ah that may have been what I was trying to say...does brittleness not equate to ease of chipping?

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

I love that ring! The setting is elegant and classic - I love it. That said, I would worry that the stone is too unprotected and would be damaged pretty quickly.

You're right that the color is hard to read, but it doesn't appear to have that high level of saturation that most blue zircons do.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

What price range is the ring in?

I have a spinel from AJS, and I thought they were awesome to work with! Rung was great.

Tourmalines seem to chip/break easier, but zircons seem to abrade. What kind of climate do you live in? Dry/dusty? Humid?

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: LD, FrekeChild, and other blue and blue/green gem lovers

Ah that may have been what I was trying to say...does brittleness not equate to ease of chipping?

It's supposed to, but I've experienced otherwise. I've dropped zircons on concrete and they were fine, but when I tapped my tourmaline ring into a piece of glass lightly, a piece chipped off the crown. I already had my hand on the door handle and was pulling the door open towards me when my ring, which was a little big, rolled towards the glass and they met. Chip! Tourmalines hate me but I still love them. Just can't wear them on my hand!