Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapphire

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Yes - there was much discussion in the gem world here about the actual look of the stone in person.

I would have been suprised if Garrads had stocked a complete dud, but my understanding is that it is much nicer than it looks but definitely not world class.

Then again, I doubt £28k would have bought world-class even then. I know diamonds were outrageously expensive in the early '80's, but haven't a clue what the sapphire market was like at the time.

Personally I was disappointed that Kate didn't get a different ring - I was hoping to see a nice emerald... or even, given their Kenyan engagement, something like a tsavorite or other more unusual stone.

 

[T L]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Yes - there was much discussion in the gem world here about the actual look of the stone in person.

I would have been suprised if Garrads had stocked a complete dud, but my understanding is that it is much nicer than it looks but definitely not world class.

Then again, I doubt £28k would have bought world-class even then. I know diamonds were outrageously expensive in the early '80's, but haven't a clue what the sapphire market was like at the time.

Personally I was disappointed that Kate didn't get a different ring - I was hoping to see a nice emerald... or even, given their Kenyan engagement, something like a tsavorite or other more unusual stone.

Then this would become the "tsavorite subforum" and tsavorite prices would be through the roof.

 

[PrincessCath]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

And Charles didn't pay $100,000 for Diana's sapphire. I believe it was 30,000 pounds and change then. Regardless of price, I far prefer Beyonce's.

I think in US. money, it came to around $80K from what I heard. I just rounded up to $100K because I wasn't sure and I accounted for inflation.

Right now the GBP is only slightly higher than the $, but I checked the exchange rate, and indeed indeed at the time the GBP was much higher, over $2, so it would have been close to $60,000.

The story I heard (no guarantees) is that Charles had Garrard bring a tray of rings at Windsor, and Diana picked this one on the spot. Maybe she liked dark sapphires, or the lighting was not good, or she was intimidated and picked one at random. I also read that she picked it because it reminded her of her mother's e-ring. No good vibes there, because her parents had divorced when she was little.

As for William recycling it, I don't know. It obviously has a tremendous sentimental value (and also monetary value because of its association with Diana) but I see the merits of a fresh start, and a prettier stone.

 

[LD]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Yes - there was much discussion in the gem world here about the actual look of the stone in person.

I would have been suprised if Garrads had stocked a complete dud, but my understanding is that it is much nicer than it looks but definitely not world class.

Then again, I doubt £28k would have bought world-class even then. I know diamonds were outrageously expensive in the early '80's, but haven't a clue what the sapphire market was like at the time.

Personally I was disappointed that Kate didn't get a different ring - I was hoping to see a nice emerald... or even, given their Kenyan engagement, something like a tsavorite or other more unusual stone.

Then this would become the "tsavorite subforum" and tsavorite prices would be through the roof.

How very true!

 

[Barrett]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

woe is me...after reading one of my fav posters and friends(Pandora) got into it over Kate's ring I had to go search the annals and see for myself.
"The good Lord knows I like me some controversy"
Is this the same 22 page thread where the lady post copious amounts of pictures of extinct sapphires and the royal couple.
Takes up 2-3 pages at a time before another soul post?
ugghhh...so much mis- and dis-information.
Poor Pandora could have laid into her but choose not to..took the high road...LOL
Then poor Harriet got jumped on...LOL
She clearly says "I am a long time student of gemology" yet doesn't seem to have anything good to say as her opinions are clearly not those of someone who knows what she is talking about...having been a long time gemology student.
She thinks that Sri lanka(ceylon) produces the "ceylon color" and that is the top color for that location and so on and so forth with the other main sapphires spots..LOL....LOLOL ...LOL...
She is starstruck and it clouds her judgement..
oh..that and the fact she bought a replica, which, of course, makes it the best color
[puts hands on hips.."and since I bought it that makes it the top color"]

I wish I had seen that thread so I couold have jumped in..'cause the good Lord knows I dislike mis-information and extinct stones.
The lower the extinction the better the "life" and brillance and overall quality of the gemstone

EXAMPLE FOR A BLUE SAPPHIRE:

Less than 20% extinction = excellent life of color
20% to 30% extinction = very good life of color
30% to 50% extinction = good life of color
40% to 60% extinction = medium life of color
60% to 80% extinction = poor life of color
More than 80% extinction = very poor life of color

Kate's ring would fall into the 60-80% or the more than 80%

 

[T L]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

And Charles didn't pay $100,000 for Diana's sapphire. I believe it was 30,000 pounds and change then. Regardless of price, I far prefer Beyonce's.

I think in US. money, it came to around $80K from what I heard. I just rounded up to $100K because I wasn't sure and I accounted for inflation.

Right now the GBP is only slightly higher than the $, but I checked the exchange rate, and indeed indeed at the time the GBP was much higher, over $2, so it would have been close to $60,000.

The story I heard (no guarantees) is that Charles had Garrard bring a tray of rings at Windsor, and Diana picked this one on the spot. Maybe she liked dark sapphires, or the lighting was not good, or she was intimidated and picked one at random. I also read that she picked it because it reminded her of her mother's e-ring. No good vibes there, because her parents had divorced when she was little.

As for William recycling it, I don't know. It obviously has a tremendous sentimental value (and also monetary value because of its association with Diana) but I see the merits of a fresh start, and a prettier stone.

When I first started collecting gems over 20 years ago, I used to pick out overly dark toned stones because I confused dark tone with fine saturation. Actually, I notice a lot of beginning collectors do that as well. My guess was that Diana probably wasn't a gem connoisseur at the time, and didn't know any better. She probably liked it too because as you said, it reminded her of her mother's ring. I think someone like Richard Burton would have scoffed at that stone. Kate also probably thinks it's the best sapphire in the world, as she never wore much jewelry (until now), and probably has no idea either. Oh well, as you say, it does have tremendous sentimental value, but yes, it would have been nice if he gave her a new ring.

 

[T L]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

woe is me...after reading one of my fav posters and friends(Pandora) got into it over Kate's ring I had to go search the annals and see for myself.
"The good Lord knows I like me some controversy"
Is this the same 22 page thread where the lady post copious amounts of pictures of extinct sapphires and the royal couple.
Takes up 2-3 pages at a time before another soul post?
ugghhh...so much mis- and dis-information.
Poor Pandora could have laid into her but choose not to..took the high road...LOL
Then poor Harriet got jumped on...LOL
She clearly says "I am a long time student of gemology" yet doesn't seem to have anything good to say as her opinions are clearly not those of someone who knows what she is talking about...having been a long time gemology student.
She thinks that Sri lanka(ceylon) produces the "ceylon color" and that is the top color for that location and so on and so forth with the other main sapphires spots..LOL....LOLOL ...LOL...
She is starstruck and it clouds her judgement..
oh..that and the fact she bought a replica, which, of course, makes it the best color
[puts hands on hips.."and since I bought it that makes it the top color"]

I wish I had seen that thread so I couold have jumped in..'cause the good Lord knows I dislike mis-information and extinct stones.
The lower the extinction the better the "life" and brillance and overall quality of the gemstone

EXAMPLE FOR A BLUE SAPPHIRE:

Less than 20% extinction = excellent life of color
20% to 30% extinction = very good life of color
30% to 50% extinction = good life of color
40% to 60% extinction = medium life of color
60% to 80% extinction = poor life of color
More than 80% extinction = very poor life of color

Kate's ring would fall into the 60-80% or the more than 80%

This is the thread I think you're thinking of. I'm including the link here because there's a lot more photos of the Kate/Diana ring, and I think this new thread is very informative about sapphire quality in general. As for the OP of the below thread, she's obviously proud of her ring, which is a good thing. We should love our jewelry.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/william-and-kate-and-dianas-ring.152544/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/william-and-kate-and-dianas-ring.152544/[/URL]

Although we might not agree on the quality of the Kate/Diana sapphire, it was time consuming and nice that she compiled all those photographs in the above thread. I do like some of the examples she posted of other sapphire jewelry.

As for the Royal Jewels thread, that is a wonderful and informative thread, but mostly a photography thread, and not as much 'quality' commentary on the pieces themselves.

 

[Barrett]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Yes, she did a great job with all the photos! Took lots of time to do that. It's a great thread to scroll through with all the pics...took me 20 minutes to do so.

She documented and posted some great pics I have never seen before. She did good!

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

I agree that a lot of hard work went into that thread - but Harriet and I had to sit on our hands eventually. Rarely have I seen so much XXXX posted as fact though!

I guess I might have also checked out someone with as many posts as Harriet before giving her a very inaccurate lecture on coloured stones...

 

[LD]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Having just read through the first 10 pages of the thread I decided not to go any further as it was, frankly, annoying me.

Pandora my thoughts on Diana mirror yours exactly. I can say that I too have been privy to some "behind the scenes" information and ...... well, you know it too. I have no idea how she has become so high on this pedestal!

Anyway, apart from the Diana loving the thread had some fantastic photos - I was particularly intrigued to see Camilla's e-ring. I've not seen that before and would be happy to own that one day!

 

[Owies Nana]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

woe is me...after reading one of my fav posters and friends(Pandora) got into it over Kate's ring I had to go search the annals and see for myself.
"The good Lord knows I like me some controversy"
Is this the same 22 page thread where the lady post copious amounts of pictures of extinct sapphires and the royal couple.
Takes up 2-3 pages at a time before another soul post?
ugghhh...so much mis- and dis-information.
Poor Pandora could have laid into her but choose not to..took the high road...LOL
Then poor Harriet got jumped on...LOL
She clearly says "I am a long time student of gemology" yet doesn't seem to have anything good to say as her opinions are clearly not those of someone who knows what she is talking about...having been a long time gemology student.
She thinks that Sri lanka(ceylon) produces the "ceylon color" and that is the top color for that location and so on and so forth with the other main sapphires spots..LOL....LOLOL ...LOL...
She is starstruck and it clouds her judgement..
oh..that and the fact she bought a replica, which, of course, makes it the best color
[puts hands on hips.."and since I bought it that makes it the top color"]

I wish I had seen that thread so I couold have jumped in..'cause the good Lord knows I dislike mis-information and extinct stones.
The lower the extinction the better the "life" and brillance and overall quality of the gemstone
EXAMPLE FOR A BLUE SAPPHIRE:

Less than 20% extinction = excellent life of color
20% to 30% extinction = very good life of color
30% to 50% extinction = good life of color
40% to 60% extinction = medium life of color
60% to 80% extinction = poor life of color
More than 80% extinction = very poor life of color

Kate's ring would fall into the 60-80% or the more than 80%

For us newbies to CS, please explain: what is "extinction"?

 

[LD]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Extinction in layman terms is when a gem "blacks out" - so basically you see more black than you do the gem's actual colour.

You can read about it here: http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/brilliance_windows_extinction.htm

 

[Barrett]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Great examples, LD!!

I feel I sounded a little to harsh on my post above about her. I am sorry for that. At the time it didn't sound as much so but after rereading it I feel like I did. Just wanted to make that known.
Many times I forget that most people are not as knowledgeable or understanding of things like extinction, color, treatments, etc. and I tend to jump on people for that, which is wrong. I used to be that way as well as everyone else. I have to remember that not everyone is on the same page. Sorry

 

[T L]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

I agree that a lot of hard work went into that thread - but Harriet and I had to sit on our hands eventually. Rarely have I seen so much XXXX posted as fact though!

I guess I might have also checked out someone with as many posts as Harriet before giving her a very inaccurate lecture on coloured stones...

Unfortunately, that is quite the case in the jewelry industry as well, as so many dealers (not all dealers, but many), have no clue as to what makes 'top color' in any particular gem species/hue. Many of them have their GG too. *sigh*

I am guilty, as I didn't read much in that thread, and only really looked at the eye candy. I also enjoy looking at photos of Diana, no matter what opinions others have of her. To me, she had such a smile, and lit up a room, despite what her true character may have been like.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Great examples, LD!!

I feel I sounded a little to harsh on my post above about her. I am sorry for that. At the time it didn't sound as much so but after rereading it I feel like I did. Just wanted to make that known.
Many times I forget that most people are not as knowledgeable or understanding of things like extinction, color, treatments, etc. and I tend to jump on people for that, which is wrong. I used to be that way as well as everyone else. I have to remember that not everyone is on the same page. Sorry

Actually I don't think you need to apologise at all. She held herself out to be a long-time student of gemmology, insinuated that she was a qualified gemmologist and called others out on their professional credentials. If you do that then it should be expected that you have a good grounding in all the things you have mentioned above. If you in fact talk nonsense then expect to be called on it...

 

[LD]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Great examples, LD!!

I feel I sounded a little to harsh on my post above about her. I am sorry for that. At the time it didn't sound as much so but after rereading it I feel like I did. Just wanted to make that known.
Many times I forget that most people are not as knowledgeable or understanding of things like extinction, color, treatments, etc. and I tend to jump on people for that, which is wrong. I used to be that way as well as everyone else. I have to remember that not everyone is on the same page. Sorry

Actually I don't think you need to apologise at all. She held herself out to be a long-time student of gemmology, insinuated that she was a qualified gemmologist and called others out on their professional credentials. If you do that then it should be expected that you have a good grounding in all the things you have mentioned above. If you in fact talk nonsense then expect to be called on it...

I was just about to write exactly the same thing. I don't think you were harsh Jason. There were so many points stated as fact that were clearly erroneous. Unfortunately without challenges they become fact!

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

I agree that a lot of hard work went into that thread - but Harriet and I had to sit on our hands eventually. Rarely have I seen so much XXXX posted as fact though!

I guess I might have also checked out someone with as many posts as Harriet before giving her a very inaccurate lecture on coloured stones...

Unfortunately, that is quite the case in the jewelry industry as well, as so many dealers (not all dealers, but many), have no clue as to what makes 'top color' in any particular gem species/hue. Many of them have their GG too. *sigh*

I am guilty, as I didn't read much in that thread, and only really looked at the eye candy. I also enjoy looking at photos of Diana, no matter what opinions others have of her. To me, she had such a smile, and lit up a room, despite what her true character may have been like.

TL, it was way worse than that, believe me...

I also like looking at the eye candy - baubles and princesses. I don't have a real problem with Diana - certainly don't hate her or anything like that, I just don't care for the pedestal or quasi-beatification in light of the extreme damage she did to the Monarchy and her behaviour that was far from fitting for a member of the Royal Family and the mother of the future British Monarch. However, she did very many admirable things that should be celebrated and she was obviously a much adored mother to those little boys.

 

[yanaazul]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Mmmm, back to Beyonce's delicious ring, yes? I found a higher resolution pic, and cropped it so the upload process doesn't shrink it.



(Upload process washes out the color of sapphire and dress. Linky for original: http://cdn.babble.com/famecrawler/files/2012/02/6833838925_83395bb757_b.jpg)

 

[PrincessCath]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

I think someone like Richard Burton would have scoffed at that stone.

LOL yes! But then Burton would never have dared spend 28,000 GBP on a ring for the late Liz Taylor. She would have killed him... What extraordinary gem collectors and connaisseurs those two were.

 

[Smith1940]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

How wonderful to find this thread! I love discussion about Diana's ring and I have no one in real life who cares about jewelry matters like I do! Full disclosure: I am only an enthusiast, not an expert.

I am English and came to the States five years ago. (Are you impressed with my American spelling on this post?) I am fascinated by this ring. I didn't know it was considered to be a stone of less than top quality. It was an interesting point made by someone that the English prefer darker navy sapphires and that they go well with fair English skin. Well, in my case both of those things are true. I thought Diana's (now Kate's) sapphire is the true hue, so to speak, and it's the color I've seen most at home. To me, lighter and more vibrant sapphires look either a) a little fake or b) like another stone - iolite or tanzanite. For me, the sober navy sapphire is the point of reference and I find it a very tasteful color. Probably I like it because that shade happens to really suit me. It's all personal taste - another poster refuted the theory about we English and our navy sapphires!

I can see that Beyonce's sapphire is a beautiful shade, but to me it just doesn't look real. I wouldn't have thought it was a sapphire, or I would assume it had been terribly enhanced.

 

[PrincessCath]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

How wonderful to find this thread!
I thought Diana's (now Kate's) sapphire is the true hue, so to speak, and it's the color I've seen most at home. To me, lighter and more vibrant sapphires look either a) a little fake or b) like another stone - iolite or tanzanite. For me, the sober navy sapphire is the point of reference and I find it a very tasteful color. Probably I like it because that shade happens to really suit me. It's all personal taste - another poster refuted the theory about we English and our navy sapphires!

I can see that Beyonce's sapphire is a beautiful shade, but to me it just doesn't look real. I wouldn't have thought it was a sapphire, or I would assume it had been terribly enhanced.

I guess the dark sapphires are the most common the world over because they are less expensive than vibrant ones like Beyonce's gorgeous stone. And you are right, I have a light blue sapphire and people mistake it for a tanzanite, even though it has no purplish tinge at all. Personally I find both the too dark and the too light very dull (in fact, I am looking to replace mine) but it's all a matter of taste.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

LD and I are both Brits in the UK.

The main reason for always seeing dark navy stones here is because they are cheap and readily available. Once you start looking at the medium blues prices can rise very, very quickly and sourcing can become trickier.

With there being certain price points for e-rings in particular in the UK it was in the interests of a lot of jewellers to rave about the dark stones - less hassle and whopping great margins for them. You can pick up a very dark stone for maybe £15/ct wholesale whereas you're talking hundreds or even thousands a carat for a really good blue blue. No brainer really - and then Diana put the royal seal of approval on it all.

Interestingly, the mainstream jewellers rarely stock natural anymore - it's all lab created rubies, emeralds and sapphires now.

Some people will like the dark stones because that it their preference, just as some love the very light blues. And that is great, but it annoys me to see the dark ones being pushed as ideal - especially when some of those jewellers buy their wives a very different colour from what they sell!

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

LD and I are both Brits in the UK.

The main reason for always seeing dark navy stones here is because they are cheap and readily available. Once you start looking at the medium blues prices can rise very, very quickly and sourcing can become trickier.

With there being certain price points for e-rings in particular in the UK it was in the interests of a lot of jewellers to rave about the dark stones - less hassle and whopping great margins for them. You can pick up a very dark stone for maybe £15/ct wholesale whereas you're talking hundreds or even thousands a carat for a really good blue blue. No brainer really - and then Diana put the royal seal of approval on it all.

Interestingly, the mainstream jewellers rarely stock natural anymore - it's all lab created rubies, emeralds and sapphires now.

Some people will like the dark stones because that it their preference, just as some love the very light blues. And that is great, but it annoys me to see the dark ones being pushed as ideal - especially when some of those jewellers buy their wives a very different colour from what they sell!

A look at the great auction houses' catalogs also tell this tale.

 

[T L]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

How wonderful to find this thread!
I thought Diana's (now Kate's) sapphire is the true hue, so to speak, and it's the color I've seen most at home. To me, lighter and more vibrant sapphires look either a) a little fake or b) like another stone - iolite or tanzanite. For me, the sober navy sapphire is the point of reference and I find it a very tasteful color. Probably I like it because that shade happens to really suit me. It's all personal taste - another poster refuted the theory about we English and our navy sapphires!

I can see that Beyonce's sapphire is a beautiful shade, but to me it just doesn't look real. I wouldn't have thought it was a sapphire, or I would assume it had been terribly enhanced.

I guess the dark sapphires are the most common the world over because they are less expensive than vibrant ones like Beyonce's gorgeous stone. And you are right, I have a light blue sapphire and people mistake it for a tanzanite, even though it has no purplish tinge at all. Personally I find both the too dark and the too light very dull (in fact, I am looking to replace mine) but it's all a matter of taste.

Some sapphires do look like tanzanites, as do some violet spinels. I have several violet spinels that people think are tanzanite all the time. When you say "spinel," they look at you with a distant blank stare. LOL!

When tanzanite first got into the mainstream, they were first touted as a great "sapphire substitute" because you could buy a beautiful blue or violet blue color for a lot less than the same color in sapphire. Back then, the quality of tanzanite was a bit better, and you saw many beautifully colored gems. Unfortunately, for tanzanite, it cannot touch sapphire in terms of durability.

Nowadays, because of Diana and this royal sapphire craze, there are so many super dark blue sapphires on the market, that I would probably be insulted if a novice thought my spinels were sapphires. I'll take tanzanite color over those any day of the week.

 

[PrincessCath]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Royal sapphire bling, starting with a parure from the French royal jewels: http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/nr01/2009/09/plein-feu-sur-les-saphirs/

Great variety of hues, but generally lighter than the Di/Kate.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

I spent quite some time looking for a tanzanite coloured sapphire when I was in Sri Lanka in 2008 - they were hard to find, sought after and came with a serious price tag.

I adore the colour of tanzanite but won't pay the silly prices for something that isn't durable.

 

[LD]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

LD and I are both Brits in the UK.

The main reason for always seeing dark navy stones here is because they are cheap and readily available. Once you start looking at the medium blues prices can rise very, very quickly and sourcing can become trickier.

With there being certain price points for e-rings in particular in the UK it was in the interests of a lot of jewellers to rave about the dark stones - less hassle and whopping great margins for them. You can pick up a very dark stone for maybe £15/ct wholesale whereas you're talking hundreds or even thousands a carat for a really good blue blue. No brainer really - and then Diana put the royal seal of approval on it all.

Interestingly, the mainstream jewellers rarely stock natural anymore - it's all lab created rubies, emeralds and sapphires now.

Some people will like the dark stones because that it their preference, just as some love the very light blues. And that is great, but it annoys me to see the dark ones being pushed as ideal - especially when some of those jewellers buy their wives a very different colour from what they sell!

Ditto 100% and just to prove that some Brits (and I include Pandora in this also) have some sanity, I'm posting one of my sapphires that clearly isn't of Beyonce standard but I hope wouldn't be described as dark, black etc ..............

 

[Barrett]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

That is one fantastic sapphire, LD
WOW

 

[PrincessCath]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

LD, the color (colour?) is superb, and appears close to the Beyonce piece.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Kate Middleton & Liz Hurley move over-now this is a sapp

Very nice!