Jordy's Gem and Lapidary Odyssey thread!

[aussiejamie]

Chrysoprase is great to cab and looks great! It is however a type of chalcedony which is the type of stone agate is comprised of. Good thing about it is unlike types of jaspers and mixed minerals stones, you don't really get hard or soft spots where you can get undercutting. Definitely give it a go mate!

 

[jordyonbass]

NEXT/CURRENT PROJECT

So this post will update the thread to where I am now in my gem-hobbyist odyssey. For Christmas I got a nice little package of rough stones for faceting and a big chunk of pink sapphire which could have potentially been facet grade but is a stone that I have chosen for cabbing. Ol’ Pinky (as aussiejamie has dubbed it ) is just under 20 cts, has probably been treated like crazy and something that 99.9% of lapidaries would send back as there’s a couple of issues:

• There’s a big crack that reaches the top of the stone that’s visible in the first pic I have posted below. It’s my biggest area of concern as I am worried that it will crack all the way through and the stone will fall to pieces. One of the members at the lapidary club doesn’t think that would happen due to the hardness of corundum but I am not willing to find out without consultation first.
• In the second pic I have posted below you can see what appears to be a black spot, this isn’t something I am too worried about cutting out of the cabochon since the stone is more for me to get used to cutting irregular shaped rough into a cabochon. If it were in the hands of a trade member or an experienced hobbyist then they would probably try to cut out that section if they don’t send it back first, but unfortunately I am neither so it’s a keeper!

I recently sent Jamie the below pics of the stone and we have been in agreement about the best way to attack it; it’s already got a slight dome to it so using a flat lap wheel I will grind the back side of the stone until it is flat by dopping it with the dome side onto the stick, trace the desired template and then go from there with my usual cabbing process using 600 grit Nova wheels for the cutting/shaping and finer to polish the stone. I planned to use coarser grits with 280 being the most coarse but have been advised against it to stop potential damage that may occur and start with 600. Good idea due to my previously mentioned heavy-hands.

This rough being my first irregular shape could be a little tricky as I may have to free-hand the shape of the dome a little more than I have previously with stones that came from plates of rough. Depending on how grinding the flat back on the cab goes it may actually take a lot of shape in the initial steps due to the sapphire’s natural shape being close to that of a cabochon, so I could have less work to do than when I cut cabs from the slices of rough I am used to. Hopefully that also means minimal waste, if I get a 10 carat cabochon from this then I will be absolutely chuffed! I’ve been practicing free-hand cabbing a bit recently and I have a very small Malachite which I shall be finishing free-hand before I start to attack the sapphire (also pictured below).

If any pros have any tips for the sapphire or are in agreement/disagreement with anything I have stated about how to attack this rough then please feel free to chime in. I’m like a sponge right now and I am absorbing any and every bit of information I can before I get started on this rough.

 

[theredspinel]

No tips from me (obviously ) but I did have a quick suggestion. When you mention the cutting equipment ie the 600 nova grit wheel or polishing machine etc, before Justin's youtube video, all that jargon would have flown right over my head. Aaand I probably would have glossed over the whole paragraph and missed so much information!

I'm pretty sure other people might be a little like that, so my suggestion is maybe link to Justin's (from black opal world) video where he really succinctly shows the machines used in lapidary and in the process you see him finish off a black opal cab (what a treat!

I'd link it right now if I could find it

 

[jordyonbass]

No tips from me (obviously ) but I did have a quick suggestion. When you mention the cutting equipment ie the 600 nova grit wheel or polishing machine etc, before Justin's youtube video, all that jargon would have flown right over my head. Aaand I probably would have glossed over the whole paragraph and missed so much information!

I'm pretty sure other people might be a little like that, so my suggestion is maybe link to Justin's (from black opal world) video where he really succinctly shows the machines used in lapidary and in the process you see him finish off a black opal cab (what a treat!

I'd link it right now if I could find it

Good point!! The grit number designation is kind of hard to explain as I understood the meaning of it all from my father.

The TECHNICAL explanation is: for a 600 grit sanding wheel or sandpaper for that matter (same principle), the particles from the wheel will go through a sieve with 1200 holes per linear inch. I've known this for a long time so please excuse my lack of detail!

The easy way to remember is the higher the number, the finer the grinding particles in the wheel and the more shiny the stone will be. The lower the number, the larger the particles and the more they tend to try take out more rough.

 

[mastercutgems]

I so look forward to watching your journey in this craft...

It has been a fun one for me as well.

As for the pink sapphire; yea it looks like it has been cooked to death but you never know it may make a very lovely gem... You are heading in the same path I would take by taking advantage of the flatish base to make the bottom of the cab. Then keep a high dome on it and let it roll... Corundum will eat the heck out of your wheels especially the bonded ones; so get all your grunt work done on your steel wheels to minimize the excessive wear on the rubber backed ones. They are not cheap as I am sure you know already. But looks good to me...

Just a word of caution on malachite; it has copper sulphate and is poisonous to a certain degree as the breathing of the dust on a regular basis can be toxic; I usually make sure I have no open cuts or anything when cutting it and eliminate any dust as much as possible with water mist to keep it down... But you more-than-likely know this already but being osha trained for 30+ years makes me a little anal on those things LOL

Enjoy the journey and have fun with it as you never know what stone you are working with will turn out to be a one in a lifetime find...

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[jordyonbass]

No tips from me (obviously ) but I did have a quick suggestion. When you mention the cutting equipment ie the 600 nova grit wheel or polishing machine etc, before Justin's youtube video, all that jargon would have flown right over my head. Aaand I probably would have glossed over the whole paragraph and missed so much information!

I'm pretty sure other people might be a little like that, so my suggestion is maybe link to Justin's (from black opal world) video where he really succinctly shows the machines used in lapidary and in the process you see him finish off a black opal cab (what a treat!

I'd link it right now if I could find it

Good point!! The grit number designation is kind of hard to explain as I understood the meaning of it all from my father.

The TECHNICAL explanation is: for a 600 grit sanding wheel or sandpaper for that matter (same principle), the particles from the wheel will go through a sieve with 1200 holes per linear inch. I've known this for a long time so please excuse my lack of detail!

The easy way to remember is the higher the number, the finer the grinding particles in the wheel and the more shiny the stone will be. The lower the number, the larger the particles and the more they tend to try take out more rough.

Sorry it's 600 holes per liner inch, not 1200!!

 

[jordyonbass]

I so look forward to watching your journey in this craft...

It has been a fun one for me as well.

As for the pink sapphire; yea it looks like it has been cooked to death but you never know it may make a very lovely gem... You are heading in the same path I would take by taking advantage of the flatish base to make the bottom of the cab. Then keep a high dome on it and let it roll... Corundum will eat the heck out of your wheels especially the bonded ones; so get all your grunt work done on your steel wheels to minimize the excessive wear on the rubber backed ones. They are not cheap as I am sure you know already. But looks good to me...

Just a word of caution on malachite; it has copper sulphate and is poisonous to a certain degree as the breathing of the dust on a regular basis can be toxic; I usually make sure I have no open cuts or anything when cutting it and eliminate any dust as much as possible with water mist to keep it down... But you more-than-likely know this already but being osha trained for 30+ years makes me a little anal on those things LOL

Enjoy the journey and have fun with it as you never know what stone you are working with will turn out to be a one in a lifetime find...

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master gem Cutter
#96CGE42

Thanks for the post Dana!! The 600 wheels at the club are rubber backed, I think the finest grit they have in the steel/impreg wheel is 280 at the moment. I've spoken with Jamie and he thinks it may be a little too much for the stone, would you agree? Seems like a 360 would probably be ideal.

I actually didn't know that about Malachite, thank you so much for letting me know. Would you recommend a facemask or something while cabbing it?
Also a bit more personal of a question, did you start as a hobbyist as Jamie has done or did you work for someone and learn? I don't have any interest in going trade but it does interest me how trade members got to where they are.

 

[aussiejamie]

Hi mate,
Just to clarify something in regards to ol' pinky! I suggested using finer grit wheels for this stone for a couple of reasons. First off, the gem is quite small compared to the stones you have been cutting. 280 can move alot of material very fast and it is better to spend an extra 5 mins getting it right on a finer grit that grinding your stone away by accidently over cutting (this is especially true when learning). Secondly to your own admssion you are heavy handed on the wheels further reinforcing using a finer grit. Thirdly because the stone is treated we dont know how stable it is and you may tear chunks out of it on coarse grits. Fourthly coarse grits create subsurface damage which can making polishing hell! Got any questions just ask as i am always happy to help.

 

[mastercutgems]

No problem on personal questions I get them all the time ...

I started on the tumbler polisher which to me was like watching paint dry. Then I went to the genie and started cabbing; it too was fun for about a year but not what I wanted; I wanted to see BLING !!!! I am like a crow I like bright shinny things

As for starting faceting I bought my ultra-tec from Paul Burton; a dear ole friend who is 87 now and great cutter who cut the largest hiddenite found and it resides in a museum in Texas and he also has some of his cuts in the Smithsonian Institute... But he would never show me a thing LOL He would tell me but never would show me ??? But hey you get what you can when you can and there was not much in the way of youtube etc. when I started as those things were non-existent. So that is why now I will show and tell all I know; it was for me trial and error and that can be costly and disheartening... So ask anything and I will do my best to give you the best answer I know or steer you in a direction to get the right answer or best answer.

Paul sold me the new machine, some rough, and laps and the book faceting for Amateurs by Glenn and Martha Vargas... Which to me is the bible for faceting and cutting in general. That was it; fortunately I had about 8 years of tool and die making and machinist trade under my belt and did carbide die grinding and polishing on a old WW2 machine. So I had some background in what I had to do with angles and polishing and cutting. But once you understand the way light works in those minerals and what you can and cannot do; it will make it much more simple and then you can cut on the fly and not have to follow diagrams to restrict your creative juices. Diagrams are great; do not get me wrong; but you must learn to vary the design to retain weight, color zoning, and also dodge inclusions, etc. also when repairing damaged gems you may not need to re-cut the entire gem but just blend in facets to remove scratches, nicks, rubs, etc.. As it may have a 2K mount it has to go back into; so knowing what the angles and indexes do to float in a facet will really help you in all respects of faceting.

As for the corundum " ole Pinky" I agree you may want to hold back from anything more coarse than 600 grit as if the material is glass facture filled you can shake that stuff loose from the vibration of a coarser wheel. But always watch what is happening when you take it to any wheel and adjust your strategy per what you see happening with the stone...

Just cut cheap natural stuff until you get the feel of it. You will do very well and any cutter worth their salt will have no problem with you becoming a vendor or cutter for hire. There is enough room out there for everyone... I wish you all the very best and will help you in any way I can..

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[PrecisionGem]

That stone likes like it has been leaded glass filled.

 

[jordyonbass]

No problem on personal questions I get them all the time ...

I started on the tumbler polisher which to me was like watching paint dry. Then I went to the genie and started cabbing; it too was fun for about a year but not what I wanted; I wanted to see BLING !!!! I am like a crow I like bright shinny things

As for starting faceting I bought my ultra-tec from Paul Burton; a dear ole friend who is 87 now and great cutter who cut the largest hiddenite found and it resides in a museum in Texas and he also has some of his cuts in the Smithsonian Institute... But he would never show me a thing LOL He would tell me but never would show me ??? But hey you get what you can when you can and there was not much in the way of youtube etc. when I started as those things were non-existent. So that is why now I will show and tell all I know; it was for me trial and error and that can be costly and disheartening... So ask anything and I will do my best to give you the best answer I know or steer you in a direction to get the right answer or best answer.

Paul sold me the new machine, some rough, and laps and the book faceting for Amateurs by Glenn and Martha Vargas... Which to me is the bible for faceting and cutting in general. That was it; fortunately I had about 8 years of tool and die making and machinist trade under my belt and did carbide die grinding and polishing on a old WW2 machine. So I had some background in what I had to do with angles and polishing and cutting. But once you understand the way light works in those minerals and what you can and cannot do; it will make it much more simple and then you can cut on the fly and not have to follow diagrams to restrict your creative juices. Diagrams are great; do not get me wrong; but you must learn to vary the design to retain weight, color zoning, and also dodge inclusions, etc. also when repairing damaged gems you may not need to re-cut the entire gem but just blend in facets to remove scratches, nicks, rubs, etc.. As it may have a 2K mount it has to go back into; so knowing what the angles and indexes do to float in a facet will really help you in all respects of faceting.

As for the corundum " ole Pinky" I agree you may want to hold back from anything more coarse than 600 grit as if the material is glass facture filled you can shake that stuff loose from the vibration of a coarser wheel. But always watch what is happening when you take it to any wheel and adjust your strategy per what you see happening with the stone...

Just cut cheap natural stuff until you get the feel of it. You will do very well and any cutter worth their salt will have no problem with you becoming a vendor or cutter for hire. There is enough room out there for everyone... I wish you all the very best and will help you in any way I can..

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

Wow, great history there Dana!! It would seem that cutting stones is a lot like music; while there are guidelines to follow, a person's product comes from their own personal creativity and their own approach.

I'm very much looking at cutting cheap, natural stones and staying away from anything expensive or synthetic. As far as becoming a vendor, it isn't something that interests me right now - I ran my own business a while ago and it was a headache. Plus I could be starting a new job soon doing land surveying and geotechnician reports, comes with company car and could land me 100k per year so I could be busy doing that with barely any time for my hobbies!!

 

[jordyonbass]

That stone likes like it has been leaded glass filled.

Interesting that you say that Gene - it was literally the first thing Jamie said as well after I sent him some pics of the stone. I'm not concerned about it being treated as it's obviously a cheap sapphire for me to practice on, but I was wondering what telltale signs there are in the pics that indicate it has been lead glass filled?

Edit: Jamie, if you could also post what you see that indicates the LGF then that would be great as well!

 

[PrecisionGem]

It's that glossy look with bubbles. It has that look like it was dipped in molten glass. A natural stone never looks like that.

 

[aussiejamie]

Hi mate,
Pretty much exactly what Gene said! A natural stone has been tumbling around creek beds and geological formations for millions of years. It should not have that glassy molten look but have a somewhat 'frosted' skin from banging into other rocks over the years.

 

[jordyonbass]

Thanks for that guys, yeah I can see what you mean when I compare it to the garnets that I have, they have a frosty looking skin on them. I also had another look at my blue sapphire and it may have had similar treatment although I am not entirely sure, it does have some sides that have that frosted look but two of the sides look very smooth and glossy almost

 

[aussiejamie]

Hi mate,
A stone can have a glassy fracture / section where it could have been broken apart fairly recently but it should follow a specific fracture pattern for the gem such as a conchoidal fracture pattern as seen in volcanic glass (obsidian) or quartzes. Whack up a few pics of your sapphire from from different angles if you can. I will try to find an example and post a pic for you.

 

[jordyonbass]

Hi mate,
A stone can have a glassy fracture / section where it could have been broken apart fairly recently but it should follow a specific fracture pattern for the gem such as a conchoidal fracture pattern as seen in volcanic glass (obsidian) or quartzes. Whack up a few pics of your sapphire from from different angles if you can. I will try to find an example and post a pic for you.

Here's a few shots, had to use my phone to get them though so they aren't amazing.

It's quite dark and doesn't show a lot of blue until I get a light source of some kind and hold it up to it. Do sapphires often look dark like that until it's been faceted?

 

[aussiejamie]

Hi mate,
That sapphire does not look LGF which is good. The flat 'smooth' sides are where someone has used a saw to trim the stone. By the looks of it that stone might have a pretty strong green cross-table and will cut quite dark imo. You can check this yourself by holding a torch behind the stone and finding the axis where it is blue. Turn the stone 90 degrees and see what colour it changes to (will most probably be quite greenish). This colour that you see now is referred to as being the cross table colour. This phenomena is called Dichroism and can be very important when orientating sapphires for cutting. Others please chime in if I have left anything out which Jordy can benefit from!

 

[jordyonbass]

I'll take some more pics of it when I can with light shining through the stone, the best I can probably muster right now is a phone torch light though. I have seen the dichroism and it's almost like a cool party trick to show my friends!

The cross table is a bit greenish and I remember you mentioning that having a greenish cross table means it will probably cut dark, so if it is dark then I won't be disappointed at all. I don't think the rough cost a hell of a lot, like I have said it was a xmas present to learn on.
Would a high quality stone still be fairly blue on the same greenish cross table?

 

[PrecisionGem]

Generally, if sitting on a piece of white paper, the stone looks almost black, then that is how it will look after cutting. A stone like this, after cutting, and in strong direct light, will have a few small flashes of color. In every other lighting condition just be black.

There is NEVER such a think as a cheap piece of rough cutting a quality stone.

 

[chrono]

I have nothing to add except a huge thank you to the professionals who are keeping this thread alive with knowledge and great advice.

 

[jordyonbass]

Generally, if sitting on a piece of white paper, the stone looks almost black, then that is how it will look after cutting. A stone like this, after cutting, and in strong direct light, will have a few small flashes of color. In every other lighting condition just be black.

There is NEVER such a think as a cheap piece of rough cutting a quality stone.

A few small flashes of color is a lot more than what I can see now, it's very dark unless I shine a torch light through the stone. I'll try add some pics of the stone with the light shone through over the next 24 hours or so, I'll also have a couple questions I may ask with the post in regards to dichroism as well.

And I wish to echo Chrono's thanks to Jamie, Gene and Dana. I'm getting years of wisdom for free and couldn't be more appreciative for it

 

[theredspinel]

Another echo of thanks... This is all so interesting!

 

[aussiejamie]

Hi Jordy,

Generally, if sitting on a piece of white paper, the stone looks almost black, then that is how it will look after cutting. A stone like this, after cutting, and in strong direct light, will have a few small flashes of color. In every other lighting condition just be black.

There is NEVER such a think as a cheap piece of rough cutting a quality stone.

I think Gene's advice here is spot on!

If that sapphire was mine I would be cutting it in an emerald cut (or a design with large facets). Couple of reasons

1. When cutting dark gems it is better to use a design that has less amount of facets which inturn allows for the facets that are there to be larger. When facets are larger this allows for a bigger / stronger flash of colour when the light does catch the facet. The bigger flash of light has a better chance of penetrating the dark material.

2. Depending on where the c axis lies, the rough is well shaped for an Emerald cut.

It is great to see Gene and Dana adding to the conversation as I hope I can do some learning too! I honestly don't think I will ever stop learning in regards to lapidary and love to hear different opinions and new techniques from different people which I can incorporate into my own skillset.

 

[Lovinggems]

Jordy looks like you need to take up faceting too. Thanks for posting.

 

[jordyonbass]

Hi Jamie,

I had the exact same thoughts regarding the c axis and the best cut being an emerald, I will take some pics of it illuminated with a light soon and post them, probably tomorrow.

Lovinggems, I am just waiting on the phone call for it. I am really enjoying discussing the rough I have with pros who can tell a lot more from a photo than I can with it in my hand.

 

[mastercutgems]

Hi Jordy;

Thank you for thanking us ole timers Well I think I am the only ole timer the others are wise but young...

There is one thing that you can keep on the back-burner of your mind. When looking for something neat and worthwhile to cut remember the old stones that were once loved by another and have become abraded, chipped, and put to rest in the drawer of a old jeweler or pawn broker that just wanted the gold value. There are some very fine gems hiding in those old stones. I have been re-cutting for over 15 years and have found gems that were very valuable and only paid 10 to 100 dollars for them and they turned out to be gems worth well over a grand when re-cut...

No they are not hanging out at every old pawn shop or jewelry store but I know once in the last year I bought what they thought was a 12 carat kunzite that was heavily abraded on the table and small chips around the girdle and they sold it to me for 10 dollars. Sadly it looked like the crown had been drug across a cement walkway ??? I said to myself at the time; well it was clean except for a tiny veil on the edge which was the indicator of a natural gem and a unusual color pink and I bought it. I got it back to my shop; took the table to the genie and polished out the table enough to do an RI and it was beryl; Morganite...So that 10 dollar investment along with knowledge and the ability to do the lapidary craft made it possible for me to finish out a 8+ carat very nice pink old Morganite brilliant gem... So sometimes you find a deal where you least expect it...

Just a little word that may help you in your quest to find worthy cutting objects; learn to identify gem minerals after they are cut. I know when I used to visit my Serbian mentor he was a finished colored gem wholesaler that was one of the largest in the USA and he would sit out 200 gems or more in cases and have me identify them. Some were windowed , some were precision cut to western standards, etc. some cabbed, etc.; that method of teaching will give you the feel of what is what by their luster, return or lack of return of light, color tones, types of inclusion etc... Now did I get them all right, NO but at the end of 2 years of doing that I would get over 80% correct and that will be a tool to you to spot things that may or may not be what you are being told it is or is not; just like when Be heated sapphires came out on the market... They just did NOT look right for a sapphire; just too intense... RED FLAGS start flying and just like the Andesine scam; they could not produce a mineral specimen in facet grade form for the amount of that mineral being cut; another red flag and I would not bite... When you have the fundamentals it will be hard for anyone to pass off things on you that your "gut" tells you otherwise...
Do your base work on the minerals and how they form, what they look like in all forms and then you will have the basis of your foundation of knowledge of the mineral. And just 2 or 3 small tools to take with you when looking for rough or gems to re-cut; a chelsea filter, a dichroscope, a 15+ power loupe , and a good pen light... yes there are other tools like a spectroscope, RI tester, etc. but they can be cumbersome and without proper lighting can give false positives, but to each their own as one will swear by this or that; but those tools mentioned will get you close.

There are deals out there as these Ladies and Gentlemen show them on here all the time that they have bought. Cutting rough these days as much as it was 15 years ago is a very tough circle to break into as there is not that much coming out that is truly facet grade; I was told only .05% of the material being mined is true facet quality in decent sizes and from the prices and quality I see; I will have to agree it is very scarce indeed. As Gene, Jamie and others have said in their posts; good rough is not easy to come by and it does have a heavy price tag associated with it as those two cutters and others know how it is... Also the white paper test has been around in the cutting world longer than I have been alive and it still holds true; if you do not see the color that is pleasing to your eye on white paper in normal daylight; it will not cut something your eye will usually be pleased with.

Sorry for the long winded post but there is so much to know about all this that the books will rarely tell you. And just what I have mentioned is just a drop in the bucket of things you will need to know when you go to places like Tucson, Bangkok, etc.

be well and enjoy your journey...

Most respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[PrecisionGem]

This is what sapphire that will cut a nice bright stone will look like in the rough. There is no back lighting here.
The really dark stuff will be ok for you to learn how to cut and polish sapphire material, but don't expect anything out of the dark stones.

 

[jordyonbass]

Hi Jordy;

Thank you for thanking us ole timers Well I think I am the only ole timer the others are wise but young...

There is one thing that you can keep on the back-burner of your mind. When looking for something neat and worthwhile to cut remember the old stones that were once loved by another and have become abraded, chipped, and put to rest in the drawer of a old jeweler or pawn broker that just wanted the gold value. There are some very fine gems hiding in those old stones. I have been re-cutting for over 15 years and have found gems that were very valuable and only paid 10 to 100 dollars for them and they turned out to be gems worth well over a grand when re-cut...

No they are not hanging out at every old pawn shop or jewelry store but I know once in the last year I bought what they thought was a 12 carat kunzite that was heavily abraded on the table and small chips around the girdle and they sold it to me for 10 dollars. Sadly it looked like the crown had been drug across a cement walkway ??? I said to myself at the time; well it was clean except for a tiny veil on the edge which was the indicator of a natural gem and a unusual color pink and I bought it. I got it back to my shop; took the table to the genie and polished out the table enough to do an RI and it was beryl; Morganite...So that 10 dollar investment along with knowledge and the ability to do the lapidary craft made it possible for me to finish out a 8+ carat very nice pink old Morganite brilliant gem... So sometimes you find a deal where you least expect it...

Just a little word that may help you in your quest to find worthy cutting objects; learn to identify gem minerals after they are cut. I know when I used to visit my Serbian mentor he was a finished colored gem wholesaler that was one of the largest in the USA and he would sit out 200 gems or more in cases and have me identify them. Some were windowed , some were precision cut to western standards, etc. some cabbed, etc.; that method of teaching will give you the feel of what is what by their luster, return or lack of return of light, color tones, types of inclusion etc... Now did I get them all right, NO but at the end of 2 years of doing that I would get over 80% correct and that will be a tool to you to spot things that may or may not be what you are being told it is or is not; just like when Be heated sapphires came out on the market... They just did NOT look right for a sapphire; just too intense... RED FLAGS start flying and just like the Andesine scam; they could not produce a mineral specimen in facet grade form for the amount of that mineral being cut; another red flag and I would not bite... When you have the fundamentals it will be hard for anyone to pass off things on you that your "gut" tells you otherwise...
Do your base work on the minerals and how they form, what they look like in all forms and then you will have the basis of your foundation of knowledge of the mineral. And just 2 or 3 small tools to take with you when looking for rough or gems to re-cut; a chelsea filter, a dichroscope, a 15+ power loupe , and a good pen light... yes there are other tools like a spectroscope, RI tester, etc. but they can be cumbersome and without proper lighting can give false positives, but to each their own as one will swear by this or that; but those tools mentioned will get you close.

There are deals out there as these Ladies and Gentlemen show them on here all the time that they have bought. Cutting rough these days as much as it was 15 years ago is a very tough circle to break into as there is not that much coming out that is truly facet grade; I was told only .05% of the material being mined is true facet quality in decent sizes and from the prices and quality I see; I will have to agree it is very scarce indeed. As Gene, Jamie and others have said in their posts; good rough is not easy to come by and it does have a heavy price tag associated with it as those two cutters and others know how it is... Also the white paper test has been around in the cutting world longer than I have been alive and it still holds true; if you do not see the color that is pleasing to your eye on white paper in normal daylight; it will not cut something your eye will usually be pleased with.

Sorry for the long winded post but there is so much to know about all this that the books will rarely tell you. And just what I have mentioned is just a drop in the bucket of things you will need to know when you go to places like Tucson, Bangkok, etc.

be well and enjoy your journey...

Most respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

Hi Dana!

Re-cutting old stones, never actually thought about that to be honest. Once I have done the faceting course and confident with my skills then I will definitely look into that to develop as another skill.

In our club they have cases with all different mineral samples both rough and cut and I have actually been trying to get myself acquainted with them but there isn't anything that would be considered of a high quality. And unfortunately I don't know any pros in my area who would be happy to let me look at the their wares and try identify them!
I know my club has a lot of the equipment you mentioned so I think I will be getting some of the members to show me how they work.

Thanks again for all this info Dana, seriously. It's hard finding info like this on the internet

 

[jordyonbass]

This is what sapphire that will cut a nice bright stone will look like in the rough. There is no back lighting here.
The really dark stuff will be ok for you to learn how to cut and polish sapphire material, but don't expect anything out of the dark stones.

Wow, yeah I can see that these will cut some amazing stones! Thanks for sharing Gene

I took these pics of the blue sapphire last night, one of the C axis showing the blue and the other pic is 90 degrees to the c axis where the greenish cross table shows. Good learner stone but that's about it