I think I'm going to Tuscon this year!

[OreoRosies86]

I have a rare opportunity to go as I am visiting a relative who works with a pro baseball team in Arizona! I am going to be on the hunt for moonstone and spinel.

Who is going and what is your mission?

 

[blingbunny10]

I have a rare opportunity to go as I am visiting a relative who works with a pro baseball team in Arizona! I am going to be on the hunt for moonstone and spinel.

Who is going and what is your mission?

Ooooh PLEASE come back with some pictures! I've only been to one gem show and found it exhilarating/exhausting/overwhelming. I can't imagine what the Tucson show would be like!

 

[pregcurious]

I am so excited for you! Man, I wish I could go. If I were going, I would go ogle at all the emeralds. Can you get access to all the venues?

Please take tons of pictures for us!

 

[marcy]

Have fun! I got to go a few years ago and had a blast. If we hadn't been there with my in-laws I would have spent the entire day there. I got a cushion cut tsavorite. I actually didn't look an many sapphires or spinels since my goal was to get a tsavorite.

 

[blingyjules]

That would be amazing to go. Have a great time. Definitely definitely bring back lots of pics for us.

 

[OreoRosies86]

LOL I just had to report myself! My dyslexic brain spelled "Tucson" wrong. I was wondering why this thread title kept bugging me

 

[Starzin]

You know that having announced this, you are now one of our raving... err roving reporters! Full pictorial on return please

And have a FAB time!!

 

[minousbijoux]

LOL I just had to report myself! My dyslexic brain spelled "Tucson" wrong. I was wondering why this thread title kept bugging me

You know what I think is so ironic? Yeah, I do it too and spell Tucson wrong all the time. So what do they make their airport code? You guess it, TUS! We can all blame it on that.

Do have a great time.

 

[wolfpackgirl]

Question for you all...I am not in the trade...just a gemstone /jewelry fanatic. I do not have a wholesale number or tax I.d., but when I filled out their online badge request form...it sent me one right away! Will I be able to get in? Thanks so much ..new friends!

 

[minousbijoux]

So they sent you a wholesale badge? Is that how they make the distinction? Our local shows here would make you show your retail license in order to get into the Trade area, but that might just be too much at such a big show. I really don't know.

 

[Roger Dery]

So they sent you a wholesale badge? Is that how they make the distinction? Our local shows here would make you show your retail license in order to get into the Trade area, but that might just be too much at such a big show. I really don't know.

There are over 40 venues, and most will require some form of ID. Most will want to capture your info for future marketing as well.

For the shows that are TRADE only, they will require proof to validate you are a member of the trade. Tax license, Jewelers Board of Trade listing, letters from vendors, invoices from jewelry vendors, business cards exhibiting that you are actually in the field, etc.

Acquiring badges from one venue, is not a guarantee the others will let you in. You normally must validate for each venue entry. The only exception to this, is if you pass muster with AGTA - their badge will create a smooth path to other shows. Of course, if you are a Firm Member of AGTA, all doors will be open. AGTA has several types of membership, and there are only about 400 actual Firm Members who have passed a series of requirements, including 5 letters of recommendation from other Firm Members.

 

[tara3056]

So this question might get buried in this thread, but if Roger Dery or anyone else who would know happens to read this:

My husband would like to go to the Tucson shows some year... not this year, but maybe sometime in the next couple of years? He is a lapidary, having taken up the hobby about a year ago. We have never sold anything that he's cut. The stones are usually too sentimental and, besides, he has plenty of jewelry-loving women right here in his family to gift his stones to (myself very much included!). However, as time goes on, he IS interested in beginning to sell some of his stones so he can offset the cost of the hobby and use the funds to buy more rough.

He has just applied for a state resale certificate and tax exempt cert (I'm not involved with the business-y stuff much, so I'm not sure if these are the 'official' terms). He doesn't believe he needs a federal EIN and plans to file taxes, *if* he moves forward, as a sole prop. with his SSN.

Would someone like this, who doesn't have much of a business yet, but who is definitely more "in it" than your average retail customer, be able to access interesting shows that have lots of rough available? For example, he currently buys rough from Hilmar Bosch, TMS, and New Era, among others. Would he have access to these kinds/quality of rough dealers if he were to go, or would he get stuck paying retail prices in only the large shows that are open to the public?

 

[Roger Dery]

So this question might get buried in this thread, but if Roger Dery or anyone else who would know happens to read this:

My husband would like to go to the Tucson shows some year... not this year, but maybe sometime in the next couple of years? He is a lapidary, having taken up the hobby about a year ago. We have never sold anything that he's cut. The stones are usually too sentimental and, besides, he has plenty of jewelry-loving women right here in his family to gift his stones to (myself very much included!). However, as time goes on, he IS interested in beginning to sell some of his stones so he can offset the cost of the hobby and use the funds to buy more rough.

He has just applied for a state resale certificate and tax exempt cert (I'm not involved with the business-y stuff much, so I'm not sure if these are the 'official' terms). He doesn't believe he needs a federal EIN and plans to file taxes, *if* he moves forward, as a sole prop. with his SSN.

Would someone like this, who doesn't have much of a business yet, but who is definitely more "in it" than your average retail customer, be able to access interesting shows that have lots of rough available? For example, he currently buys rough from Hilmar Bosch, TMS, and New Era, among others. Would he have access to these kinds/quality of rough dealers if he were to go, or would he get stuck paying retail prices in only the large shows that are open to the public?

Tara,
As noted up-thread, there are many venues that make up the annual Tucson Gem Show. It literally takes over the town for 2 weeks. This year, there are somewhere near 40 different shows or displays one could visit. Of those, many require some form of proof, validation or credentials to enter - even if they are geared toward the consumer.

If someone was entering the gem or jewelry trade, having a State Sales Tax License, Resale Certificate or similar (as some states do not require them) is VERY helpful in securing passes to most any show. Will not need a federal EIN, unless of course he takes on employees and then it won't be an option. The SSN will work, but so will the license or certificate number provided by the state.

He could help himself if his business name was something like: Shazam Gems and Jewelry - as compared to Shazam Enterprizes. For attending many shows, they request a business card, and it would be helpful to make photocopies of the tax license or certificate. I'm sure it goes without saying, the business card should match the tax license and/or certificate.

*in many of today's environments, business cards are viewed as being so 90's. But, this is one of those situations where it is important to go through the effort to have them made. Or, if you are creative in this way, make them yourself using nice card stock.

**as far as the comment about paying retail.... true wholesale comes from purchasing volume. As in, "how much for the whole parcel? It is one kilo, and it is $55 per gram. How about if I only take 1/4 kilo? Well, then it is $70 per gram. How 'bout if I select just 6-8 pieces? Well, then it is $110 per gram. So, given this situation, one would be getting a "trade price" which is fair under these circumstances. And still a bit below a retail situation. Firms like TMS and New Era are wise in having their goods set up at Tucson to serve the buyer looking to cherry-pick individual roughs for their specific purposes or preferences. After one is selecting for a few years, and the rough vendors get to know you, then things improve to the buyer's benefit. But, this will take time. I find many newer faceters feel that going to Tucson is a once-every-3-or-4-year kinda trip. If they plan to impact rough sellers to allow them better selection, or better prices, it will take more frequent contact then every few years.

Tara I hope you find this helpful.

 

[tara3056]

Roger, thank you so much for such a generous and informative reply! I've passed the info on to my husband. (He lurks on the other forum, but despite having a lot of questions to ask, hasn't managed to jump in yet.) Getting "amazing" prices on rough would not be something he'd be hoping for or expecting -- I understand what you said about having connections and buying in volume being the key to better prices -- but he *would* be disappointed if he went to the show and wasn't even able to enter the areas containing some of the better rough dealers. For some shows, it seems like a state sales tax license / resale cert and business cards would be enough to gain entry; for others, I feel like I've seen more stringent requirements, like having invoices that show 10k worth of wholesale jewelry purchases and such. In that case, there's no way he could meet that.

Mostly, he'd be excited about just getting to see massive amounts of rough in person. So far, he's gotten really comfortable with ordering rough that comes to the house, sometimes on memo, and taking a bit of time to really examine each piece and refractyl it. I'm not sure how you more-experienced cutters do it - whether it just takes time to develop a good, sharp eye, or what, because my husband is great at evaluating rough when he can refractyl it, but less so without it. High RI materials can hide internal cleavage planes pretty well sometimes - or at least, for someone like him. So I have much admiration for cutters who buy whole parcels and very expensive pieces without the crutch of refractyl. Not to even mention those who buy on the fly on location in Africa, etc.

Anyway, thank you again for the information! OP: I hope you'll forgive the threadjack, and I hope you have a great time in Tucson!

 

[PrecisionGem]

Tara, one thing your husband will not see in Tucson is "massive amounts of rough", at least not high end faceting material. He would find material to cut, but don't think you are going to walk into a show and see booth after booth selling facet rough. Sometimes the best deals are made in the hall ways and parking lots, but these normally involve buying a parcel, not a few pieces.

Sometimes the only way to get some nice stones is to take the whole parcel. Last year there was a nice parcel of tsavorite, I'm sure Roger saw it or heard of it, but the price was a little under $100,000 and the dealer was not going to split it, or allow selection. For years I have been trying to get other's to go in on a sort of "buyers club" to purchase these kinds of things and then split them among 3 or 4 people. So far, I haven't had much luck with this.

 

[pregcurious]

Roger and Gene, thank you for the insight into your work.

 

[minousbijoux]

Tara, one thing your husband will not see in Tucson is "massive amounts of rough", at least not high end faceting material. He would find material to cut, but don't think you are going to walk into a show and see booth after booth selling facet rough. Sometimes the best deals are made in the hall ways and parking lots, but these normally involve buying a parcel, not a few pieces.

Sometimes the only way to get some nice stones is to take the whole parcel. Last year there was a nice parcel of tsavorite, I'm sure Roger saw it or heard of it, but the price was a little under $100,000 and the dealer was not going to split it, or allow selection. For years I have been trying to get other's to go in on a sort of "buyers club" to purchase these kinds of things and then split them among 3 or 4 people. So far, I haven't had much luck with this.

Gene: in the whole parcel scenario you describe, how many kilos would that $100k parcel have been?

 

[tara3056]

Gene, I would have loved to see that tsavorite parcel. I bet it was pretty amazing.

Thank you for your reply and insight! Understand when I say "massive amounts of rough" that my definition is probably far different from yours LOL. We're used to getting just a handful of pieces to examine at home, maybe 15 tops at one time. Even seeing one dealer's inventory in real life would be overwhelming (and overwhelmingly cool!) for us! Take the number of stones on HB's plates, for example. That'd be insane for us to see IRL.

 

[minousbijoux]

Gene, I would have loved to see that tsavorite parcel. I bet it was pretty amazing.

Thank you for your reply and insight! Understand when I say "massive amounts of rough" that my definition is probably far different from yours LOL. We're used to getting just a handful of pieces to examine at home, maybe 15 tops at one time. Even seeing one dealer's inventory in real life would be overwhelming (and overwhelmingly cool!) for us! Take the number of stones on HB's plates, for example. That'd be insane for us to see IRL.

I hope the prices are cheaper in Tucson than Bosch's though.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Tara, one thing your husband will not see in Tucson is "massive amounts of rough", at least not high end faceting material. He would find material to cut, but don't think you are going to walk into a show and see booth after booth selling facet rough. Sometimes the best deals are made in the hall ways and parking lots, but these normally involve buying a parcel, not a few pieces.

Sometimes the only way to get some nice stones is to take the whole parcel. Last year there was a nice parcel of tsavorite, I'm sure Roger saw it or heard of it, but the price was a little under $100,000 and the dealer was not going to split it, or allow selection. For years I have been trying to get other's to go in on a sort of "buyers club" to purchase these kinds of things and then split them among 3 or 4 people. So far, I haven't had much luck with this.

Gene: in the whole parcel scenario you describe, how many kilos would that $100k parcel have been?

I'm thinking it was around 300 cts. total.

Good tsavorite rough is very very very expensive the past few years.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Gene, I would have loved to see that tsavorite parcel. I bet it was pretty amazing.

Thank you for your reply and insight! Understand when I say "massive amounts of rough" that my definition is probably far different from yours LOL. We're used to getting just a handful of pieces to examine at home, maybe 15 tops at one time. Even seeing one dealer's inventory in real life would be overwhelming (and overwhelmingly cool!) for us! Take the number of stones on HB's plates, for example. That'd be insane for us to see IRL.

I hope the prices are cheaper in Tucson than Bosch's though.

Bosch's prices are not bad for single stones. In Tucson you will find things more expensive than his, and some less. Everyone knows what rough is worth who is in the business, and no one sells it cheap. You can meet up with a guy in the bush in Africa, and he will pull out a cell phone make a call, and then offer a stone at a price that is the going rate.

The really select pieces are expensive period.

 

[pregcurious]

(^ clueless) Who is Bosch?

 

[tara3056]

pregcurious: Hilmar Bosch, a seller of primarily African facet rough.

 

[minousbijoux]

Tara, one thing your husband will not see in Tucson is "massive amounts of rough", at least not high end faceting material. He would find material to cut, but don't think you are going to walk into a show and see booth after booth selling facet rough. Sometimes the best deals are made in the hall ways and parking lots, but these normally involve buying a parcel, not a few pieces.

Sometimes the only way to get some nice stones is to take the whole parcel. Last year there was a nice parcel of tsavorite, I'm sure Roger saw it or heard of it, but the price was a little under $100,000 and the dealer was not going to split it, or allow selection. For years I have been trying to get other's to go in on a sort of "buyers club" to purchase these kinds of things and then split them among 3 or 4 people. So far, I haven't had much luck with this.

Gene: in the whole parcel scenario you describe, how many kilos would that $100k parcel have been?

I'm thinking it was around 300 cts. total.

Good tsavorite rough is very very very expensive the past few years.

Somewhere in the range of 300-600 cts makes far more sense - I was thinking kilos because I was thinking there were 22 grams in a kilo - some of us have challenges with our conversions Good thing I don't buy rough for a living!

 

[tara3056]

Wow at the price on that tsav parcel... if it was 300 carats, that's about $300/carat rough and a cutter would have presumably had to sell it for $1200/carat finished (assuming 25% yield) just to break even - with no profit for their time and skill in faceting. I know top material can command big prices and good tsav (rough or cut) is only getting more expensive, but dang, this just makes the whole "things are getting scarce... prices are going up" thing really hit home! (Also makes me glad to have bought some tsavs when I did!)

 

[minousbijoux]

Wow at the price on that tsav parcel... if it was 300 carats, that's about $300/carat rough and a cutter would have presumably had to sell it for $1200/carat finished (assuming 25% yield) just to break even - with no profit for their time and skill in faceting. I know top material can command big prices and good tsav (rough or cut) is only getting more expensive, but dang, this just makes the whole "things are getting scarce... prices are going up" thing really hit home! (Also makes me glad to have bought some tsavs when I did!)

I actually think Gene might have been a little low on his estimation of the carat size of the parcel - there would have to be economies of scale in buying that much and it seems that top quality tsav is available in individual pieces of rough for less than $300 even now.

 

[Roger Dery]

Wow at the price on that tsav parcel... if it was 300 carats, that's about $300/carat rough and a cutter would have presumably had to sell it for $1200/carat finished (assuming 25% yield) just to break even - with no profit for their time and skill in faceting. I know top material can command big prices and good tsav (rough or cut) is only getting more expensive, but dang, this just makes the whole "things are getting scarce... prices are going up" thing really hit home! (Also makes me glad to have bought some tsavs when I did!)

I actually think Gene might have been a little low on his estimation of the carat size of the parcel - there would have to be economies of scale in buying that much and it seems that top quality tsav is available in individual pieces of rough for less than $300 even now.

$300/gram may have been feasible just a few years ago, but not now. I just spent 17 days in Africa with most of that time looking and researching fine rough. There were NO large parcels of Tsavorite rough to look at, let alone being able to buy it. Between us all, we acquired 6 pieces of Tsavorite rough, with the largest just over 2-grams.

I believe many of the younger/newer faceters going to Tucson (this year) will be flabbergasted as to where pricing has gone.

 

[minousbijoux]

I guess maybe I've never seen top quality rough then!

 

[katharath]

I recently heard the same info (from a popular vendor who will be going to Tucson). He said that many people are "going to be shocked" at the pricing this year at Tucson. He said "everything is up". Also that availability is down, he was specifically speaking about merelani mints and tsavorite.

So I went ahead and bought a pair of mints that I wanted now, before the pricing gets even higher (and he said there was going to be very little available shortly!). It also has me rethinking my decision to sell a couple of little tsavs that I have...probably will keep them after all.

 

[Roger Dery]

Somewhere in the range of 300-600 cts makes far more sense - I was thinking kilos because I was thinking there were 22 grams in a kilo - some of us have challenges with our conversions Good thing I don't buy rough for a living!

Well, there is actually 1,000 grams in a kilogram.