Giving feedback to dealers

[rimshotsnap]

Hi All,

I've been learning so much here and have a thousand more questions. Thought I would start with this one, since it's pertinent at the moment.

I am planning to return a sapphire to one of the dealers recommended on these forums. My jeweler pointed out some major imperfections in the cutting (which I came to see as well), and this dealer seems to pride himself on his cutting. I'm wondering what is the proper etiquette in this situation? I could simply return the stone with a vague reason. The only point in saying more would be 1) some people appreciate honest feedback, and 2) it would give him a better sense of what I am looking for.

Many others seem to have had positive experiences buying from him, so I'm assuming this is just a one-off. Any advice on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated!

 

[GregS]

It would depend on what the issues your jeweler pointed out were. Do you mind sharing?

 

[gingercurls]

Hi,

I read your most recent post in your other thread and I think that you should consider a few things. It is great that your jeweler is willing to give you their opinion on outside stones. Also take into consideration that he showed you a stone of his and it seems like he tried to convince you that it is a better option. While it could very well be that the jeweler's stone is better, precision cut stones (for the most part) tend to out perform non-precision cut stones, especially in the cut department.

That being said, I find it to be odd that a stone that Andrew of Gemfix cut would have such hugely glaring cut issues. Many here have purchased from Gemfix and have been very pleased. I have never heard of someone being displeased with the cutting and have only heard some seemingly minor complaints about the accuracy of their photography. However, not every single stone that is on the Gemfix site has been precision cut so it could be that the sapphire that you received was not cut by Andrew himself.


Could you give us more information about the cut issues that your jeweler pointed out with the Gemfix sapphire? I am wondering if the stone was somehow damaged and had a chip or scratches or if your jeweler pointed out something like a poor polishing job or bad meet points.

I would just explain to Gemfix that the color wasn't exactly what you were looking for and that is why you are going to return it. However, I am sure that many here would tell you to point out glaring cut issues to a precision cutter.

 

[GregS]

I just read your other thread and got the details I needed. I'd let it go. You're taking the word of a jeweler (one that's trying to sell you a stone) not a reputable lapidary. Neither you or the vendor stands to gain anything by you sharing your jewelers biased opinion.

 

[katharath]

Completely agree with Greg here.

I'm wondering if it could have been a natural on the gemfix sapphire that the jeweler pointed out.

I'm curious - does the jeweler actually cut gems? Is he very familiar with colored gems? The reason I ask is that if not, perhaps he could have seen an imperfection like a natural (which is a form of inclusion that is typically considered acceptable, not a big deal and not worth losing gem weight over) and perhaps made a bigger deal of it than someone who is very experienced with CS. Most jewelers only know diamonds well, so this seems possible to me.

(Speaking from my own experience with gemfix, I own an expertly cut gem done by Andrew, and I could find no flaws with it).

If you're not keeping the gem, I absolutely would not say that a jeweler, who was interested in selling you his own gem, pointed out that he believes the returned gem has cutting flaws. I don't see the point, honestly. I don't think it would be well received, and might make for a bumpy return process.

 

[rimshotsnap]

I realize it probably sounds like my jeweler was trying to sell me his sapphire. He wasn't. He doesn't really sell stones and has always encouraged me to find my own (he is mostly a jewelry designer, but has extensive experience with colored stones). He told me it would be easy to do better than his stone too, but the Gemfix was really not worth the price and only used his to give me an idea of what stones should cost. The main issue he mentioned was the poor polishing, which I saw with my own eyes. In contrast, he loved the cutting on the Jeff Davies spinel.

The Gemfix was cut by Andrew and says "nice cutting" in the description. I've read all the praise here for Andrew's stones and I'm sure his reputation is well-deserved. I'm really not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, and really want to handle this in the right way. I appreciate the comments thus far. I think my approach should be to keep my mouth shut unless I am asked for additional information.

The gem world seems to have its own etiquette, so I appreciate your help in educating me.

 

[Cognition]

Remember when I told you to be cautious on your newly found alex dealer in ebay, and you kept insist to buy more stone from the same dealer for comparison?

you just did the same thing here. you are drowned by your jeweler's sweet talk!!! most jeweler are a salesman, they will do whatever they can to maximize their gain. imo they will either do one of these trick:
1. persuade you to buy one of their stone + ring
2. persuade you to take the stone which fit perfectly in one of your jeweler's setting in their stock

Note: I am not sure which stone are you talk about, but jeff's cobalt spinel definitely a fine one.

 

[dk168]

IMHO...

* The vendor should be informed of any issues first prior to any public announcement/posting
* Unless the cutting is listed/specified as "precision cut", then some imperfections should be expected

DK

 

[dk168]

I do not know the details of the stone in question, however, based on personal experiences with numerous purchases from Jeff Davies, the cutting for his non-precision cut stones are much better than other eBay vendors I have purchased from in the past, and his prices are very reasonable and affordable.

His precision cuts are cut to very high standards, as viewed using a 20x loupe.

DK
A self-confessed fan of JD's eBay store

 

[Marlow]

IMHO...

* The vendor should be informed of any issues first prior to any public announcement/posting
* Unless the cutting is listed/specified as "precision cut", then some imperfections should be expected

DK

Excellent post!!

 

[Marlow]

Remember when I told you to be cautious on your newly found alex dealer in ebay, and you kept insist to buy more stone from the same dealer for comparison?

you just did the same thing here. you are drowned by your jeweler's sweet talk!!! most jeweler are a salesman, they will do whatever they can to maximize their gain. imo they will either do one of these trick:
1. persuade you to buy one of their stone + ring
2. persuade you to take the stone which fit perfectly in one of your jeweler's setting in their stock

Note: I am not sure which stone are you talk about, but jeff's cobalt spinel definitely a fine one.

Excellent too!!

 

[MollyMalone]

There's been some confusion here. The stone that rimshot's jeweler criticized is the oval sapphire from Gemfix -- not the spinel from Jeff Davies.

I just checked the sapphire's listing. It's one that Andrew Gulij himself cut, a modified Portugese cut. So not a "native" or non-precision cut; when offered on the Gemfix site, those are described as simply a "mixed" cut, and don't carry the notation of "Cut by Anfrew Gulij."

None of us has seen the sapphire under magnification. I'll simply observe that Portuguese cuts have a helluva lot of facets. And because the only criticism your jeweler made of the cutting (not the darkness of the stone) as related in your other thread is that the polish is lousy, it doesn't seem entirely fair to say, as you've done here, that the sapphire's cut has "some major imperfections".

P.S. Think the Sri Lankan sapphire on Dana Reynold's web site which it seems you are now considering was cut overseas, not by Dana. So if you would consider that a drawback, you should seek clarification from him as to whether he himself cut, or has recut, it.

 

[Marlow]

You show a sapphire from another vendor to a jeweler who wants to sell a sapphire to you too.

And the jeweler criticized the Gemfix sapphire - what a surprise!!!!

I think if you buy a cheeseburger from Burger King and ask a manager from McDonalds to compare it the result will be the same.

 

[iLander]

I am always wary of colored stones from brick and mortar jewelers. They could be beryllum treated and the jeweler would have ZERO way of knowing. A beryllum treated stone would cost you $50 on ebay (go ahead, search), and I trust our vendors slightly more. I say slightly, because I would still send it to AGL labs.

Without seeing RL pics of the stone, we can't express our opinion of the stone or cut.

I trust Andrew (a winner of multiple faceting awards) over Joe Jeweler, as far as cut quality goes. Maybe your jeweler has never seen a Portugese oval before? It is quite a rare cut outside of PS circles.

But ultimately, I think you want to listen to your friend and that's fine, but try to decide for yourself rather than being influenced by others (PS or the jeweler).

 

[lilmosun]

Agree what others says here - but it isn't to say that your jeweler's stone isn't the better one or he is intentionally misleading you.

My local jeweler, who is very honest and fair, does not know colored stones and it took a long time of dealing with me to realize or admit it. He would stick his nose up at things I brought in to set and I learned to just ignore his opinion (he's a great inexpensive bench jeweler). Now, he will ask my opinion on stones he's found or to help a customer. (I usually back off because I'm not an expert.) I even heard him tell a customer "She knows more than I do". He even just sent his first CS stone out to be certified on his own (usually he just sells to me contingent upon a lab report of my choice).