Do sapphires come in this color?

[AustenNut]

I saw this heated sapphire advertised online and am wondering if sapphires even come in this color, or is something a little funny here?

This is such an unusual stone that I''m thinking about grabbing it but don''t want to get something that''s obviously fake. And are there any other obvious issues with the stone besides the coloring? The smear on the top right is something I''m investigating, but I think it may just be a smudge.

 

[FrekeChild]

If it''s from a Thai ebay store, you can just about guarantee that the photo has been tampered with. They enhance their photos and videos to the Nth degree, and the stones rarely arrive looking anywhere close to what they do in the pictures.

 

[FrekeChild]

I found it and it is coming from Thailand. I would only buy it as a "curiosity" stone and not as an actual investment. From looking at the other pictures they have available, it seems as though the light source is pretty strong, and that stone will probably be quite a bit darker in real life. However, it''s cheap (for the moment) so it''s your call. I just wouldn''t expect it to look like that in real life.

BTW, Ceylon blue is not a color per se, although many sellers seem to use that as a color descriptor. Ceylon is a location--Sri Lanka to be exact.

 

[zeolite]

Blue sapphires are dichroic. If you view and cut the crystal in one direction, it shows the desireable purplish blue color. If you view and cut it another direction, it show an undesireable greenish blue color. This one is cut in a direction that shows a bad blend of both colors. The blemish on the upper right is probably an internal fracture. I think this "gem" is best used as gravel in a fish tank.

Who is the eBay Thai seller? I mention this because I am about to take action on an Ebay Thai seller, not for a minor quality dispute, but an outright fraud of a synthetic being sold as a natural gem.

 

[LD]

That looks horribly like a photo of a bi-coloured Sapphire I bought from an Ebay seller. Do they have videos as well? That''s what fooled me because the video looked like the photos. IRL the gemstone wasn''t anything like either so somehow they had doctored the photo AND video. It was definitely the same gemstone because there was a telltale inclusion.

 

[AustenNut]

The ebay seller is bill-tresconti and this is the auction. Thanks for the feedback about the stone. Since the seller had so much positive feedback (and from different buyers, not 20 million from the same 4 people like some of the Thai sellers) I thought it might be sort of on the up-and-up.

Should I assume then that this stone is best avoided as well? I love the color on this one, and it was after viewing this one that I checked out the seller''s other auctions and found the blue stone.

 

[zeolite]

I hope I was not too harsh on the blue & green sapphire. If YOU like it and the price is low enough, then O.K. But the sapphire market in general does not like blue and green together, like that, that is poor cutting.

Your second pink stone is beautiful, if you can believe the picture. The question is, is it accurate, or is it Photoshopped to be more intense than it really is? It is listed as pink orange padparadscha. I don't see any orange, it is pink to me (a beautiful pink). Padparadschas are never that intense, so it is not correctly described as a padparadscha if the intensity is really correct. And intense pink sapphires are quite expensive too.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 9/26/2009 1:48:31 PM
Author:AustenNut
I saw this heated sapphire advertised online and am wondering if sapphires even come in this color, or is something a little funny here?

This is such an unusual stone that I''m thinking about grabbing it but don''t want to get something that''s obviously fake. And are there any other obvious issues with the stone besides the coloring? The smear on the top right is something I''m investigating, but I think it may just be a smudge.

I''m puzzled by two things.

First, given the rampant fraud on eBay, why do some people think they''ll find good natural stones there at bargain prices? Maybe it happens once in a while, but the chances of getting ripped off are very high. Even if you pay a low price it''s still money wasted if you get a synthetic or an inferior stone.

Second, if the seller is going to doctor his photos, why doesn''t he hide the ugly inclusion in that stone? It would make the item much easier to sell.

 

[Barrett]

glad you are gettin'' them Zeo..I actually know 2 other folks who deal in gems who just got ripped by two different ebay sellers they had been going to for awhile..buyer beware

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks again for the feedback. I think I''ll address the comments in reverse order:

AmGuy (& Zeolite) : Thanks for trying to keep ebay clean for the rest of us.

Morecarats : I don''t think I''m going to be getting a stone worth lots of money for pennies on the dollar on ebay. What this method does allow, however, is a few different things.

1) Learning: If you''ve never seen a spinel, or are trying to figure out if you prefer the appearance of a zircon vs a topaz, or what color (or size) would look best on your hand, you don''t necessarily want to be buying some of the more expensive, quality items from the respected vendors here. Most of my local jewelers have limited types of gemstones so I can''t see them in person that way, and there hasn''t been much in the way of gem shows either. Ebay allows people to pick up generic quality gems to at least get an in-person visual on some of this stuff.

2) Inexpensive practice: Especially for those just starting out in this expensive hobby, it might be nice to figure out if it''s personally worthwhile for you. It''s hard to get a nice stone and setting (be it rings, jewelry, etc) for less than $500 and that''s going really simple and with a less expensive type of stone. With ebay you can pick up a cheap stone and then get a nice but inexpensive setting off etsy or something similar for closer to $100. If you find that you are wearing the $100 piece of jewelry and want more, then it''s a good indication that you should start looking at the more expensive stuff more seriously rather than just browsing the internet and drooling. But if you go for that $500 (or more) piece and then realize that you hardly ever wear it, or it just isn''t what you thought it would be, then it''s a lot more money that is semi-wasted to find out that this really isn''t for you after all.

Zeolite : No worries about being too harsh on the blue stone. As others have said here, it depends on what you like. I already know that my tastes aren''t always what is considered the "ideal" (and more expensive) tastes. Since I had never seen a blue/green stone like that I was interested, but I''m not heartbroken to know that others don''t care for the look.

Zeolite & FrekeChild : I tend to completely disregard how a seller describes their item (unless it''s a PS vendor) as I know on ebay they like to throw around terms that will get the most money. And for people who don''t know as much as y''all, they see Padparadscha or Ceylon and think it will be worth more, regardless if the stone actually fits the description.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Hi!
One of my side hobbies is photography and this image clearly looks manipulated so I would advise extreme caution. Sapphires can look somewhat like this, but this one looks unnatural.

--Joshua

 

[AustenNut]

Hi SerenityDiamonds,

Do both pictures look manipulated or just the first?

Thanks!

 

[LD]

AustenNut - please see my previous post to you. I'm absolutely 100% positive this is from the same Ebay vendor that I bought from. Both photo and video (some of their auctions don't have videos only still shots) were highly highly manipulated.

I've just posted pictures in the sticky at the top of this forum comparing vendor/own photos.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 9/27/2009 11:25:54 AM
Author: AustenNut
Hi SerenityDiamonds,


Do both pictures look manipulated or just the first?


Thanks!

Hiya!
It''s not quite as obvious on the second one, so I cannot say. The price seems too low to be real though. In my past experience, long before I got super serious and before I started my own business, I had some bad experiences with online auction and discount sites. Ebay and other auction gemstones were in most cases not what they look like in the picture at all. About 10 years ago I bought what looked like to be a great ruby and it wasn''t even transparent when I got it, lol.

Of course, it''s $10 so there''s not much to loose either.

--Joshua

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks you both for your feedback.

Lovingdiamonds, I''m sorry if I appeared to ignore your feedback. I think I''m going to bid on the pink stone, simply because I''m so curious about it, but won''t pay too much more than the current bid price (which means I may not get it). If I do end up getting it, then I might pick up the blue stone for $5 or so just as a curiosity, but if I don''t get the pink stone then I won''t bid on the blue stone. Make sense? And thanks for posting the pictures in the sticky...your ring still turned out quite nicely!

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 9/27/2009 12:28:17 PM
Author: AustenNut
Thanks you both for your feedback.


Lovingdiamonds, I''m sorry if I appeared to ignore your feedback. I think I''m going to bid on the pink stone, simply because I''m so curious about it, but won''t pay too much more than the current bid price (which means I may not get it). If I do end up getting it, then I might pick up the blue stone for $5 or so just as a curiosity, but if I don''t get the pink stone then I won''t bid on the blue stone. Make sense? And thanks for posting the pictures in the sticky...your ring still turned out quite nicely!

If you do get it, take some pics and attach it to this thread, I''m sure we''re all curious about it.

--Joshua

 

[AustenNut]

Well, it''s a possibility that I''ll get the blue stone as I just won the pink one. Had the price gone up less than $1 more I wouldn''t have won it, but I did and look forward to seeing what the color actually looks like when it gets here. I''ll put a low bid in on the blue stone, since shipping will be free for that one anyway. And if I get it then I''ll post pictures then too!

 

[zeolite]

My report about a problem Thai eBay seller:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/beware-of-ebay-seller-specialnext.126226/

 

[chrono]

Austen,
I’m not feeling a good vibe about this stone. It’s either heavily manipulated colour wise (the saturation is so intense that it’s scary) or it’s been BE treated.

 

[AustenNut]

Chrono,

Are you referring to the blue one or the pink one?

Also, for anybody, how much do appraisers normally charge to id a stone?

Are the GIA and AGLS labs the only ones who detect heat & BE treatment, or would an appraiser or someone else do this as well? What are the costs for that?

I think I heard somewhere that appraisers charge a nominal fee (like $20) to id a stone, and if that''s the case then I might just do it if I like the pink stone when it comes in. If it comes back as sapphire I might not investigate to see if it''s BE treated since the costs wouldn''t really be worthwhile (assuming $100+). But in light of the price and color, BE treatment is a definite possibility. Either that or photoshopped colors.

 

[chrono]

Actually, both stones. The pink one shouldn''t be called a padparadscha either because I can''t make out the orange component. A good appraiser will be able to test for BE treatment but unfortunately, it is going to cost a lot more than what you paid for the stones. You are correct about the cost value analysis.

 

[AustenNut]

Just as a little FYI.

In regards to the blue stone''s inclusion:

Dear a-linnola,

Hi, it is a disc explosion, or to be more precise a "zircon-halo" indicative of a heated sapphire. This is not noticeable to the naked eye. It shows under magnification only! Thanks, Bill.

- bill-tresconti


In regards to the color/photo of the pink stone:

Dear a-linnola,

Hi, the item was photod, cropped, light levels adjusted a bit, but no color adjustments. Thanks, Bill.

- bill-tresconti


The blue stone is now $11.50 which is more then I''m going to pay just to take a looksie, so I''m paying for the pink stone and look forward to its arrival. I really hope that the color is accurate, as that is why I bought it (and not for any of the descriptors that the seller used). I''m okay with it even if it''s BE treated, though I''d obviously prefer if it''s not.

Would any of the possible treatments affect the durability of the stone, or just the value of the stone?

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 9/28/2009 6:14:49 PM
Author: AustenNut
Just as a little FYI.


In regards to the blue stone''s inclusion:


Dear a-linnola,


Hi, it is a disc explosion, or to be more precise a ''zircon-halo'' indicative of a heated sapphire. This is not noticeable to the naked eye. It shows under magnification only! Thanks, Bill.


- bill-tresconti



In regards to the color/photo of the pink stone:


Dear a-linnola,


Hi, the item was photod, cropped, light levels adjusted a bit, but no color adjustments. Thanks, Bill.


- bill-tresconti



The blue stone is now $11.50 which is more then I''m going to pay just to take a looksie, so I''m paying for the pink stone and look forward to its arrival. I really hope that the color is accurate, as that is why I bought it (and not for any of the descriptors that the seller used). I''m okay with it even if it''s BE treated, though I''d obviously prefer if it''s not.


Would any of the possible treatments affect the durability of the stone, or just the value of the stone?

Good luck. Heating is a VERY standard and accepted procedure for sapphires and if that''s all that was done it would only effect the value as compared to an unheated stone. Price seems very low though.....

--Joshua

 

[AustenNut]

Ok, this actually goes back to my original question about the color of the stone (ignoring the issues related to ebay sellers and their business practices). So, does a stone with those green & blue colors exist?

I was just perusing Lisa Elser''s September catalogue and ran across this sapphire. It''s not on her website so I''m assuming it''s sold (and even with the PS discount it''s well out of the price range I''m interested in paying right now so I''d feel very awkward about asking more about it). The photo is small, but it shows some of those same green & blue colors coming through in the stone, though not to the same degree as the ebay one. Since it''s coming from Lisa Elser who has a great reputation here, I take it that everything''s on the up-and-up. And considering the price she gave it ($1250/ct, $750 for the .60 stone) it seems to be rather highly valued. Thoughts?

 

[chrono]

I think Lisa's picture shows a better stone because it is predominantly blue. The hint of green could be due to the dichroicism that is natural in a sapphires.
The eBay sapphire shows a more spotty green and blue, which is not as highly desired. So yes they exist but hardly anyone sells them or cuts them as such because it devalues the stone. Not to mention the eBay stone is clarity challenged, thus cannot be sold for a high sum. Precision cutting also usually commands a higher price over native cutting.

 

[AustenNut]

Well, the story continues. The blue stone''s auction ended last night...for $211.50 (plus shipping). Far too expensive for me to take a look at what the board thinks will probably be a pretty bad stone.

And when I asked the seller about BE treatments, fillings, etc, he wrote:

Hi,

One never knows about beryllium -especially with this color. I would be safe and assume it was heated with at least some BE.

Thanks, Bill.


Never replied about the fillings bit, but I''ll just cross my fingers and hope. From previous threads BE only (strongly) influences value, but won''t affect the durability of the stone. Is that correct?

 

[chrono]

$200 for a BE treated sapphire seems rather expensive. I’m glad you didn’t get it. Yes, BE only affects colour, not the structural integrity of the stone.

 

[lelser]

That stone is untreated, and from Nigerian material. It''s does have some slight green in the blue but is predominantly a blue stone. It''s also cut by me, and has no windowing or extinction problems. I will sometimes buy an Ebay stone as a "pre-form" to recut, but never the sapphires. They are so consistently treated that I don''t dare start cutting into one - all the colour goes away!

 

[LD]

Austennut - if you see a cheap gemstone with a strong colour there''s normally a reason. It''s usually BE treated.

In answer to your original questions - yes, you could get a natural untreated sapphire in that colour BUT not for that price. If it were a natural stone it would also (probably) come certified as this would push the price up considerably.

 

[Chrometsav]

A bit of a shock to see this hotly debated stone here after I purchased it!

I wish to be 100% fair to the seller and it is an ongoing sale, but will report the outcome. I will say though that I would pay about $10 a carat for a BE treated sapphire and for now, leave it at that!