Can I get some opinions on this tourmaline?

is that a crack i'm seeing?

Why a recut? Are you crazy about that colour?

Written by Chrono » August 9th, 2012, 11:10 am:Why a recut? Are you crazy about that colour?

I do think I like the color I see in the center of the first picture - but do you think its sort of muddy-like?

Does this mean you are giving up on the WF pear???

I love the colour and the flashes of orange/brown. I'm not noticing a crack but there must be better eyes out there than my oldies!

If it was recut, keep the oval shape? What are your thoughts/plans?

Im guessing it is going to be better in person, if it is a Cuprian. It looks kind of brownish to me...but, the Cuprians are usually anything but brown...make sure there's a return policy, and if so, give it a shot.

Looks like a Portuguese cut..it may be a nice cut, but to me impossible to tell with the pictures provided.

I didn't see a crack...

I'm seeing a bit of "muddy-like" colour. I don't know how much this stone costs, but I would strongly consider whether or not you could find something the colour that you like in the first pic, maybe from Barry (who often cuts pink tourms), that would cost the same as this stone, once you factor in shipping, recutting, etc. Unless you're thinking of recutting into a pear for your setting, but I don't know how easy a task that would be.

Written by NKOTB » August 9th, 2012, 1:26 pm:I'm seeing a bit of "muddy-like" colour. I don't know how much this stone costs, but I would strongly consider whether or not you could find something the colour that you like in the first pic, maybe from Barry (who often cuts pink tourms), that would cost the same as this stone, once you factor in shipping, recutting, etc. Unless you're thinking of recutting into a pear for your setting, but I don't know how easy a task that would be.

I had contacted Jerry Newman to see if he had any pears in my size (he has some rough but nothing I'm interested in) so he suggested I may want to think about purchasing a stone and have him recut it. Then I came across this one and wondered.....
But the seller is NOT a gem or jewelry seller. Says a jeweler tested it and saw a copper needle. And obviously these are crummy pictures so I wondered if the pink will look better IRL (and/or after a recut) .....

If it IS a cuprian, it's not a very nice one - this one looks quite muddy with a wide swath of brown in the profile view.

The color is too brownish for me, but your opinion is what matters. It does seem like a lot of hassle, when there surely are other stones out there that would fit the bill more easily. A jeweler "seeing a copper needle" isn't persuasive for me; if it's being sold as a cuprian, I'd want a lab report. I don't know what its price is, but seems to me you can do better & be happier with something else. Having it re-cut into a pear to fit a specific setting sounds like a big "if" too.

--- Laurie

Written by jbkhere » August 9th, 2012, 6:43 pm: Then I came across this one and wondered.....
But the seller is NOT a gem or jewelry seller. Says a jeweler tested it and saw a copper needle. And obviously these are crummy pictures so I wondered if the pink will look better IRL (and/or after a recut) .....

Seeing a needle like feature that is copper colored does not make a stone copper bearing and it doesn't even mean that the feature is copper,(probably not as that is very rare). That particular stone looks to me as if the A-B axes have a khaki green overtone. When this color "mixes" with the purplish pink C axis color it gives the stone a brownish look. It's common in these types of tourmalines and re-cutting won't change the color, (or remove the brownish overtone when viewed from low angles or the side), but may make it lighter, brighter and more attractive.

For recut material, it looks pretty good. Copper? Not sure. And as for Jerry, he is a master, so show it to him.

PS Jerry is teaching some of his last students this year in faceting. Sigh. Tom Maxwell got to do two weeks with him and I am envious. Tom is a reseller to the lapidary folks and a friend.

Edit - pps The color to look at is in the table view. It has a nice color going towards burgandy. Harder to find. My wife loves burgandy and the ring I created with a burgandy ctr (rough that I got from Lisa) and a blue-green green-blue side stones gets worn almost every day. Makes me feel really good.

In this particular case, the copper does not cause the color of this stone, as it does the turquoise blue paraiba tourmalines. Therefore, if it has copper, this should not be important to the value of this stone. It's rather deep, and I enjoy when tourmalines, or other low RI stones, like beryls, and quartz have high crowns (which this does not). Perhaps it can be recut to give it a high crown and then it would have more brilliance and sparkle, and less extinction from having a flat crown and a deep pavillion. The side view shows some brown through the pavillion, and the table shows less, so hopefully it was cut with the table on an axis that shows its best color face up. but it's hard to tell from your photos.

A lot of tourmaline contains copper, even if its the tiniest amount, but they are not really called cuprians. I would not buy a tourmaline simply because a vendor states it has copper in it. The copper must have some affect on the color (turquoise blue and greyish violet tourmalines will often heat to turquoise blue) and there are some tourmalines that do not have copper which still have beautiful color, so please don't fall into that trap.

Hmmm what's the carat size & stone dimensions of that tourmaline?

After seeing this thread, I immediately checked my ebay wishlist to see if it's still there because I have one saved with that same colour though yours looks pretty clean (the one im eyeing has VS-SI clarity)

That color is pretty (me thinks ) & it kinda reminds me of a brown pink malaya garnet. A recut, color-wise, would actually make it more lively.

Cheers*

Thank you all!

blithesome - all I know is its about a 9 carat stone. No dimensions. Seller didn't know how to measure in millimeters

TL - thanks for the info on the non-value for the copper and the fact that it is contained in many tourmalines. I had no idea..

George - I think one of the biggest reasons I was even thinking about this stone was thinking how fun it could be to see what it "was" and what Jerry turns it into!

Michael JF Chrono NKOTB & Chris - thanks for your thoughts on the color. That was my fear - that it would be too brown or muddy.

This has been an informative thread for me - I have learned a lot - thank you all!!

Sorry I've come very late to this thread. What you have there is a standard (albeit large) pink tourmaline. Unfortunately many do have brown tones and to my eye it makes them less desirable BUT beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Even if that had copper (and TL has eloquently expressed what I would have done), it doesn't have the desirability of a purple or pink "paraiba type" cuprian. To give you an example of a purple and pink cuprian that makes your eyes water and your wallet weep, I've posted a photo below. This is what people aspire to have when looking at copper bearing tourmalines.

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OK, so I decided to take a chance on this one. I ended up getting it for less than $100 and thought it may be fun to send it off to Jerry for his professional opinion on a recut. What do you think? Any chance of a recut affecting the color?

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mommy duckie wants to see!

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more pics

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halogen - yuck!

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outside

And I forgot to mention - I used the pear mount to take these pics but I intend to just go with whatever shape Jerry suggests unless its hopeless all together.....

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WOW WOW WOW. Jerry is AMAZING! He just sent me some pictures of my recut and they took my breath away! How is this even the same tourmaline???

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Maybe the photos are deceiving, but it sure looks like the color was completely shifted with the recut - it does look like a completely different stone!

That is hard to believe it is the same stone!! It looks amazing - great recutting job! But... where did all the purple go?

Still not my preferred colour but it looks better than before. Can you post the before and after stats such as the carat weight and mm dimensions please? Also can you note how the colour changed?

Written by Chrono » August 29th, 2012, 6:24 pm:Still not my preferred colour but it looks better than before. Can you post the before and after stats such as the carat weight and mm dimensions please? Also can you note how the colour changed?

Once I have the stone, I will definitely take more of my own pics to compare and provide stats. I have to find my old measurements of it before I sent it to Jerry