Calling All Ruby Experts

[Mikla]

Hi guys!

I'm searching for an unheated ruby. What are your thoughts on stones from Winza? They apparently are larger stones having better clarity than Mong Hsu but may be orange/red or purple/red. Apparently there is less iron in them that Thai stones but much more iron in them than stones from Burma and Mozambique. What impact does that have other than having less fluorescence? I have found one that I like. It's silky and has some fluorescence and is moderately included. I see red, pink, and blue/purple in it though the vendor says there is no zoning.

If you know the name of the vendor, please don't post it here. What do you guys think?

 

[liao]

I am not a ruby expert, but $15025 is too expensive for ruby of this quality. The color is not saturated. I would rather call this stone pink sapphire than ruby. The cutting is not that good either. The pavilion is quite 'fat'. The 'blue' zoning is quite common in winza 'ruby'. try to look for Mozambique ruby. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the iron content of ruby responsible for the 'glowing' characteristic of ruby under short UV light.

Once again, I am not ruby expert. Ruby is not my cup of tea

 

[Niel]

To my eye that looks like a pink sapphire.

But I won't comment further as I'm no expert either.

 

[MJO]

In Burma it is considered a female ruby which is much lighter than a male one.

 

[eastjavaman]

It is a lighter tone than what is considered "Ideal" but in ruby there are variances in reports from lab to lab about the standard of what is considered ruby and what is considered pink sapphire; hence, ultimately not the beauty, but the price difference becomes the matter.
In the picture, this stone might still be considered a ruby. Of course if you can argue it to be pink sapphire, more discount for you.

@liao, Chromium is the one responsible for Ruby's glow and inclusions while Iron cause Ruby to appear blackish, I think.

Personally, I love Pink Sapphire more than Ruby.

 

[AGBF]

I have been away from Colored Stones for too long! I have to admit I didn't have a clue what a Winza ruby was! I didn't even know if Winza was some brand name or a place! Lucky for me, there is now an Internet! So it's in Tanzania, is it? I guess I have some catching up to do. I do not like the stone, by the way. Unless one wants a pink sapphire.

Link to info on Winza rubies...http://www.gemresearch.ch/news/Tanzania/Tanzania.htm

Deb/AGBF

 

[eastjavaman]

From AGBF posting of GRS page, here is the picture of Winza Rubies

http://www.gemresearch.ch/news/Tanzania/Tanznia01.htm

 

[CirrusClouds]

Iron will cause a lack of fluorescence. The more iron, the less fluorescent it will be.
Here is an example:
The Ruby on the left is a faceted North Carolina Star Ruby.
The Ruby on the right is a faceted North Carolina Ruby with higher iron content.



I believe that to be a Ruby. I think photos in better incandescent lighting or natural sunlight would display a much deeper tone than what is pictured. It's a poor display for a "high quality" gem.

Fluorescence of untreated N.C. Rubies under LW UV 380nm

 

[AGBF]

A little bit more education on the new finds among rubies. And guess who is quoted? Our old friend from Pricescope, Vincent Pardieu, who used to post here many years ago under the user name, "Mogok"!!! This article contends that the ban on importing Burma rubies into the US (or perhaps of exporting rubies from Myanmar/Burma) led to the discovery of rubies in several other countries including Tanzania, some of those finds better than finds the world had previously known since the Burmese rubies. It claims that the Winza rubies from Tanzania and Niassa rubies from Mozambique are superior in some ways to rubies from Thailand.

Link to article...http://www.diamonds.net/Magazine/Article.aspx?ArticleID=28110&RDRIssueID=42

Deb/AGBF

 

[minousbijoux]

Beware that the iron content in unheated Winzas has a tendency to make the stone brown out in certain lighting. I would ask to see it in various lighting conditions, especially in bright sunlight.

 

[Marlow]

This is def. a ruby!

Iron "kills" flourescence and gives a brownish color ( trivalent ( Thai)) or ( divalent) and bluish = violett color ( together with Ti).

I think this one will have a lot fluorescence - I have many Winza and Niassa rubies - a sweet color but def. red and no pink sapphire like hot pink Sri Lanka "ruby" - which is sapphire for me ( in a very high and expensive quality)!

 

[treasurehunter]

Always check the stone in as different lightings as possible !
Rule number 1 in gemstone buying .
Florescence trick buy a Chelsea filter they cost about 2dollars and you can see the florescence difference with this easily.

 

[chrono]

Absolutely check for fluoro, find out how much it shifts under indoor lighting AND negotiate pricing by a lot.

 

[Mikla]

Thanks for all the replies! Chrono, you are saying that fluorescence should be present, right? Also, what do you think it's worth if you feel comfortable saying? Or should I just move on to a more red saturated stone?

 

[LoversKites]

Thanks for all the replies! Chrono, you are saying that fluorescence should be present, right? Also, what do you think it's worth if you feel comfortable saying? Or should I just move on to a more red saturated stone?

Fluorescence should absolutely be present in a high quality ruby. I know the vendor from the photography style and I'm not sure how flexible they are on their pricing, nor do I know enough about rubies to suggest it's worth. If I were you I'd move on to a more saturated red. I'd contact Palagems through a jeweler or Richard Hughes or find a different vendor well versed in rubies -- one that is known to sell fine gems.

You should only get what you like. Do you prefer a reddish pink? I think you should prioritize your colour preference.

ETA: I suggest you buy with an AGL prestige report. Especially if you end up paying a premium for origin.

 

[chrono]

Some rubies react to UV and some don't. My preference is for a ruby that fluorescences because they really light up outdoors. I also prefer my ruby redder than pink but it isn't easy to find a stone that has everything, yet is within budget.

 

[partgypsy]

A few years ago I saw a number of winza rubies crop up on Ebay that were attractive (and even more attractive price). I was too much of a cheapskate and the couple I bid, lost out on (only by 100 or so dollars). Since then the prices have gone up quite a bit.

my impression, is to look at examples of stones that are considered top quality, and then look at as many stones as you can.
for me the color of the stone does not bother me (I'd rather have a pinker ruby than a brown one) but the cutting would bother me as it is very bottom heavy. I would keep looking.

 

[Marlow]

These are from the left 3 rubies, 4 hot pink sapphire and 2 pink sapphire and a pinkish purple sapphire..



They ALL fluor with the same intensity...



Fluorescence is only an evidence for a chrome content and low iron - not whether the corundum is a ruby or sapphire...

 

[LoversKites]

Fluorescence is only an evidence for a chrome content and low iron - not whether the corundum is a ruby or sapphire...

Of course, I don't think anyone said otherwise. Do you think that a high quality ruby should fluorescence?

Lovely pics.

 

[LoversKites]

Some rubies react to UV and some don't. My preference is for a ruby that fluorescences because they really light up outdoors. I also prefer my ruby redder than pink but it isn't easy to find a stone that has everything, yet is within budget.

From what I have gathered fluorescence is important in a high quality ruby because it allows it to perform better in some situations, as you said, and the lower iron content means less browning out in others. Isn't that more than just preference? It seems to be a pretty important thing to look for.

 

[Mikla]

How do I contact Richard Hughes? An internet search didn't show me anything other than his gem lab in Bangkok and his books. What jeweler works with Palagems? What other vendors can you recommend? I am just beginning to understand how little I really know about gemstones.

 

[AGBF]

How do I contact Richard Hughes? An internet search didn't show me anything other than his gem lab in Bangkok and his books.

I used to have his e-mail address, but I wouldn't post it on Pricescope even if it were still correct and I do not know if it is. He also had a website at one point. I haven't checked to see if it is still there. Pala should be able to get in touch with him. I will scout around a bit.

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

I just visited his website and read this (which I have seen before):

"Working at Pala was a dream, providing exceptional colored stones to discerning clients. And I loved the people I worked with. Bill, Josh, Gabe and the rest of the Pala staff are beyond belief. Every day surrounded by them was and is a gift, a day added to my life.

If you are in the market for fine gems or minerals, give Josh, Gabe or Bill a holler at 800-854-1598. There are no better people in the business to deal with."

I would give Pala a call at that number. For all we know, Dick may be in the States right now. If not, perhaps someone else at Pala can help you with what you are interested in. It was Pala that found my first stoplight red spinel for me. (I am not clear on how you decided that it should be Dick who would help you find a stone, though. I don't think he does much of that. He happened to have looked at my spinel ten or so years ago because he was working at Pala anyway...but he didn't source it!)

Deb

 

[minousbijoux]

I thought I understood from another PSer that since he has decided to open his own lab/appraisal concern in Thailand, that he is no longer helping those find and choose stones, as it would be a conflict of interest...

 

[Mikla]

That explains why I only found the lab information and the books on the internet. Thanks for the information minousbijoux !

 

[Mikla]

I really appreciate your post, AGBF. I'm going to give it a try!

 

[LoversKites]

I thought I understood from another PSer that since he has decided to open his own lab/appraisal concern in Thailand, that he is no longer helping those find and choose stones, as it would be a conflict of interest...

Oh yeah, I remember that. Sorry OP. Guess there's no harm in contacting him and finding out exactly.

 

[chrono]

Yes, Dick has his own lab in Thailand and I wouldn't ask him because I don't want to put him in such a situation where there is clearly a conflict of interest. If you go to Pala's website, there is a link you can use to find jewellers in your local area who can call in stones on your behalf.

 

[Mikla]

I decided against the rose red ruby. Changing lanes, do you think a spinel is a good substitute? Or is ruby the way to go? Looking for opinions. Just finding it really difficult to find what I really want in a red ruby that won't break the bank, so to speak.

 

[AGBF]

do you think a spinel is a good substitute? Or is ruby the way to go? Looking for opinions.

You can ask for the opinions of others, but not for what is right for you. (At least in my opinion.) It is a personal decision whether you "need" to have a ruby to satisfy you. Once I learned more about red spinels, I opted (twice) to get rings made with (fine) red spinels rather than rubies.

In the past all red stones were considered rubies. Some very famous specific red spinels were mistaken for rubies and named as rubies. There are red spinels in the British crown jewels (the most famous one being the Black Prince's Ruby ), jewels kept at the Kremlin and in the Crown Jewels of Iran.

Link...http://www.collectorfinejewelry.com/buyers_guide_spinel.htm

Deb/AGBF