Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement Ring

[ChrisPowers]

Hello, PriceScope members! I've been searching for many weeks now for a sapphire to be used as a center stone in a platinum halo engagement ring, and have finally accepted my limitations and realized it's time I went to the experts for advice.

After much research both online and on foot, I've decided upon a platinum halo engagement ring with a sapphire center stone. I'll describe what I'm looking for in as much detail as I can manage, and hopefully you guys can tell me if I'm crazy for thinking I can find this, or point me in the right direction if I'm not. My budget for the stone, after subtracting the cost of the setting, is in the $3500 to $4500 range, although I might be willing to bump it up a tad for the "perfect" stone.

My (and her) preference is for an oval cut or rectangular cushion cut. It needs to be an unheated stone of rich blue color. Describing color is obviously difficult, but from what I've seen thus far, cornflower blue and royal blue are the two terms I encounter most often when stumbling upon a stone I like. Ideally, the stone would be eye clean or better with a clean cut and minimal to no windowing or exclusions. Sizewise, I'm hoping for something in the 1.5 to 2 ct range depending on dimensions. I realize that shallower cuts can mean a larger face, but judging just how shallow is too shallow has not been easy for me. I also would prefer as symmetrical a cut as possible.

So, what do you guys think? Do I have a snowball's chance in hell of finding this, or do I need to adjust my expectations? If the latter, where would you be most willing to compromise and why? For me, the most important qualities I'm looking for are: value retention and color. That said, and knowing myself, I would have difficulty buying a stone with visible occlusions in it. Perhaps where I'm most flexible is in cut and size (i.e. I would prefer a more vivid 1.5 ct stone to a less vivid 2.0 ct at the same price point).

Thanks for reading!

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I live in the New York City area and work in Manhattan, so looking at stones in person is quite doable, although I am open to ordering online from reputable vendors as well. To give you guys an idea of the sort of stones I'm looking at, or have looked at in the past:

Here's my favorite of what I saw from The Natural Sapphire company. It's outside my price range now, but it had the richest color of all the stones I've seen in person. Unfortunately, it's quite shallow, and I looked at it before I knew about windowing, so I'd need to look at it again to form an opinion on it:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/p-55202-oval-blue-sapphire-b6248/

Here's another example of a stone whose length and width defies its carat weight due to its being relatively shallow, except this one is within my price range:

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-1.37-carats.html-0

Here's one that IGI suggest is from Kashmir and the price reflects that. It's a bit smaller than what I'd like and the cut is very asymmetrical, but the color appears nice and if the certification can be trusted, that's quite something:

http://www.starruby.in/store/kashmir-sapphires/1-30-carat-top-grade-vivid-royal-blue-unheated-kashmir-sapphire

Marc from AfricaGems was nice enough to put together a video of this stone for me, although I recently started leaning less toward the round cuts. The color in the photos is quite different from the video, but I thought it was nice either way:

http://www.africagems.com/round-blue-sapphire-g2k-5453.html

Finally, here's one from FineWater Gems that's also lovely, but just happens to be a bit bigger and hence more expensive than I'm looking for:

http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html (2.41 ct Untreated Blue Sapphire, 8th from the top. The first stone is also beautiful, but has been heated.)

I hope this helps give you all an idea of what it is I'm looking for, and/or just how hopelessly misguided I might be. Any insight you can provide is most welcome.

 

[chrono]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Something has to give for your budget. The colour you are looking for is the most expensive, coupled with wanting it to be untreated.

2.05 ct unheated oval sapphire for $3700 with AGL report, and another for $4100.
http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html

Contact the vendor below to see what they can find for you.
Joe Escobar - http://www.escobardiamonds.com

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Hi Chrono,

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my post. I took your advice and contacted Escobar Diamonds to see if they might be able to help me. Hopefully, they'll get back to me with good news.

Regarding the sapphires you referenced on finewatergems.com, they're both very nice, but are a bit lighter in color than what I'm looking for. That may be unclear from my post, since I'm relatively new to the game. If so, can you give me some advice on how to better verbalize exactly what color I'm looking for? I realize that the deep blue I like is more expensive, but am willing to settle on a smaller stone to get it.

For example, the 2.41 ct Untreated Blue Sapphire on that page is much closer to the color I'm seeking, but the stone just happens to be so big as to put it outside my price range. Here's a question, and gets to why I'm under the impression (delusion?) that I might be able to find what I'm looking for: if that particular stone were smaller (say, 1.5 to 1.75 ct), but just as "well proportioned," how much would you speculate it might cost? I was under the impression that a stone like that might fall just above my price range, in which case I would probably be willing to exceed my budget to buy it if it is precisely what I'm looking for.

Is that an unreasonable assumption, do you think?

 

[Niel]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Its best to post photos of what color you're looking for,a picture is worth 1000 words, after all

 

[chrono]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I'd suggest going just a tad lighter than your desired colour since you plan to halo the sapphire because the halo setting will darken the sapphire tone one notch once set. If you are willing to drop down to around 1.5 ct, there is a good possibility than your $4K budget is sufficient for an unheated stone. I hope you aren't in a time crunch?

 

[chrono]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

If you see something you like here, Pearlman's can give you a quote and call it in.
http://www.gem2000.com/index.php

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Its best to post photos of what color you're looking for,a picture is worth 1000 words, after all

Excellent point, thanks. Here are a few images that capture the essence of what I'm going for. Perhaps it's not even possible to find unheated stones in these colors?

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

To be honest, that first (heated) stone on finewatergems.com is pretty close, to me. Attached is a photo. Check out the video and I think you'll see what I mean:

http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html

The color just seems to "pop."

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I'd suggest going just a tad lighter than your desired colour since you plan to halo the sapphire because the halo setting will darken the sapphire tone one notch once set.

Thanks for that suggestion. I've asked jewelers before, and they always say it should be insignificant, but that never sat right with me. Now, the only obstacle left is figuring out exactly what "one notch" looks like!

I hope you aren't in a time crunch?

Sooner is always better than later, but it's more important to me that I get the right stone than that I get the stone quickly.

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

If you see something you like here, Pearlman's can give you a quote and call it in.
http://www.gem2000.com/index.php

Thanks for that suggestion. Unfortunately, I didn't find anything I liked in the list that was unheated. However, I did notice this heated beauty:

http://www.gem2000.com/cart.php?action=add&id=6105

Not for me, but perhaps someone who happens across this thread will be less fanatical about heat treatments than I am.

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

So, I've come across a few more stones that I'd welcome any opinions on. They are:

This 1.88 ct from Astrological Gem with an AGL brief and a price that's right in my range:

http://www.astrologicalgem.com/popups/BS1-88OV705x623x502.php

This 1.54 ct from Wild Fish Gems, also within my range:

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/10883/18056

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Also, I've been in correspondence with Harshil from starruby.in. He was nice enough to send me some additional photos he came across of one of the stones in their inventory that they classify as being Kashmiri in origin. He says they have a GIA certificate for it, although there's no mention of that on the product page for whatever reason.

Anyway, the stone is outside my price range, and appears to have more bumps and bruises than I would be comfortable with, but I'm posting some of the photos anyway because I found the color to be really remarkable.

 

[Niel]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I'd listen to chrono on the subject of color and halos. They will darken the stone. I fear a stone that color in a halo will be too dark

 

[chrono]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I am more cautious when purchasing from vendors who are in the business of selling gemstones for spiritual purposes. These gems generally are not of high quality and customer service can be dicey.

Undisclosed crack in the gem from the vendor you are considering buying from.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/jay-boyle-company-astrological-gem/fairfield-iowa-52556-2472/jay-boyle-company-astrological-gem-jay-boyle-mark-e-kirbach-tarah-sands-tiffany-sold-a-1128779

You can also do your own search on WildFish. Some have had success but I remain extremely doubtful of their very colourful and bright photography.

The Starruby sapphire is overly dark (likely to black out once set), is shallow like a pancake and the zoning/banding might be visible to the eye at times. It is not something I would purchase for an e-ring if I had $4K to spend.

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I'd listen to chrono on the subject of color and halos. They will darken the stone. I fear a stone that color in a halo will be too dark

Thanks, Niel. The specific setting I'm looking at is (or will be very similar to) this one from Victor Canera:

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-emilya-halo-solitaire

The biggest difference being, in all likelihood, I will request stones on the halo only and none on the prongs or shank.

Do you guys still feel the difference in color will be enough to merit going lighter than my ideal color?

 

[chrono]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Sapphires are very shifty stones. The pictures you see online by vendors portray the best of its looks, meaning that they are generally not always that stunning blue. When indoors, they will shift. Some will hardly shift, some will become a bit purplish, some will become a bit grayer but most will darken. Some will darken considerably and some just "die".

The setting you shared is very low set, which doesn't allow much light into the stone.

 

[MollyMalone]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

P.S.

I am more cautious when purchasing from vendors who are in the business of selling gemstones for spiritual purposes. These gems generally are not of high quality and customer service can be dicey.

Undisclosed crack in the gem from the vendor you are considering buying from.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/jay-boyle-company-astrological-gem/fairfield-iowa-52556-2472/jay-boyle-company-astrological-gem-jay-boyle-mark-e-kirbach-tarah-sands-tiffany-sold-a-1128779

I too would be very leery, but not because of that reportedly undisclosed crack. The rants posted at the time here on PS and elsewhere on the 'net were "over the top" and did not all hang together. The guy has since posted an apologetic retraction on RipoffReport:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/jay-b...-tarah-sands-tiffany-sold-a-1128779#comment_1

 

[chrono]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

There is no universal clarity and colour grading standard for coloured gemstones so the vendor's VVS1 clarity grading is based on their estimation, not per GIA or any other labs' standards. That said, a VVS1 graded stone should have inclusions that are barely visible under loupe.

The entire exchange between vendor and customer did not sit well with me, with how both sides handled the issue and would be struck off my list based on that alone.

 

[GregS]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I would suggest not letting yourself get too hung up on a Sapphire being unheated. All Sapphires naturally receive extreme amounts of heat and pressure when forming.

 

[Marlow]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Chrono: 1+

I know a vendor ( o.k. most time spec. in minerals) who sell some stones as EY - and they are LI!!!!!

Has anybody experience with Starruby?? Are the pictures o.k.???

 

[Niel]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I would suggest not letting yourself get too hung up on a Sapphire being unheated. All Sapphires naturally receive extreme amounts of heat and pressure when forming.

I'm inclined to agree. If it had to be a specific shape, a trade ideal color, and be under 5k,as chrono said,something's got to give

 

[GregS]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Chrono: 1+

I know a vendor ( o.k. most time spec. in minerals) who sell some stones as EY - and they are LI!!!!!

Has anybody experience with Starruby?? Are the pictures o.k.???

Somebody recently bought a really expensive Alexandrite from them. I have been looking for their thread to pop back up with updates so I could get an idea as to how accurate their pictures are.

I have always been turned off by them. They have a plethora of Russian Alexandrite, which is in and off itself fishy, their pictures looked photoshopped and they use the diamond clarity scale for their colored stones. They're also overseas, so returns would be a nightmare.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Unheated within your budget and you're really looking at a severely dinky stone. Heat treatment is perfectly acceptable as long as its disclosed. Mastercutgems has several on his website that look good, and he may be able to do better on price if you ask. Several of them already have a AGL brief, so its a step you wouldn't have to take.

Wildfish gems; I don't tend to have too many issues reading the gems there, but I have a highly calibrated monster of a monitor. As a learning experience, it would be worth going over there to look. If you have questions, just ask him.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Chrono: 1+

I know a vendor ( o.k. most time spec. in minerals) who sell some stones as EY - and they are LI!!!!!

Has anybody experience with Starruby?? Are the pictures o.k.???

I purchased from them several years ago. You have to ask A LOT of questions if you're unsure but I will say that what I purchased was legit and, looked better than the photo. Their images can be flooded with light though, so you really do have to be careful when buying from them.

 

[PieAreSquared]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I would suggest not letting yourself get too hung up on a Sapphire being unheated. All Sapphires naturally receive extreme amounts of heat and pressure when forming.

I'm inclined to agree. If it had to be a specific shape, a trade ideal color, and be under 5k,as chrono said,something's got to give

+1
Exactly what I was going to say. What is wrong with heat, if it is disclosed? All sapphires are heated either while forming inside the earth, or carefully regulated inside a kiln. Either way, the treatment is stable and permanent. COLOR is king!

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

I too would be very leery, but not because of that reportedly undisclosed crack. The rants posted at the time here on PS and elsewhere on the 'net were "over the top" and did not all hang together. The guy has since posted an apologetic retraction on RipoffReport:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/jay-b...-tarah-sands-tiffany-sold-a-1128779#comment_1

I noticed that. It's almost hard to believe that's the same person. I thought it must be a bogus post after the conniption the guy threw in the previous two posts was followed by that glowing review, but then I don't know how rigorous Ripoff Report is about confirming identity. I'm not sure I can judge the vendor one way or another based off that report, personally.

 

[ChrisPowers]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Thanks for all the insight, everybody.

I understand the reservations surrounding the unheated requirement. I just feel that unheated stones will retain more of their value over time vs. their treated counterparts, and may even appreciate in value as fewer and fewer gem quality sapphires are mined over time. I'm sure that's a very contentious position, but it's my best assessment, and the actual value of the ring does matter to me as much as the appearance.

Arcadian, when you say $5000 can't buy an unheated ring that isn't "dinky," what do you mean exactly? Dinky in terms of size, or just overall quality?

What do you guys think of this stone from AJS Gems:

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-1.37-carats.html-0

Is the TGL certificate not worth the paper it's printed on?

 

[GregS]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Thanks for all the insight, everybody.

I understand the reservations surrounding the unheated requirement. I just feel that unheated stones will retain more of their value over time vs. their treated counterparts, and may even appreciate in value as fewer and fewer gem quality sapphires are mined over time. I'm sure that's a very contentious position, but it's my best assessment, and the actual value of the ring does matter to me as much as the appearance.

Arcadian, when you say $5000 can't buy an unheated ring that isn't "dinky," what do you mean exactly? Dinky in terms of size, or just overall quality?

What do you guys think of this stone from AJS Gems:

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-1.37-carats.html-0

Is the TGL certificate not worth the paper it's printed on?

It's dark in tone, inky.

Africa Gems had some very nice unheated Sapphires in your price range like these two...

http://www.africagems.com/sapph-blue-g2k-3747.html
http://www.africagems.com/blue-sapphire-oval-g2k-92107389.html

But both are sold. So it's not impossible to find a good one that's unheated in your price range. It's just a lot more difficult.

 

[Niel]

Re: Advice on Finding Sapphire Center Stone for Engagement R

Thanks for all the insight, everybody.

I understand the reservations surrounding the unheated requirement. I just feel that unheated stones will retain more of their value over time vs. their treated counterparts, and may even appreciate in value as fewer and fewer gem quality sapphires are mined over time. I'm sure that's a very contentious position, but it's my best assessment, and the actual value of the ring does matter to me as much as the appearance.

Arcadian, when you say $5000 can't buy an unheated ring that isn't "dinky," what do you mean exactly? Dinky in terms of size, or just overall quality?

What do you guys think of this stone from AJS Gems:

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-1.37-carats.html-0

Is the TGL certificate not worth the paper it's printed on?

Then be prepared to possibly have to compromise somewhere else, be it size, shape, color or price. Or, it just takes quite some time to find