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218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment please

Mandalay

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
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61
Hi, it's been a long time since we chat.
Can someone comment and give price on the 80% clean 218 Carats unheated Burmese Blue Sapphire rough ?
Man.

_11792.jpg

_11793.jpg
 

endless_summer

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Holy cow - that is quite the rock! no clue on price, but wow.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Based on your user name, Mandalay, I'm assuming you live in Burma/Myanmar. If so, have you been able to ascertain prices realized at the 2013 Myanmar Gems Emporium auctions this summer; perhaps the Myanmar Gems & Jewellry Entrepreneurs Association makes that information available?
http://mgjea.org/

Since 2003 and until recently, the US banned the import-export of all rough, finished gems and jewelry from Burma -- as did, I think, the EU and Australia (the US ban is still in place for rubies and jade). So I imagine few people here on PriceScope are able to offer a reliable estimate.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Hi,

Its a beautiful color blue that shows that glow inside. My question would be that it appears to be included(80% clean). I'm thinking it might make gorgeous cabachons, not faceted stones? I know you wil be asked about treatments(burners=heat treatment)) and that will affect price.

For me the color is lovely, but i have no idea on price. Good Luck--make some nice jewels out of it.


Annette
 

Mandalay

Rough_Rock
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61
Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Hi This rough can be cut into a good eye clean Gem of over 150 carats. Its not Cabochon material.
 

AN0NYM0US

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
328
Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Somewhere between $1.00-$10,000,000,000

No need to thank me. I'm just doing my job as an unqualified, anonymous poster on an open, public message forum making valuations from static cell phone pictures.

ETA: That price is in USD
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Mandalay|1384320225|3555648 said:
Hi This rough can be cut into a good eye clean Gem of over 150 carats. Its not Cabochon material.

Are you saying the rough will yield a single large stone versus 2 large stones and several smaller stones?
Your estimate of nearly 70% yield is also overly generous. Most cut (finished) stones are around 30% of the original material at best.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

AN0NYM0US|1384347182|3555717 said:
Somewhere between $1.00-$10,000,000,000

No need to thank me. I'm just doing my job as an unqualified, anonymous poster on an open, public message forum making valuations from static cell phone pictures.

ETA: That price is in USD

well said. :lol:
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

IF that thing is the real Mc Coy, it will cut way over the normal 20% and it is definitely facet grade. 30% is still low, 70% sounds overly optimistic. Cannot tell from the pics if it could cut a stone over 100 carats but maybe. Normally a stone dealer from Burma is also a stone cutter and they generally sell the rough after calculating a fairly exact finish product, however, zeros can often be moved during negotiations. Best regards, Lee
 

Iconjewels

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Upwards of 75,000 a carat in rough format.... As much as 150 to 250k per carat post cut polish...depending on yield in both quantity and quality of Finish... Great piece of rough...
 

cm366

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
434
Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Iconjewels|1391933560|3611303 said:
Upwards of 75,000 a carat in rough format.... As much as 150 to 250k per carat post cut polish...depending on yield in both quantity and quality of Finish... Great piece of rough...

This would seem to be well over the world record price for sapphire at auction.....
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
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19,456
Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Edward Bristol|1391946360|3611340 said:
AN0NYM0US|1384347182|3555717 said:
Somewhere between $1.00-$10,000,000,000

Nah, lets be realistic!

Say $50.00 to 10,000,000,000,

At least you can use it as a nice letter holder if it is synthetic
:appl:
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

I had an interesting conversation with a close friend of mine that is very related to this thread. He showed me the exact same picture of Sapphire rough along with an AIGS report on the same stone. He also showed me copies of bank deposits. He said that he assisted in the sale of this rough. I won't say the price out of courtesy to the buyer but it was a stunning amount. Also to clarify, the carat weight was 512.66, NOT 218 like this thread says. Notice that it also says the 512 carat weight on one of the pictures so I can only wonder why the original poster mentioned 218 carat. This rough was reported to have been mined in Mogok over 20 years ago. No sign of heat according to AIGS and it was indeed facet grade. And I was doubtful that such a stone even existed. Best regards, Lee
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

:love: :appl: :love: :appl: I guess it's good to know that there are treasures like this in the world today. Any clue if it will ever be seen in the future---cut and polished? That's meant to be a simple yes or no question......no details.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

That is so neat to hear, Lee! Was the sale your colleague told you about a recent one, or did it occur back when that rough was first mined 20 years ago? If so, I'm sure its long since been faceted. I, too, would love to know where/how it ended up.
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

I am pretty sure it will be cut and polished but whether or not we will know the exact trail or not, I dunno/ I normally see my friend about once a month and since I took almost a month out of my normal schedule to work with another friend in the Philippines, it had been almost 2 months since we had talked but it was the first thing out of his mouth and he was very excited about it. I did not put this forum and his story together until I saw the picture again here because the carat weight was so distorted. According to the date on the bank statement, this was a quite recent transaction. Best regards, Lee
 

JewelFreak

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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

What a fantastic story! I would've bet my house it wasn't real. Nice to know those things really happen once in a...blue...moon. :bigsmile:
 

chrono

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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Any idea why the previous owner sat on the rough for nearly twenty years, not cutting it and selling it then? Do you think it is because he's hoping the price will go up and he'll be able to sell it for more years down the road, as it happened last year?
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

An update on this rare stone. The seller decided not to complete the transaction thus he is still 'sitting' on it and it is still for sale.
Owning and selling something like this is very dangerous and he feared for his life during the transaction thus refused to complete it. The buyer was from a middle eastern country and the price was $55,000,000.00. I share the price now since the sale did not happen.
The problem stemmed from a 'friend' that the buyer brought with him to the deal. This friend is known to be very powerful in Thailand, close ties and relationships with both the government and the military. The seller feared he would be shot during the transaction if he showed the stone to the 'friend'. Having 55 million USD in the bank is no consolation to having a bullet in the chest.
The stone may be viewed by interested parties once they meet here in person and show their money first, (and not bring along a known killer as a 'witness'.) I can get arrangements for the meeting started though I am not directly associated.
Things like this make me thankful that I do primarily small transactions. Best regards, Lee
 

LoversKites

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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

55 million?!??! Wow! Thanks for updating this interesting thread Lee.
 

chrono

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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Lee,
Are most gem transactions involving large sums of money that dangerous to one's life? Would this friend of yours be safer selecting a different sale avenue (through a large 3rd party)?
 

JewelFreak

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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Chrono said:
Would this friend of yours be safer selecting a different sale avenue (through a large 3rd party)?
Yeah, with a backup army? I imagine he's nervous anyhow now that word is out he has such a stone. Hope he stays safe, wow.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

If the rough is worth millions, why not go through an auction house or something? The profit he will make will more than cover the cost and he will stay safe. I'm sure the large auction houses will provide a safe location and the necessary security. In addition, the auction house will be highly unlikely to say who the seller is, further keeping him from harm.
 

Lee Little

Shiny_Rock
Trade
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

An auction house is a good suggestion, thank you.
It must be one that has no ban on Burmese goods, perhaps Christy's in HK??? Please suggest exact links so I may pass them along if you know them. Sure I could research it but I am already about as busy as a paperhanger with one good arm. That is why you don't see me here often.
Anyway it is funny that JF mentioned a backup army, he does have one.
Chrono, I don't know a darned thing about transactions this size. I am sure that some people are familiar with this scale and all the safeguards are in place. For the parties involved that I know, this is new. Best regards, Lee
 

chrono

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JewelFreak

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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Lee, I'm sure the auction houses have dealt with similar scenarios & know how to handle this kind of thing -- I'd be very surprised & disappointed if not. Please let us know how this works out! Here's some info:

Both Sotheby's & Christie's do private sales as well as auctions -- that might be the better avenue for this. These are contact numbers for private sales for Jewelry.

Christies

Jewelry
France
Julien Brunie
[email protected]
Tel: +33 1 40 76 83 82

New York
Rahul Kadakia
[email protected]
Tel: +1 212 636 2300

Hong Kong
Vickie Sek
[email protected]
Tel: +852 2978 9922

And below are Christie's Asian contacts for auction info.

Hong Kong
General Inquiries:
Tel: +852 2760 1766
Fax: +852 2760 1767

Indonesia
Jakarta
Amalia Wirjono
[email protected]
Tel: +62 (0)21 7278 6268
Fax: +62 (0)21 7278 6282

Tokyo
Ryutaro Katayama
Meiji Seimei Kan 4F, 2-1-1 Marunouchi
Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-0005
[email protected]
Tel: +81 (0)3 6267 1766
Fax: +81 (0)3 6267 1767

Singapore
Tang Wen Li
[email protected]
Tel: +65 6235 3828
Fax: +65 6235 8128

Thailand
Bangkok
Yaovanee Nirandara
[email protected]
Tel: + 66 2 652 1097
Fax: + 66 2 652 1098

Taiwan
Taipei
Ada Ong
[email protected]
Tel: +886 2 2736 3356
Fax: +886 2 2736 4856

For Sotheby's, this is the web page dealing with their process for private sales: http://www.sothebys.com/en/gallery/selling-privately.html

Sotheby's contacts in Hong Kong:

Chin Yeow Quek
Deputy Chairman, Asia
Chairman International Jewellery, Asia
Tel: +852 2822 8177
[email protected]

Terry Chu
Deputy Head of Department,
Senior Director, China & Southeast Asia Jewellery
Tel: +852 2822 8153
Fax: +852 2521 0588
[email protected]

Flora Wong
Director, Senior Specialist Jewelry
[email protected]
Tel: +852 2822 8114
 

LD

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

I recently had to speak with both Sotheby's and Christies in London and they were exceptionally helpful. They will either deal with the item themselves or if they feel that the market is more buoyant in Hong Kong, may well ask their colleagues to take over the transaction. It's worth a phone call and sending them photos Lee.

BTW have you noticed the Trapiche markings at the bottom of the stone?
 

RedSpinel

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Messages
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Chrono|1392137588|3612803 said:
Any idea why the previous owner sat on the rough for nearly twenty years, not cutting it and selling it then? Do you think it is because he's hoping the price will go up and he'll be able to sell it for more years down the road, as it happened last year?

Why is it that I am seeing red flags while reading this thread? I was wondering the same thing as you^! Isnt it odd that someone would procure an enormous and seemingly wonderful chunk of sapphire rough, then sit on it for 20 years? You do hear stories of people buying large cut stones, sticking them in a vault somewhere and selling them later on once the price has gone up, and I guess its true that someone could do the same with rough, but I dont know...........

Another poster said he had seen this exact same piece some time ago, at over 500 cts, now its being presented as 218cts, maybe its size has been reduced due to part of it already having been removed and cut into gems. But if that were the case, then the member here wouldnt have recognized it as the same stone he saw before.

The bottom picture appears to be fairly clean from what little we can see of it, and if it is, that could be worth a LOT of money. I would be surprised if its clean enough to be cut into just one or two stones. It wouldnt be 75,000 per carat or more unless it is cut into one or 2 large, really clean stones. Even then I think that would be high.

Forgive my cynicism, but it often helps to be wary when it comes to colored gems.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: 218 carats Unheated Burmese Sapphire. Price comment plea

Laurie: great info on the auction houses. LD: so great to see you here! It sounds like you have had the most recent direct experience, so I would definitely follow up on your suggestions. Oh, and thanks for pointing out the trapiche! I had completely missed it until you mentioned it. :))
 
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