100% Natural Unheated Ruby - Estimated Retail Value???

[STOJA002]

Hi.

I purchased a Ruby for some years ago, paid a LOT!
I know it's very hard to find excellent Ruby's like this one.
I've been in the jewelry business for many years now and I've never seen a Ruby like this one.

I just wonder what you guys think the Estimated Retail Value should be for this Ruby?

I'm unable to scan the GIA certificate, but I'll add a text-picture exactly as writed at the GIA Report.
NB! The blue text/line is mine - the Ruby contains nice silk paterns!

The ruby is 100% as pictured, not enhanced or Photoshop'ed in any way at all!
The ruby has a lot of fire, almost like a diamond - not foggy as it looks when uploaded here!

All responce is appreciated!

 

[gongli]

you can compare against these

http://www.naturalunheatedruby.com/over_2_0_ct

 

[STOJA001]

Thank you very much for your answer!

I was in contact with a friend of mine, working at GIA (Gemological Institute of America) yesterday.
She told me I could easily get approx. $40,000.00 per carat, approx. $133,600.00 in total.
I dont know if this is correct tho'. But I've seen Ruby's with same Origin going as high as $200,000.00 for same size as well.

Have a nice day!

 

[Pandora II]

I'm afraid I don't think it's worth anywhere near that amount.

It's purpleish red which is not a premium colour and it's also quite a dark stone. It appears to be pretty included. It's from Tanzania which doesn't carry the premium that somewhere like Burma does. On the plus side it is big.

I would think it's more likely to be under $15k. I saw one recently that was around 2cts from the same source, a better colour and set in a ring - the retail price was a fair bit under $10k.

Those kind of prices are for extremely fine quality, premium colour stones from Burma.

 

[STOJA001]

I really dont know.

My friend at GIA know the origin and has seen the report.
And she told I could get easily $40,000.00 per carat for this exactly Ruby.
I dont know 100% sure tho', because I haven't had it estimated and get an estimate here in Europe is like get a lollipop estimated, they're just a joke!

I have also seen Ruby's with same size, color, origin etc. going for $200,000.00 at Sotheby's and Christie's.
The Ruby is NOT included, it has a lot of silk - but is clear as glass and is "blood red" under incident light.
I have also seen Ruby's with same Origin going for $30,000.00 in Asia with GIA Report, and peoples pay for it as well.

Thank you very much for your responce!
I'm so confused with Ruby Origins, that's why I'm asking. I know Burma is #1, of course.
But as I know, Ruby's from Tanzania (Winza) is #2, and is not the same as Mozambique or Mogok garbage.

 

[Pandora II]

I really dont know.

My friend at GIA know the origin and has seen the report.
And she told I could get easily $40,000.00 per carat for this exactly Ruby.
I dont know 100% sure tho', because I haven't had it estimated and get an estimate here in Europe is like get a lollipop estimated, they're just a joke!

I have also seen Ruby's with same size, color, origin etc. going for $200,000.00 at Sotheby's and Christie's.
The Ruby is NOT included, it has a lot of silk - but is clear as glass and is "blood red" under incident light.
I have also seen Ruby's with same Origin going for $30,000.00 in Asia with GIA Report, and peoples pay for it as well.

Thank you very much for your responce!
I'm so confused with Ruby Origins, that's why I'm asking. I know Burma is #1, of course.
But as I know, Ruby's from Tanzania (Winza) is #2, and is not the same as Mozambique or Mogok garbage.

Where in Europe are you based? I might be able to give you some pointers.

By incident light do you mean incandescent or daylight? Gems should really be judged in north-facing daylight. The report states purpleish red which would not qualify the stone for ulra-fine status.

Mogok is the most famous location in Burma for fine rubies, so hardly garbage.

According to Dick Hughes' site, the rankings for locality premium are:
1.Mogok, Burma
2.Sri Lanka
3.Madagascar
4.Nanyazeik, Burma
5.Everything else - including Tanzania.

You really need to find a proper appraiser. It's also worth bearing in mind that it is unlikely that you will achieve an appraised price unless you have an avenue for selling retail, dealers will offer you a considerable percentage below the retail price.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[STOJA001]

Sorry, I didn't mean Mogok (Burma). But I know that Winza (Tanzania) Ruby's is not same garbage as Mozambique, unstable exploding Ruby's - no thanks.

I based in Norway, close to the Swedish border.
It's very hard to get a decent appraisal here, I got a diamond ring appraised here once. Norwegian appraisal said $2,730.00 - I know diamonds better than that, so I got it appraised in Los Angeles as well - American appraisal said $8,345.00. So I dont trust graders here, they're just some kind of jealous when walking into a jewelry store, asking weird questions as how I could afford a diamond ring like this, where I purchased it, which store, etc etc.

Under fluorescent light it's kinda Purplish Pinkish Red.
But in incandescent light it's "vivid blood red".
In day light (strong sunlight) it's "vivid electric purple" and is very very very clear with only 1 silk line.

Thank you for your answer!

 

[Pandora II]

For an appraiser, you need someone independent not someone who owns a jewellery store as they have a conflict of interest.

Gemstones also shouldn't be appraised in strong sunlight - slightly overcast is best.

I know a couple of gemmologists in Sweden, I can have a word and see if they know a reputable appraiser there or in Norway if that would help.

 

[STOJA001]

Thank you very very much for your help!
I would really appreciate it!

Yes, you're probably right about that one for sure.
Maybe I should take a visit and just try to get it appraised at Norges Gullsmedforbund (Norwegian Association of Goldsmith). They do not deal with jewelries, only estimate value and give appraisals. Never used them before tho', but they are the only real appraisers here in Norway I think, was reading about them in the news-paper. Have been a lot of complaints here in the jewelry industry because graders dont know what they're talking about, but Norwegian Association of Goldsmith got 5/5 star. Maybe I should try them, if I dont like the results - I can just get it appraised somewhere else as well.

There's one more problem getting it appraised here, I sell almost all diamonds and gemstones to the United States, so the valuta will be a little trouble for the American's I suppose. But of course, I can ask them if they could give me an appraisal in English with US dollar valuta.

Also one more question;
Do you think I should set the ruby in a ring of 18 karat white gold or in 950 Platinum? I got the funds to cover both, I'm just not 100% sure about what people would prefer - and if it's any idea at all mounting it in a Platinum ring? I use to only mount diamonds in Platinum, but yeah.......

In slightly overcast (I suppose - it's winter here and sun - but clock is 3:35 PM) - the color is same as the attached picture:

 

[Pandora II]

I'll let you know as soon as I have some suggestions, I've left messages with the people.

I wouldn't set the stone at all - unless most of your customers prefer to buy things already set - you will be reducing your potential market.

You could always suggest ideas for settings as part of advertising it.

 

[STOJA001]

Hmm.. Yes, it's a very good idea!
But most of the customers want the products ASAP and the mounting process takes approx. 10-14 days because I dont mount it myself. I have mounted some by myself, and turned out perfect. But I'm so afraid of ruin it in any way, so I have to send them to a mounter in Sweden. But of course, if someone really like an item - they'd probably wait 20-25 days for delivery I suppose.

 

[Pandora II]

Hmm.. Yes, it's a very good idea!
But most of the customers want the products ASAP and the mounting process takes approx. 10-14 days because I dont mount it myself. I have mounted some by myself, and turned out perfect. But I'm so afraid of ruin it in any way, so I have to send them to a mounter in Sweden. But of course, if someone really like an item - they'd probably wait 20-25 days for delivery I suppose.

If someone is spending $$$ on a ruby then they may well want to use their own jeweller, and I'm sure they would have no issues with waiting for a piece to be made - if they even wanted to set the stone.

A lot of people just collect loose stones!

(I sometimes buy pieces of jewellery and remove the stones for my collection)

 

[STOJA001]

Yes, I think you're right...
I've just been looking thru all receipts/payments. And it looks like I earn more selling loose diamonds and gemstones - rather then selling jewelry or mount them. But do you know any place online where I'm able to get a good price?

 

[STOJA001]

And by the way - the ring you has as picture here at PriceScope is beautyful - I really like it!
Is it a natural Tsavorite Garnet?

 

[Barrett]

Your stone is worth no more than $10,000-$15,000US at most. Whoever told you $40,000 A CARAT is off their rocker. Ask them if they want to buy it for $15,000a ct. or even $10,000 a carat($25,000 off what they think it's worth) and see what they say. Tanzania doesn't carry the premium like Pandora said..chances are it's chalk full of Iron so doesn't fluoresce. The color is typical purplish red as seen in most rubies. It has some size to it but size is second-hand to color. Color is king.(fluorescence)

 

[STOJA001]

Your answer is appreciated!

How to see if a Ruby does got fluroscence?
I've been in the Diamond business for some years, but Gemstones is a new try.
Is it the same for Ruby's as for Diamonds?

Please also please check this; [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-report-with-origin-opinion-or-without.166993/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-report-with-origin-opinion-or-without.166993/[/URL]

 

[Pandora II]

Gemstones are a whole different ballgame from diamonds - and much, much more complicated.

To check for fluorescence, you need to use a UV light (you can buy a cheap one for a few pounds on eBay or similar).

If you take a stone with a lot of fluorescence out into the sun, it will literally glow back at you. The cause is the chromium content in the stone. Unfortunately, iron is a destroyer of fluorescence and Tanzanian stones tend to have a lot of iron in the make-up. Strong fluorescence is a desirable quality in red stones such as rubies, pink sapphires and red spinels.

Thank you for the compliment on my ring. It's my engagement ring and is a 1.42ct tsavorite garnet.

 

[connyf]

I agree with Amethystguy, I have lately seen rubies around 2.5 cts with same clarity and color, as far as possible to judge by images, sell for 2400 USD so if you can get 10-15K for your piece, go for it. The ones I saw where from other part of Africa but also completely untreated.

 

[STOJA001]

Just as I thought...
Thanks for letting me know, I'll try to see if there's any fluorescence in any of my Ruby's.
Got a 2.02, 3.02, 3.34, 4.35 - all unheated (NTE).

The 2.02 carat vs. the 3.34 carat - the 2.02 carat is more Pinkish Red tho', but it's really sparkling and glows a LOT.
It's only certified by AIGS (Asian Institute of Gemological Sciences), so I suppose I should get it GIA certified as well.
I dont know, but I suppose GIA is the only Laboratory I trust...

When uploading pictures here, the quality of the pictures kind of dissapear - please see pictures here;
http://www.4shared.com/photo/3YRImlMM/Center.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/zVoCUJeV/Picture.html

 

[STOJA001]

Thank you for your response!

Yes, but as far as I know - a Ruby from example Mozambique is NOT the same as a Tanzanian Ruby at all.
I've seen a lot of different Ruby's - when comparing a Mozambique Ruby to a Tanzanian Ruby - it's like day and night in sparkle etc.

 

[STOJA001]

OK... I've justed tested a UV lamp. I dont know if the wave-length has something to say?
I actually used a teeth whitener - strong dental lamp from dentist office - high mode (6000mw/cm2) - low mode (3000mw/cm2).
Tried both wave-lengths, but no difference.

I suppose a Ruby with fluorescence should turn into a glowing orange color?
If so, the 3.34 carat Ruby we're talking about has no fluroscence, no reaction to the light - only looks INTENSE deep blood red.
But the 2.02 carat Ruby got intense orange fluorescence - probably VVS1 clarity for being a Ruby as well.
The 4.35 carat Ruby turns slightly orange - it looks like a FL/I3 - it's clear as glass but is broken into 1000 pieces - look like when someone throws a rock at a window without breaking it.

 

[STOJA001]

Sorry, I did a mistake!!

I checked the 3.34 carat again under low mode (3000mw/cm2) = turns into bright Orange as well - I must've forgot to switch mw!
But it does not react to high mode (6000mw/cm2) - it only looks deeper blood red!

I checked;
2.02 Ruby = turns into vivid Orange -reacts to both (3000mw/cm2) & (6000mw/cm2) - no difference.
3.02 Ruby = turns into vivid Orange -reacts to both (3000mw/cm2) & (6000mw/cm2) - no difference.
3.34 Ruby = turns into bright Orange - reacts to only (3000mw/cm2).
4.35 Ruby = turns into slightly Orange -reacts to both (3000mw/cm2) & (6000mw/cm2) - no difference.

And no positive evidence of heat (NTE) under UV either in non of them.
No blue lines, no color difference, no bubbles.

 

[LD]

Here's a photo of my 6.5ct ruby with fluorescence and a better photo of it without fluor.

 

[STOJA001]

Thank you for the pictures! Easier to understand, I really appreciate it!

Your Ruby got fluorescence just like my 3.34 carat

2.02 Ruby = turns into vivid Orange -reacts to both (3000mw/cm2) & (6000mw/cm2) - no difference.
3.02 Ruby = turns into vivid Orange -reacts to both (3000mw/cm2) & (6000mw/cm2) - no difference.
3.34 Ruby = turns into bright Orange - reacts to only (3000mw/cm2).
4.35 Ruby = turns into slightly Orange -reacts to both (3000mw/cm2) & (6000mw/cm2) - no difference.

What's the Origin of your Ruby?
Do you got any idea why the 3.34 carat does react to only (3000mw/cm2) but not to (6000mw/cm2)?

 

[STOJA001]

As you told me about the UV and the Ruby's.... I just wanted to test the Chameleons diamonds I got, never had them under UV before.. And as I noticed, their fluorescence turned into FLAMABLE RED! Never ever seen this in diamonds before!

I've tried the red glass with many different types of stones just to be 150% sure (diamonds, ruby's, sapphire's, demantoid's etc etc) and the red glass does NOT affect the fluorescence at all in any of them. So the color seen in the video is acutal RED fluorescence!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yd1xl0gfpQ

Do you or anyone else know anything about how this affect its value? Please let me know.

 

[Pandora II]

http://www.bukowskis.com/?locale=en

Go and see these people in Stockholm is the advice I have been given.

 

[connyf]

Thank you for your response!
Yes, but as far as I know - a Ruby from example Mozambique is NOT the same as a Tanzanian Ruby at all.
I've seen a lot of different Ruby's - when comparing a Mozambique Ruby to a Tanzanian Ruby - it's like day and night in sparkle etc.

This actually tells me you are not very knowledgeable regarding african ruby and the way things work. A lot of stones mined in Tanzania and Mozambique are indistinguishable from eachother by eysight. So common is this that parcels of rough sold in africa and bought by asian cutting factories ar mixed with stones from all over the continent. The stones are sorted by color and the best stones are often sold as Winza because they have been THE standard for good african rubies since their appearance in the market. I rather buy a top Mozambique ruby than a mediocre Tanzanian.

In defence of top Tanzanians, I consider them in many cases close to as good as the best Burma stuff coming out today. Your stone is not in that category which is why the appraisal of 40K is completely wrong.

If you are concerned with the report from AIGS (which should be fine) I recommend you get one from SSEF in Schweiz. In my opinion one (or a half) notch above GIA.

 

[STOJA001]

Thank you for letting me know Pandora, I really appreciate it!
I will get all mye diamonds and gemstones GIA certified and get in contact with them ASAP!

 

[STOJA001]

I've seen quite a lot of Ruby's, and I dont want to argue, but...

I know I have seen Mozambique Ruby's that is the worse Ruby's I've ever seen.
About 95% of Mozambique Ruby's I've seen is looking very dull, but yes, has nice color.

My Winza Ruby contains some purple, not good, I know.
But it has both Rutile Silks inside (without cracks), it's blood red in middle-strong sunlight and it has good Fluorescence whatsoever.

Take a AAAAA Burma Ruby, AAAAA Winza Ruby, and a AAAAA Mozambique Ruby (no matter the color).
Line them up next to each other and I'm pretty sure you'd see the difference between them.
I've seen a lot of Winza Ruby's with excellent brilliance, sparkle and glittering, but I have never ever seen this in a Mozambique Ruby.

I'm dont intend to be rude or anything, but this is my personal experience only.
I might be wrong, but I will believe this untill someone show me a Mozambique sparkler for the first time.

By the way, the 2.02 has a AIGS Report.
But the 3.34 has a GIA Report.

I do also wonder if you or anyone know about RED Fluorescence in diamonds?
I got 2 of them, I know it's quite uncommon for diamonds.
But I just wonder how it would affect it's value and why does this color happen?

I has a video at YouTube showing how my 5.31 carat Chameleons shows RED Fluorescence.

 

[LD]

I don't believe you can distinguish between rubies as you have stated. There are good and bad from all origins. I have seen horrible Tanzanian rubies and beautiful ones from Mozambique!

In diamonds, many people shy away from fluor. It can have an affect on the diamonds value (irrespective of the colour of the fluor). I have a diamond with red/orange/pink fluor and another that has very very very strong green fluor. My chameleon fluoresces very strongly yellow. Personally I love it but many people don't.

Forgive me but I don't think your chameleons fluoresce red. You appear to have used a red filter and then put a blue light behind it. Fluorescence can't be tested in that manner. You must put the light in front of the stone without anything in between.

You can see the ruby in the background of this photo and the UV pen in front.