Need thoughts...alcohol or no alcohol and need advice!

[beadchick]

Okay, so, I am officially over it with the wedding planning thing. We are having an afternoon tea. The big issue of late is alcohol versus no alcohol. We are having an afternoon tea and fiance's parents are teetotalers (consequently, he and brother both lie to them about consumption of alcohol). So, initially, it was decided, more so to accomodate him, that we wouldn't have alcohol at wedding.

This, of course, did not go over well with any of my friends or family. Family members started complaining about weddings they'd been to with cash bars and that they wouldn't have been so generous if they knew they'd had to pay for their alcohol. Friends started saying they would all bring flasks. One bridesmaid said that she would buy flasks and fill them for all the girls. Another friend told me she was going to buy me one as my something blue. Now mind you, I am a beer snob. IF I had my druthers, I'd have 4-5 different microbrews and essentially would be serving a whole bunch of varieties that nobody would appreciate except me and a couple of my friends. Better yet, I'd find a place, brew my own and serve THAT. At any rate, no one would get it, so we aren't doing that.

The issue is that after hearing all the objections from my side, which is also about 80% of the guest list, my mom decided that since SHE was paying for the WHOLE wedding, and it was an issue with the majority, we would serve wine, beer, and a punch with the afternoon tea. Having said this, NOBODY coming to the wedding is an alcoholic, as far as I know anyway. My mom's feeling, and I am inclined to agree, is that if you want to partake, you can, if not, then non-alcoholic champagne, tea, and lemonade will be provided.

This, obviously, has not gone over well with my fiance. His family is from India, Christian, and as stated before, they completely abstain from alcohol. This is not cultural, it is THEIR choice, and they did not provide alcohol at their younger son's recent wedding. They do not know that my mom wants the minimal set up. Now, his mother drives me a little nuts. They haven't offered one red cent towards paying the cost of the wedding, my mom has had to pull it out of her retirement fund and I intend to pay her back w/ the gifts we receive. So my feeling is, they have no say on what will happen. However, they have also refused to send out my mother's wedding invitation, and are making up their own invitation, which is a re-do, and pretty cheap looking, of what they used at other son's wedding. (Our wedding colors are orange and gold, the invite is lavender.) She is also flying in HER OWN minister to bless us at the wedding, but the man has no legal rights to marry us in the US. She bought me a "wedding sari" and bridal saris are red, well, mine has a maroon blouse, but the majority of the sari is green: I'm going to look like a christmas tree in comparison to the gown that I will wear for the ceremony. She wants me to change immediately after the wedding for the reception. Hmm, $1000 gorgeous wedding gown vs $200 x-mas tree. Not going to happen. Guess what color HER sari is btw? LOL. She attempted to tell me that her new Daughter in law, whom I've never been allowed to speak to would be my matron of honor, when I said no, she said that she would be a bridesmaid instead (I've never friggin met the chick!!!) She has also informed me that I am to send her a program of the ceremony so that she can add HER religious and cultural parts. AND, while FI said that they would pay for the rehearsal dinner, when I spoke to them the other night, they had no knowledge of what a rehearsal dinner is. They intend to invite ALL their relatives to the rehearsal and the wedding, and my mom is worried she is going to get stuck with a $3000 rehearsal dinner bill. FI says that we shouldn't worry about this.

Fiance, for the most part, has a non-confrontational style with his parents. He essentially just doesn't talk to his mom. I, on the other hand, have always been taught to be honest with my parents. I am wishing we'd just eloped. I'm sick of the BMs bitching about their shoe styles, I think I've been accomodating. I didn't make them wear orange, instead, I picked each of their favorite colors and had silk saris sent from India for them. I am sick of all the criticism, the arguing, the insistence that a majority must compromise for a minority, and the lack of respect for MY culture. You can't have a wedding in a foreign country and expect that everyone is going to cow-tow to your wishes, especially, when you haven't offered to fund it. And, of course, under the guises of respecting their culture. These are essentially personal beliefs that are being hoisted upon others. Did I mention that as yet, most people from their side don't even know I exist b/c the invites don't go out til a month before?

I told my mom and FI last night that I don't want to discuss alcohol anymore. Have it, don't have it. Just be prepared that if we don't have it, people are going to show up with flasks of HARD liqour or run across the street to the wine and cheese market and bring it back (which I feel makes me a bad host if they have to do this) or go to the bar across the way.

Is it wrong of me to tell them to decide amongst themselves? I just don't want to be a part of the decision anymore. I don't like conflict. I honestly wouldn't mind going to the wedding and having no clue WHAT beverages were being served. Then I feel like, WTF!? This is MY day, MY DAY. MYYYYYYYYYYYYY DAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. It kind of doesn't feel like that.

Is it okay for me to abstain from the decision making on this one?

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Oh wow beadchick, i don''t really have any advice to give you except to make sure that you have the alcohol at your wedding and to stand your ground with this woman. She doesn''t sound like the kind of person you want to start giving in to. Good luck!!

 

[missy]

Hey there, so sorry you are dealing with this.

It's ridiculous. You should do what you want at your wedding while providing your guests a gracious and pleasant time and since the majority of people who are attending your wedding drink it's a no brainer. Don't you want your guests to have fun and enjoy your wedding? It's a celebration and many people enjoy a drink or 2 at a party and celebration.

On top of it all your mother is paying so it really makes this decision even easier. Your MIL should have no power to make this decision. It is up to you and your FI. But since you are asking us I say provide alcohol for all the above reasons. Don't let your MIL manipulate you like this. You are going to have a long relationship with her so set the tone now. It is her decision not to drink and good for her but not her decision about if others can drink. I really dislike people like this. Why is it her business if others want to drink alcohol? Who does she think she is? This is not her wedding, her party. When it is she can decide. But this is your wedding and your decision! If this were my dh I would tell him to man up!! Luckily though I would never have to do that as he is already strong when it comes to in law (his side) issues!

 

[beadchick]

Well, and the bigger problem is that on this issue, FI will NOT stand up to his mom and is actually pretty adamant about supporting her thoughts.

The other thing is that the guest list from their side has been refused to me. I have no idea how many are coming. Maybe 20-30? Wedding is on May 22nd. They will not send out invites and tell people I exist till they arrive here on April 28th. Caterer needs to know how many are coming by April 24th. And it gets better...

I've met FI's cousin, b/c I had to pass inspection from two members of his family before MIL started being okay with me. FI has been married before, they never met previous wife, refused to go to wedding. They refused to acknowledge me until after he pounded them about it for 6 months!

So, FI's cousin in really nice, very Christian, strict morals, but super sweet. She has two small children and a husband with medical issues. She and I have been emailing. I have been directly instructed by fiance to NOT send invites to anyone on his side b/c they have to come from his parents. When we spoke by email last week, she said she would like an invite b/c she has children and needs to plan in advance. I sent her one. She immediately RSVPed. I then made mistake of telling fiance. He is PISSED!

I think it is disrespectful IN THIS COUNTRY to send an invite to a wedding 3 weeks before and actually expect everyone to drop everything and come running. No matter what your culture, you have to pull your kids out of school, fly cross country to meet some chick your cousin is marrying (that you didn't even know was engaged), drop a bunch of money on the whole thing, and manage to get time off work. I think this is INTENSELY disrespectful to your guests.

But, I am supposed to respect that the invitation needs to come from his parents. Well, my feeling is they should respect their guests, get here earlier, and pass out invites out of respect for them. And now, I'm in trouble...

How is it that weddings do this to people? How can a perfectly nice man get so irrational about the whole thing? I am like, beyond over it.

 

[missy]

Date: 4/10/2010 9:17:25 AM
Author: beadchick
Well, and the bigger problem is that on this issue, FI will NOT stand up to his mom and is actually pretty adamant about supporting her thoughts.


The other thing is that the guest list from their side has been refused to me. I have no idea how many are coming. Maybe 20-30? Wedding is on May 22nd. They will not send out invites and tell people I exist till they arrive here on April 28th. Caterer needs to know how many are coming by April 24th. And it gets better...


I've met FI's cousin, b/c I had to pass inspection from two members of his family before MIL started being okay with me. FI has been married before, they never met previous wife, refused to go to wedding. They refused to acknowledge me until after he pounded them about it for 6 months!


So, FI's cousin in really nice, very Christian, strict morals, but super sweet. She has two small children and a husband with medical issues. She and I have been emailing. I have been directly instructed by fiance to NOT send invites to anyone on his side b/c they have to come from his parents. When we spoke by email last week, she said she would like an invite b/c she has children and needs to plan in advance. I sent her one. She immediately RSVPed. I then made mistake of telling fiance. He is PISSED!


I think it is disrespectful IN THIS COUNTRY to send an invite to a wedding 3 weeks before and actually expect everyone to drop everything and come running. No matter what your culture, you have to pull your kids out of school, fly cross country to meet some chick your cousin is marrying (that you didn't even know was engaged), drop a bunch of money on the whole thing, and manage to get time off work. I think this is INTENSELY disrespectful to your guests.


But, I am supposed to respect that the invitation needs to come from his parents. Well, my feeling is they should respect their guests, get here earlier, and pass out invites out of respect for them. And now, I'm in trouble...


How is it that weddings do this to people? How can a perfectly nice man get so irrational about the whole thing? I am like, beyond over it.

Wow, that is just too much. The fact that your fiance will not support you over his mother is troubling but it is not my place to advise you regarding this as everyone's personal life is different and everyone's relationship is different.
However, I would not put up with this as it is a sign of a larger problem IMO and that is very disrespectful of you. I am a big fan of The Gottman school of thought regarding relationships and successful marriages and perhaps you and your fiance should read his books though I know now is not the ideal time. I just worry about marrying someone who puts his mother first and a mother with such an unyielding and ungenerous a nature.

Do you know why your FI's previous marriage did not work out? Did it have anything to do with his family? Also, it is interesting that he was able to stand up to them when he married his first wife and now he is unwilling to do the same for you regarding your own wedding planning. Big warning signs are going off for me here and my heart goes out to you. I have MIL issues but fortunately my dh has always been supportive of me no matter what which has led to our successful and happy relationship despite the manipulations of his mother and one of my BIL's and his wife. Without my dh's support we never would have lasted let alone thrived.

I wish you all the best in this. You really need to get your FI to be supportive of you. Not his mother. He is marrying you and you need to come first with him.

 

[beadchick]

Date: 4/10/2010 8:57:20 AM
Author: missy
Hey there, so sorry you are dealing with this.


It''s ridiculous. You should do what you want at your wedding while providing your guests a gracious and pleasant time and since the majority of people who are attending your wedding drink it''s a no brainer. Don''t you want your guests to have fun and enjoy your wedding? It''s a celebration and many people enjoy a drink or 2 at a party and celebration.


On top of it all your mother is paying so it really makes this decision even easier. Your MIL should have no power to make this decision. It is up to you and your FI. But since you are asking us I say provide alcohol for all the above reasons. Don''t let your MIL manipulate you like this. You are going to have a long relationship with her so set the tone now. It is her decision not to drink and good for her but not her decision about if others can drink. I really dislike people like this. Why is it her business if others want to drink alcohol? Who does she think she is? This is not her wedding, her party. When it is she can decide. But this is your wedding and your decision! If this were my dh I would tell him to man up!! Luckily though I would never have to do that as he is already strong when it comes to in law (his side) issues!

SHE had her son get married on HER OWN wedding anniversary day! The DIL didn''t even get to have her OWN wedding day. To complicate things, apparently, DIL''s dad DOES have a drinking problem and couldn''t walk her down the aisle d/t an injury I think was related to prescription drugs and alcohol, IMHO. So, now DIL lives w/ husband in apartment above future parent in law''s house and mom thinks they are her saviors b/c they removed her from alcoholic''s home. Son is 28, masters, works in HR, new DIL is 21.

 

[megumic]

I think the first thing you should do is separate the decision power from money. For our planning, giving money does not equal decision-making power. Then they think they can "buy" what they want for the wedding. We told all those contributing that we appreciate their input and we plan to consult with them, but that at the end of our day it''s our decision.

I think you bowing out of the final decision would be the *worst* thing you could do. It''s clear to me that you want alcohol at your wedding. So you should have it.

Also, keep in mind that no matter how annoying FMIL is being right now, you will be her family once this marriage is sealed.

Good luck with all of this. It seems you''re stressing a lot about everything. Think about the most important things and take a stand on those, but leave the stress of the small details behind if you can!

 

[beadchick]

Missy, I am kind of thinking this is why fiance left India 10 years ago and has not moved back! He won't ever verbalize it, though, b/c it is disrespectful. Yeah, I've got the books, the culture is different.

We value individualism, they value family. Their family is pretty traditional, arranged marriages. I actually dragged him to counseling early on. Its pretty much of a wedding issue.

And it's hard. We want to have a big house one day, I think its ideal for the parents to have a son here and a son there. If a medical issue arises, they can come here. FI, however, is adamant that they can vacation, but they CANNOT stay. He will never verbalize why, but read btw the lines.

In his culture, you do NOT stand up to your parents the way we do here. Its ungrateful and disrespectful. For him, standing up to them about being with me was HUGE. I think part of it is, he doesn't want to rock the boat b/c he wants their consent on me so badly.

And, how can anyone ask someone to alienate themselves from their family? If he asked that of me, I just couldn't.

He's kind of a dreamer. In his dream-world, his mom and I are sitting in a garden wearing saris, sipping tea, and he is enjoying the gentle breeze and the smell of the jasmine. LOL! At least he sees the potential for it, I'm the pragmatic one!

 

[missy]

Date: 4/10/2010 9:22:58 AM
Author: beadchick

Date: 4/10/2010 8:57:20 AM

Author: missy

Hey there, so sorry you are dealing with this.



It's ridiculous. You should do what you want at your wedding while providing your guests a gracious and pleasant time and since the majority of people who are attending your wedding drink it's a no brainer. Don't you want your guests to have fun and enjoy your wedding? It's a celebration and many people enjoy a drink or 2 at a party and celebration.



On top of it all your mother is paying so it really makes this decision even easier. Your MIL should have no power to make this decision. It is up to you and your FI. But since you are asking us I say provide alcohol for all the above reasons. Don't let your MIL manipulate you like this. You are going to have a long relationship with her so set the tone now. It is her decision not to drink and good for her but not her decision about if others can drink. I really dislike people like this. Why is it her business if others want to drink alcohol? Who does she think she is? This is not her wedding, her party. When it is she can decide. But this is your wedding and your decision! If this were my dh I would tell him to man up!! Luckily though I would never have to do that as he is already strong when it comes to in law (his side) issues!

SHE had her son get married on HER OWN wedding anniversary day! The DIL didn't even get to have her OWN wedding day. To complicate things, apparently, DIL's dad DOES have a drinking problem and couldn't walk her down the aisle d/t an injury I think was related to prescription drugs and alcohol, IMHO. So, now DIL lives w/ husband in apartment above future parent in law's house and mom thinks they are her saviors b/c they removed her from alcoholic's home. Son is 28, masters, works in HR, new DIL is 21.

Beadchick,
I posted after this so I'm not sure you got a chance to read it yet. I won't repeat myself but big warning bells are going off here for me. It doesn't seem as if your MIL's concern is for her darling son's happiness but for her happiness, and control is the way she yields her power. Don't let her control you and your relationship with your darling fiance. This is much bigger an issue than if alcohol is allowed at your wedding. Set an example here and now and do what you want. Not what she wants. Do not let her control you. And your fiance has a lot to learn if he wants this marriage to work. Please don't let her take over and destroy what you guys have but your FI has to be part of this. You are a team and if you aren't working together you aren't going to work at all.

 

[missy]

Date: 4/10/2010 9:28:50 AM
Author: beadchick
Missy, I am kind of thinking this is why fiance left India 10 years ago and has not moved back! He won't ever verbalize it, though, b/c it is disrespectful. Yeah, I've got the books, the culture is different.


We value individualism, they value family. Their family is pretty traditional, arranged marriages. I actually dragged him to counseling early on. Its pretty much of a wedding issue.


And it's hard. We want to have a big house one day, I think its ideal for the parents to have a son here and a son there. If a medical issue arises, they can come here. FI, however, is adamant that they can vacation, but they CANNOT stay. He will never verbalize why, but read btw the lines.


In his culture, you do NOT stand up to your parents the way we do here. Its ungrateful and disrespectful. For him, standing up to them about being with me was HUGE. I think part of it is, he doesn't want to rock the boat b/c he wants their consent on me so badly.


And, how can anyone ask someone to alienate themselves from their family? If he asked that of me, I just couldn't.


He's kind of a dreamer. In his dream-world, his mom and I are sitting in a garden wearing saris, sipping tea, and he is enjoying the gentle breeze and the smell of the jasmine. LOL! At least he sees the potential for it, I'm the pragmatic one!

I do understand how difficult a situation this is and my heart does go out to you. I think one of the reasons I feel so strongly about this for you is because I went through such a difficult time with my MIL and one of my brothers in law and his wife. So I just want to save you some heartache but also share with you what I have learned. But I realize everyone needs to do it on their way on their time schedule.

I get that you guys are from different cultures but the thing is your marriage should come first and the life the 2 of you are going to build together. You are not living in India and unless you are OK with the way things are you need to implore your fiance to take a hard look at what he really wants. Things are not going to work both ways. There is no way your MIL can be in your marriage with the both of you and have it be successful. Unless you are totally OK with that and it doesn't sound like you are.

And, how can anyone ask someone to alienate themselves from their family? If he asked that of me, I just couldn't.

But you are not asking him to do that. You should be asking him to put you first and if he cannot or will not then you need to either make peace with that and deal with the consequences or you need to reevaluate the whole relationship. If we were in India then I would say fine deal with it but we are not in India and this is your life (your fiance and yours) that she is playing with and it is just not (IMO) acceptable.


My husband and I value family as well as individualism and you can have it both ways but only if the family you are dealing with is reasonable. And that definition differs for everyone ofc. However, you and your fiance are now going to be a family unit unto yourself and that is the most important family now. IMO.

 

[zoebartlett]

Oh wow, I'm not even sure what to say. I do think that your FI needs to stand up to his parents on your behalf. If he won't get involved, I'd email them yourself and explain why you and your family (and FI) have made the decisions you have. Would it be okay for your parents to speak to them, considering your parents are paying? I don't mean confront them or anything, but have a conversation about details and how the planning is going, etc. That way, if your FI's parents DO try to bring up certain things, your parents can deflate the issue.

If his parents aren't paying for the wedding, I don't think they really have a say in how the money is spent. If you and your family want alcohol at your wedding, have it. You could keep it simple -- beer, wine, maybe a few fruity mixed drinks or punches (as you've stated).

I think you should absolutely speak to your future in-laws about the rehearsal dinner. It's not their place to just invite whomever they want. It will be someone else's budget they'll blow, and that's not acceptable.

I'm in complete awe that your FI's parents aren't respecting your culture and that they're making it all about theirs. That floored me when I read it. THEY'RE not the ones getting married!

 

[beadchick]

Date: 4/10/2010 9:58:02 AM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Oh wow, I''m not even sure what to say. I do think that your FI needs to stand up to his parents on your behalf. If he won''t get involved, I''d email them yourself and explain why you and your family (and FI) have made the decisions you have. Would it be okay for your parents to speak to them, considering your parents are paying? I don''t mean confront them or anything, but have a conversation about details and how the planning is going, etc. That way, if your FI''s parents DO try to bring up certain things, your parents can deflate the issue.


If his parents aren''t paying for the wedding, I don''t think they really have a say in how the money is spent. If you and your family want alcohol at your wedding, have it. You could keep it simple -- beer, wine, maybe a few fruity mixed drinks or punches (as you''ve stated).


I think you should absolutely speak to your future in-laws about the rehearsal dinner. It''s not their place to just invite whomever they want. It will be someone else''s budget they''ll blow, and that''s not acceptable.


I''m in complete awe that your FI''s parents aren''t respecting your culture and that they''re making it all about theirs. That floored me when I read it. THEY''RE not the ones getting married!

I don''t know about that, Zoe. She IS wearing the bridal colored sari. Maybe it means nothing, but to me, its the equivalent of wearing a white gown to someone else''s wedding. At any rate, my mom has spoken to FI and patched things up about the alcohol. I have spoken with many of my Indian friends about it, some of whom have actually had me store their alcohol for them when their parents come to visit. I just don''t understand this.

There is NO WAY I can talk to them, and I must say, I''ve seen them interact on the phone, sometimes, there is no way that HE can talk to her either. She informed me the other day she was going to start speaking to me in Tammal. Umm, I don''t speak that language...

I also don''t get how a man who is loving and caring and goes to church with me and tucks me in at night and makes me breakfast in bed and worries about my welfare and would never hurt me or cheat on me (he''s just that kind of guy- I''m not delusional, friends have said this to me about him) and generally defends me on every other thing WONT do it with his mom. My Indian friends say that this is just the way it is and that things will change once I am married. THIS is hard. On the one hand, I feel like he is standing up to her, he''s marrying me, isn''t he? On the other hand, she''s got some issues...I''m willing to bet they are actually diagnosable and psychiatric in nature. Maybe he figures just sweep it under the mat and don''t bother trying to rationalize with her.

WEDDINGS SUCK. When we got engaged end of october, she wanted us married by February. He refused, winter wedding in Chicago, ick. We offered to get married over there and then she could do what she wanted. She decided it was too much trouble b/c of other son''s wedding. Thank GOD he doesn''t want her to live with us! If anyone is dealing with this and has recently gotten engaged and there is any whiff of family drama, I have two words for you: destination wedding.

 

[zipzapgirl]

Mmm, this is pretty tough.
The only thing that I can think of is maybe:

AFTERPARTY

Maybe you could use this rehearsal dinner night to your advantage. Tell FMIL that you''ll be really doing a lot of the indian themed events there and the wedding will be less-Indian? Or use the excuse that your family has a strong heritage which includes drinking and that, while it really isn''t your preference, your parents are insisting. Pull the cultural card on this one: Lack of alcohol would be showing lack of hospitality to the guests and you HAVE to do it to save face.

Hang in there--sounds like this is going to be one long negotiation!

 

[luckynumber]

Date: 4/10/2010 10:39:31 AM
Author: beadchick

Date: 4/10/2010 9:58:02 AM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Oh wow, I''m not even sure what to say. I do think that your FI needs to stand up to his parents on your behalf. If he won''t get involved, I''d email them yourself and explain why you and your family (and FI) have made the decisions you have. Would it be okay for your parents to speak to them, considering your parents are paying? I don''t mean confront them or anything, but have a conversation about details and how the planning is going, etc. That way, if your FI''s parents DO try to bring up certain things, your parents can deflate the issue.


If his parents aren''t paying for the wedding, I don''t think they really have a say in how the money is spent. If you and your family want alcohol at your wedding, have it. You could keep it simple -- beer, wine, maybe a few fruity mixed drinks or punches (as you''ve stated).


I think you should absolutely speak to your future in-laws about the rehearsal dinner. It''s not their place to just invite whomever they want. It will be someone else''s budget they''ll blow, and that''s not acceptable.


I''m in complete awe that your FI''s parents aren''t respecting your culture and that they''re making it all about theirs. That floored me when I read it. THEY''RE not the ones getting married!

I don''t know about that, Zoe. She IS wearing the bridal colored sari. Maybe it means nothing, but to me, its the equivalent of wearing a white gown to someone else''s wedding. At any rate, my mom has spoken to FI and patched things up about the alcohol. I have spoken with many of my Indian friends about it, some of whom have actually had me store their alcohol for them when their parents come to visit. I just don''t understand this.

There is NO WAY I can talk to them, and I must say, I''ve seen them interact on the phone, sometimes, there is no way that HE can talk to her either. She informed me the other day she was going to start speaking to me in Tammal. Umm, I don''t speak that language...

I also don''t get how a man who is loving and caring and goes to church with me and tucks me in at night and makes me breakfast in bed and worries about my welfare and would never hurt me or cheat on me (he''s just that kind of guy- I''m not delusional, friends have said this to me about him) and generally defends me on every other thing WONT do it with his mom. My Indian friends say that this is just the way it is and that things will change once I am married. THIS is hard. On the one hand, I feel like he is standing up to her, he''s marrying me, isn''t he? On the other hand, she''s got some issues...I''m willing to bet they are actually diagnosable and psychiatric in nature. Maybe he figures just sweep it under the mat and don''t bother trying to rationalize with her.

WEDDINGS SUCK. When we got engaged end of october, she wanted us married by February. He refused, winter wedding in Chicago, ick. We offered to get married over there and then she could do what she wanted. She decided it was too much trouble b/c of other son''s wedding. Thank GOD he doesn''t want her to live with us! If anyone is dealing with this and has recently gotten engaged and there is any whiff of family drama, I have two words for you: destination wedding.

beadchick, i don''t think you should assume that things will change when you get married. 99% of the time they don''t.

sounds like she is very reluctant to accept you and will continue to make your life hell. my heart goes out to you.

(i am also indian and speak from experience. i know EXACTLY the kind of woman you''re talking about.)

 

[EmDressage]

beadchick,
Hey, sounds like you need a day of just being able to ''breathe'' and have some reflection and thought time about all of this!!
In regards to the situations you present, I totally am in utter 100% agreement with missy''s comments and advice.
FI needs to stand up for you, regardless. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Also, it IS your wedding, make it yours. Do not worry about what the other family will say, if they are not going to ''play by the rules'' of this culture and your wedding traditions and standards here, then move on, if possible.
You may need to take all of this into counseling, IMHO, before the wedding, and not avoid this, with your FI and the FMIL. FMIL needs to respect you, as you do her, and FI needs to know that YOU come first, before his mother now. No questions. Like others have said, this is not going to be something that is a one-time deal-this is a behaviour and mindset that will transfix to other areas of your relationship and life.
It''s all about respect and trust.
Best of luck.
-Em

 

[D2B]

Oh you have a really rough situation.

She wont magically get less controlling ( in fact more likely to get worse) and FI wont get more assertive just because you are married. What you see now is most likely how it will be if not worse. I dont mean this in a horrid way, but that is reality. If she lives in India you will hopefully wont have to deal with her much and you and you FI can live your life.

I would definately pull all stops out and stand my ground, treat her with respect, give her some token "wins" that are important for her culturally but start as you mean to go on, indicate now you are the in control of your household/wedding not her. From what I have heard some Indian parents expect to visit their sons in the US and will stay months... so set the rules from day one..

nOrmally I would not be so tough, but in some situations you need to quickly see that you will drown, unless you pull out all stops. I have witnessed some horrible MIL interactions where the old belief of the MIL rules the new sons household still is expected to be adhered to, you need to nip it in the bud and get your Fi in line with you, whilst still paying respect to her.

Very hard, but the wedding is only the start, luckily she lives on the other side of the world. I hope I havnt offended you by being so blunt , it is just family matters dont magically solve themselves, you need to fight for it.

Oh, re the alchohol you could have a drinking served area of the wedding ( much like the old smokers section ) where alcohol is served and drunk and on her / inidan family table and other designated area no alchohol is served, and on x tables and other areas drinks can be had. That way you are respecting her wishes for no alchohl for her, but still serving it for those who wish to partake.

I would also be happy that she is having her minister bless the wedding, that must be a good sign , she likes you / the marriage to want it to be blessed by her own minister. It is not unusual to see this with mixed faith weddings. changing in the Sari, perhaphs do a photo shoot for an hour in the sari with that side of the family for their album, and indian friends and then change back into your gown for the reception ( if that is what you wish to wear then) Again, compromise but be in control

You need to know the guest list before hand, I feel that is a power thing, your FI needs to get that for you when you need it, explain about bookings, vendors and costs. This is were he needs to stand up a bit.. I am pretty sure they have a pretty good idea of who is invited.

Sorry for the disjointed rushed message, multitasking here, ] and just popped in to catch up on PS but couldnt help and try and respond.



good luck
d2b

 

[nkarma]

I would like to offer a somewhat different perspecitive here as I am someone who believes that when you marry someone you are also marrying their family. I haven't found a culture on earth where family isn't one of the most important things in your life and yes I agree that you should never give in to unreasonable people, but I do think that making his and your family happy is very important to you, him, and your future life.

Why are you marrying cross-culturally if you don't want to honor some of your fiance's families traditions? Is it really that hard to put on sari or doing something else with will make your fiance's family happy? I am also marrying cross-culturally and have definitely had to compromise on many things but we have discussed what things are important to both of us and which are not. If it were me who also would NEVER have a wedding without alcohol, I would explain to my fiance how important this is to you. I mean he has to know this anyways right? He would then be the adult man I am marrying and would kindly explain to his family what the decision is and why. You each have to work as team when dealing with either of your families but also have an underlying respect for your FI's families. You are going to have to deal with the differences in culture the rest of your life and I hope you guys find a way to deal with them that can make you both happy.

And finally but most importantly YOUR MOTHER IS PAYING FOR THE WEDDING OUT OF HER RETIREMENT FUND!!! That is wrong on so many levels...wow...I could never see myself doing that to my mother and I would much rather get married in a potato sack in the middle of the ugliest place on earth than do that. WOW!

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I hate to say it, but I wanted to add it will not get better. My husband stands up to his mother and did during the wedding, but if he didn''t I wouldn''t have done it. You are going to be his wife. You are choosing each other and if he is not willing to pick you, then there is a problem.

I also have Indian friends and it will not get better. Believe me, when you have kids it will be so much worse you have no idea. If you do not have kids, you will NEVER hear the end of it.

She will only get worse. My MIL has worried. But because my husband would not tolerate the behavior, she cut him out. He has not spoken to her in over a year and frankly, he has never been happier. She will not change, if you want the situation to change, someone else has to; either you to be the way she wants or him in the way they interact.

Have the alcohol, don''t have a rehersal dinner and tell your FI if you do not have a head count by the 23rd for the caterer, they are not invited. It sounds like ke has no idea what it costs or doesn''t think about it because the money is coming from your mom. You can explain to him that his side is welcome if they decide to come after that date that you will not feed them

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Cross cultural marriages are hard, I know because I''m in one. Except I''m the foreign party in my situation, and I''m also very Americanized and am more comfortable standing up to my family when I need to.

That being said, I still let them "get away" with things that my American friends would find "ridiculous". I''ve learned when to pick my battles with them, and when to let them "save face" and act according to their norms and expectations so that they don''t feel like failed or unloved parents. And my parents try too, they really do, but they''re kind of old and set in their ways, so I try not to push them too hard. So if they insist DH pick them up from the airport even though it''s rather inconvenient for him, DH goes (grumbling, but he goes). But if they insist on a decision that would make us unhappy and resentful in the long term, then that''s absolutely NOT ok.

It takes a lot of patience and deep breaths, but to have a chance of working it out, your inlaws need to be open to compromise and change too. You can''t do it all on your own. If they have the mind set that it''s their way or no way, then you have a lot of battles ahead. I really hope your FI can get on board with you soon, because you definitely don''t want it turning it into a You vs. MIL fight.

 

[beadchick]

I''ve read everything you all have said and have to tell you, yes, I appreciate the subtext of "are you making a mistake? you shouldn''t be getting married." I think everyone is concerned that FI isn''t standing up for me, but no one saw him sit in front of his computer with his head in his hands staring at the floor, telling his mother she was being inappropriate when he told her we were dating. I also didn''t mention the two times he went to India and listened to her cry and tell him what a mistake he was making. I should have also given the specifics on his first marriage: she was older than he, an American, and parents refused to acknowledge the marriage OR her existence. Ex-W never did anything to close the gap, either.

I have been essentially, accepted at this point in time. I have talked about this with my Indian friends, ad nauseum, about the situation. One says that she has only ever seen 1 person stand up to his parents about someone. One!!! And, she grew up in India. Another tells me that things will change once I am "the wife." The parents have conceded to the marriage. I think that on some level, though, FI is still terrified that if ANYTHING is done to rock the boat, they will change their minds. I am extremely close to my family and told him when we started dating that I couldn''t marry him if both sets of parents weren''t on board. So, I guess this is what I get. Its not that he won''t stand up for me, he already has and is afraid of now being a disrespectful person to his parents. They do talk to me, FMIL more than FFIL, but I always have to initiate.

FI has agreed to the alcohol thing, after discussion with my mother. The invite thing, we can''t change. FI says that parents will pay for rehearsal dinner but will invite their whole side of family (so I''m going to invite out of town guests, so THERE!

). I will also wear sari, but, I did go and buy one that I LIKED for rehearsal dinner. I think that what is most upsetting is that I never wanted this. When we got engaged, I pretty much just wanted the dress and said that we should go on a cruise w/ both sets of parents and our brothers and not have all the anxiety and stress and ridiculousness. This is not MY wedding. And unfortunately, weddings are like trains running down hill.

This WHOLE experience has been rough. And now, they are going to come over. I am worried about having to stand up to her b/c I can''t handle not doing it for too long (I''ll blow). And she''s not going to like it, but what else can I do? I know I have to cope with it, it''s just, I get so frustrated sometimes. This isn''t the wedding I wanted. And as far as living with compromise, I''m catholic, I''m NOT getting married in the church. That''s a HUGE deal to me! So trust me, I am compromising.

 

[beadchick]

And with my mother taking money out of her retirement fund, she''s getting ALL the cash gifts we get AND, FI and I will both be paying her off over the next year. I TOLD her NOT to do this. We are keeping it under $10,000 and I''m helping w/ things as much as I can. What really irritates me is that FI''s parents are spending their money on gold jewelry for me, which is traditional, which is too ornate to wear ever again, and haven''t offered her anything to help towards the wedding. I don''t understand THIS, especially when we would have waited longer to GET married and been in a better situation financially at that time to pay for it ourselves! But, HIS mom decided we needed to be married b/c a year-long engagement would look unseemly.

 

[nkarma]

Date: 4/11/2010 7:45:21 PM
Author: beadchick
And with my mother taking money out of her retirement fund, she's getting ALL the cash gifts we get AND, FI and I will both be paying her off over the next year. I TOLD her NOT to do this. We are keeping it under $10,000 and I'm helping w/ things as much as I can. What really irritates me is that FI's parents are spending their money on gold jewelry for me, which is traditional, which is too ornate to wear ever again, and haven't offered her anything to help towards the wedding. I don't understand THIS, especially when we would have waited longer to GET married and been in a better situation financially at that time to pay for it ourselves! But, HIS mom decided we needed to be married b/c a year-long engagement would look unseemly.

I don't know what your family background is as far as having your parents pay for things. It looks like they are very generous to take that money out of their retirement with all the penalties that incurs instead of having you take out a loan. I wouldn't be offended by your fiance's parents not offering to pay though. These days more and more couples are paying for their own wedding. I don't get why someone who is hopefully self supporting adult and ready to make the commitment of marriage wouldn't pay for the wedding themselves and then consider anything else beyond that to be a generous gift. Sounds like you have one generous set of parents and two who care for both of you so in the end, look at the positive side Oh and it looks his parents are paying for the rehearsal dinner, how nice of them!

 

[PumpkinPie]

I''m so sorry this is so stressful for you beadchick! I can''t imagine this situation - but I''m with the other posters who say if you don''t stand up to her now (or insist that you FI is clear that he is choosing you as his new family unit) that things will never improve

 

[D2B]

beadchick,

As a christian myself, I understand the stress of not getting married in the church may cause you... cant you two with your mum, go to your local church and get the religoious ceremony done, so you are married in the eyes of god and so forth. Have you discussed this with your priest, what are your options there?

 

[beadchick]

Date: 4/11/2010 8:18:37 PM
Author: nkarma

Date: 4/11/2010 7:45:21 PM

I don''t know what your family background is as far as having your parents pay for things. It looks like they are very generous to take that money out of their retirement with all the penalties that incurs instead of having you take out a loan. I wouldn''t be offended by your fiance''s parents not offering to pay though. These days more and more couples are paying for their own wedding. I don''t get why someone who is hopefully self supporting adult and ready to make the commitment of marriage wouldn''t pay for the wedding themselves and then consider anything else beyond that to be a generous gift. Sounds like you have one generous set of parents and two who care for both of you so in the end, look at the positive side Oh and it looks his parents are paying for the rehearsal dinner, how nice of them!

So, this is a MAJOR issue for me. I feel extremely guilty for my mom paying for the wedding. I DID NOT want her to do that. However, I am saddled with over $200,000 of medical school debt, have a mortgage to pay and am a resident, so I make about 40 per year; which in Chicago, I''m here to tell you, isn''t much. As far as her pulling money out of the retirement fund, I adamantly told her NOT to do this. She decided to do it and not tell me anyway; I found out a month later. As far as family dynamics go, I AM the retirement fund and will be taking over her mortgage as soon as I have a real income. I have made this abundantly clear to my mom since I entered med school. I paid for all my college on my own, and even got a stress fracture as part of the bargain. I didn''t ask for help for paying for medical school (while many I know did) and as a "self supporting adult," do not ask for help with my other bills. I am upset about the situation with the future in laws b/c they are spending thousands on jewelry that I neither want or need and I can''t bring it up b/c it would be a form of rejection. I am also getting up on my wedding day at 5 and putting together flower arrangements and have done every other thing I can think of to save money.

Nkarma, I feel extremely defensive about your statements. Part of the reason this WHOLE situation has been miserable for me is that I don''t want the money. I don''t want her to pay for it. I feel extremely horrible about anyone spending money on this: I''ve paid as much as I can from my end. FI paid for rings, he is managing his parents and brother''s trips over AND, in reality, my guess is that HE will be the one writing the check for the engagement dinner. Neither of us can really take loans at this point due to my school loans and FI has a house that he is trying to repair after the renters he had lent it to flooded it and left approx $40,000 worth of damage, which his insurance half-paid and then dropped him- so his money is going for other things. The engagement happened a year earlier than I thought. Trust me, I''d love to wait another year till we were more financially stable, but according to MIL, this looks bad. They never even acknowledged my existence at other son''s wedding and we were already engaged! I was told that I needed to be married in 3 months, he managed to push it to 7 b/c I wanted more time. Next year I can moonlight and I intend to work my ass off to pay my mother back for everything. He already is trying to get other jobs/contracts. If I thought I could manage it and I wouldn''t get told no by parents, I could cancel it tomorrow and get married on the beach, like I wanted in the first place (but, apparently, you have to compromise). I''ve paid for many of the bridesmaids dresses and for the flower girls dress. I''ve paid half the photographer, I''ll pay for the photos. I''ve done EVERYTHING as economically as I can think of. I never wanted this. I feel horrible that people even have to spend money to come to this wedding at all. So please, Nkarma, please do not insinuate that I am a brat for being pissed about a lousy situation for a wedding that I essentially never intended to have and sure as hell never wanted to have to rely on somebody else to pay for it. Thank you for the support!

 

[beadchick]

Date: 4/11/2010 10:24:05 PM
Author: D2B
beadchick,


As a christian myself, I understand the stress of not getting married in the church may cause you... cant you two with your mum, go to your local church and get the religoious ceremony done, so you are married in the eyes of god and so forth. Have you discussed this with your priest, what are your options there?

We actually can''t. He has to have an annulment, which takes approximately a year and involves a "marriage tribunal." You also have to be a member of your parish for at least a year to be married in it. Hence, no church swapping. I think the kiss of death was when FI (who goes to church with me weekly) and I spoke to our pastor who said "Church of India, is that like a cult?"

That pretty much did it for both of us.

Do you ever feel like the voices are telling you to just end it? LOL!

 

[SAPHIRINA]

Date: 4/12/2010 12:32:45 AM
Author: beadchick

Nkarma, I feel extremely defensive about your statements. Part of the reason this WHOLE situation has been miserable for me is that I don''t want the money. I don''t want her to pay for it. I feel extremely horrible about anyone spending money on this: I''ve paid as much as I can from my end.

Beadchick, I completely understand your feelings and concerns with your mother spending money on your wedding. But, may I just point out that for a lot of parents, it is very important to fund at least a part of their child''s wedding. And, I am sure that the last thing your mother wants is for you to feel miserable over her desire to help pay for the wedding. The fact that your mother didn''t tell you about pulling money out of her retirement fund shows that she wants to be part of this despite your concerns over her finances.

You wrote that you will be taking over her mortgage as soon as you are able, and that''s wonderful! But, right now, she is able to pay for the wedding, and you are not. In my view, there is nothing wrong with accepting your mother''s help when you need it, as she will accept your help when you are able to provide it. Families help each other in times of need, and there''s absolutely nothing wrong with that!

In the upcoming months, I will be quitting my current job and moving to a new apartment. My father will help me out for a month or two while I look for work. I am very graciously accepting his help with every intention of paying him back when I settle in and start working again. At first, I felt very guilty about this arrangement, and agonized about it for weeks, but after talking to him about my concerns, I realized that it''s ok to let family help you when you need it, as long as you are responsible and don''t take advantage of their generosity.

And, for what it''s worth, I am very sorry to hear that you are not getting the wedding that you want. I wish there was a way for you to have your dream wedding without offending anybody. Maybe for your first anniversary, you could recreate your dream ceremony and renew your vows

 

[beadchick]

Date: 4/12/2010 3:15:37 AM
Author: Saphirina

Date: 4/12/2010 12:32:45 AM

And, for what it''s worth, I am very sorry to hear that you are not getting the wedding that you want. I wish there was a way for you to have your dream wedding without offending anybody. Maybe for your first anniversary, you could recreate your dream ceremony and renew your vows

Saphirina, I am NEVER getting married again! This is the joke between me and FI (good thing he''s a good guy! Confirmed by ppl who would tell me if he weren''t, but I know it anyway). He and mom conspired and actually found an amazing package deal for honeymoon at a great rate that we got an upgrade on, so we are going to actually get to have a honeymoon after this (I think he figures I''ll go crazy if we don''t leave after wedding). FI regularly works away from home and from 7AM til 11 at night lately (too bad he''s salaried)! This is also partially necessary as Parent-ILs are going to be living in our condo during the time they are here. No, I am not a martyr, but I have a girlfriend who said, ''ooh, come stay w/ me, It''ll be so much fun'' and it seemed safer for them b/c if you know Chi-town, you cross the wrong street and well... Plus, she has a gym in her bldg and no TV and calm, peace, quiet...ahh.

Anyway, I keep telling FI how excited I am about the honeymoon, I think he is at the point where he understands why I just want the wedding to be over and go on a trip together. My joke for many years w/ friends has been that when I get married, it''ll be on the beach in my swimsuit. No fuss, no muss.

For both sets of parents, this didn''t go over well. My mom eloped and all I ever heard from GM was how upset my GF was that he didn''t get to give my mom away. Consequently, she and my brother will both walk me down the aisle. I think she''s at the point where she would be horrified if she didn''t have this right.

As far as the church stuff, FI is planning to get annulment done after all the wedding craziness is over. We''ll get the wedding garb out next year and get the marriage consecrated/blessed in the Church for our 1 year. Then WE will take ourselves and about 10 others out to dinner, where everyone will sit at the same table and eat dinner. That''s all.

 

[purselover]

Wow I must say I did not expect all this about the topic of alcohol! But seriously I have a few points:

1.) Please do not rely on your Indian friends who are telling you it will change once you get married. You should never ever no matter what get married thinking your spouse will suddenly be different. Please assume he may never stand up to his family as much as you''d like and his parents will suddenly be less demanding. I cannot stress enough you shouldn''t think once the wedding''s over everything will be better! I''m sorry for "beating the dead horse" this is just a very dangerous mindset to have about your FI.

2.) Money -1st your mom and money - I understand your mom took out her retirement against your wishes/knowledge BUT you did knowingly and willingly decide to spend it -so own it. No point defending or feeling bad about it and I think it''s great you want to pay your mom back so really don''t be so down on yourself!

Your FI''s parents and money - yes it''d be great if instead of spend x amount on jewelry you don''t care about they put it towards photography or something but they didn''t! Honestly they don''t owe you anything YOU decided to get married. Stop choosing to see what they didn''t do and start appreciating what they are doing. They bought you that jewelry because it''s tradition and they wanted to share it with you and they''re doing something nice to show just how much they accept you! Same thing with flying in whoever is blessing your marriage. That''s hardly not contributing anything IMHO. Just because it''s not what you want doesn''t mean you can''t try to appreciate it a little more. Just for reference my inlaws really didn''t do anything not even a rehearsal dinner and it while it would''ve been nice if they offered I certainly don''t hold it against them.

You and your FI and money - yes I see you''re trying to keep things inexpensive and you wish you''d had a longer engagement to save and so on and so on, but you and your FI decided to get engaged and married in 7 months. You could''ve decided to push off engagement until you guys could better afford a wedding but you didn''t! I understand your FIL''s wanted a short engagement but you did not need to agree to it, you are an adult and could''ve said no. Please start accepting responsibility for the role you play in this!

3.) It''s not your dream wedding and you wish you just eloped - you are preaching to the choir! Trust me when I say I hear you, my wedding was NOTHING like I wanted, there''s a big however though! However while I do feel for you, you did decide to go along with this! I really really think you need to start taking responsibility for things. The fact is the wedding''s going forward and you can either complain how unfair it is or do the best you can with where you are - and if that means alcohol will make it more the wedding you want then have it! I understand you''re venting but a pity party will only get you so far, start deciding what you need in order to be happier (not necessarily thrilled but happier) with the wedding and tell your FI why you need it and how you''ve compromised thus far.

I really wish you the best of luck - I know wedding''s bring out the crazy in everyone and it''s a horribly stressful time but please try to be at least semi-happy with everything going on. Just this weekend DH commented to me how even though it was less than 4 months ago our wedding seems so far away now and wasn''t it so silly how adamant he was about doing everything his way? Leading up to the wedding if you told me I would come back from our honeymoon okay with everything that happened and at peace with the wedding we had - I would''ve said you were far too optimistic, but it happened! I hope it happens for you too.

 

[nkarma]

Hey beadchick, I am sorry I offended you and obviously have not much knowledge of you, your FI, or the situation.

I do however come from the school of thought that 1) Adults should pay for their own weddings, cars, rent, etc... It is nice if parents can contribute a small amount, but I like earning and paying for things myself. Your initial post about expecting your FI's parents to offer money definitely sounded a little demanding and expectant to me. I don't think it's right for anyone to expect someone else to give them money no matter who they are. They can spend it on jewelry for you if they like because it's their money and also something that brides in India may treasure more than money for the wedding. Like purselover said, this is YOUR wedding that you decided to have. Why would anyone else pay for it? I also believe 2) If you can't afford it, don't buy it**. This isn't coming from some rich snobby woman who has been given anything, rather the opposite. A lot of people don't agree with me on this I know and in the end it is your life, so do what you think it is right.

I am very glad you found a solutions for the alcohol thing. I definitely sympathize as there would be no way in hell there would not be alcohol at my wedding. Others have said you have a tough road ahead of you. I think this is a good issue to come up so that the two of you will have a system and know how to deal with this for the many similar incidents that will occur in the future. I agree with everyone else that your fiance has to be the go between on whatever you decide together and call off the attack dog if she acts like one. One suggestion for the wedding would be to try to win some favor with her. Obvisiously some of things she is asking you to do, you are vehemently against. But I am sure there are some small things that you wouldn't mind doing that would go a long way to make her happy like wear the sarang the last hour or two or make a small toast in her native language. Remember if she is happy, your FI is happy.

**small print: that is unless it's going into student debt to get you a degree that will double or triple your earning potential for the rest of your life.